Foolhardy Wikipedia edit

It means "The Goonish Shive."

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Foolhardy Wikipedia edit

Postby Ambi on Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:56 pm

A few days ago, I've started to change the EGS Wikipedia page, first little stuff like moving secondary characters around and putting them in groups, then progressed to change and add some snippets of data about them...

Tonight I went and changed the head. The new one is larger than the previous one, but to put it together most of the old went out of the window, though I tried to preserve parts. Can some of you look at the EGS entry and make sure that I didn't edit vital stuff out and wrong stuff in?

Thanks!
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Postby Tuitsuro on Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:23 pm

The mention of 9/11 and the Iraq war could be construed as ambiguous (albeit unfortunately). I see what you're aiming at however; matching current events with comic events, such as a militant fanaticism in the real world with a similar fanaticism in EGS; it's just that I'm not sure if it's really an objective reference in regard to Wikipedia's (admittedly arbitrary) rules. But that's just my opinion, I don't think it's necessarily bad to leave it.

Personally, I like the change. There's been a need for a bit larger introduction. Good job! :)
Last edited by Tuitsuro on Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Matty88 on Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:24 pm

I saw that earlier, I thought that the Goo should be moved to 'other dimention characters' instead of 'other strange characters' that was the only thing I saw though.
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Postby Ambi on Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:29 pm

Tuitsuro wrote:The mention of 9/11 and the Iraq war could be construed as ambiguous (albeit unfortunately). I see what you're aiming at however; matching current events with comic events, such as a militant fanaticism in the real world with a similar fanaticism in EGS; it's just that I'm not sure if it's really an objective reference in regard to Wikipedia's (admittedly arbitrary) rules. But that's just my opinion, I don't think it's necessarily bad to leave it.
I didn't know how to put it... I originally just wanted to say EGS was set in a sort of present-day world, then realized that the real present is deeply influenced by 9/11 and Iraq, and then remembered that while EGS has neither, it still had dangerous fanaticism which was even religious in nature... I wish I could have put it better.

Personally, I like the change. There's been a need for a bit larger introduction. Good job! :)
Thanks a lot.
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Postby GA Jedi Knight on Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:31 pm

I do believe that the part about the Iraq war and 9/11 needs to be edited out. It would be sufficient to simply say that the comic is similar to the present day world, but does not take real-world events into account. Once that is established, then you can mention that the EGS universe has its own set of fanatics (not just religious).
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Postby eternaljwh on Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:29 pm

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Postby Joeldipops on Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:36 am

I know that now it's been edited out, this is no longer relevant, but what evidence is there to say that there was no 9/11 in EGS Dimension? It's not like there have been any news reports or anything on-panel.
I'm really puzzled as to where you got that from,
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Postby somercet on Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:38 am

Ahh... Wikipedia.

Lemme ask something. Has Dan mentioned the Shoah? Stalin's planned famines and purges? The Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution? Francis Gary Powers and the U-2? Vietnam? The Iranian Hostage Crisis? Chechnya? Space Shuttle disasters? Earthquakes? Tsunamis? Floods?

No?

Elections? Trials? Wars?

No?

Then put down, "EGS is neither an editorial strip nor does it comment upon current events."

You know: a neutral point of view.
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Postby Jake R on Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:07 am

Whatever you do, make sure you keep a back-up. Apparently, wikipedia is kicking out webcomic pages all over the place.
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Not that again.

Postby Kizor on Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:48 am

For the last several months, a few editors have been nominating webcomic articles that don't match verification and notability requirements for deletion. The problem is that verification is very hard to attain for an exclusive online art form that's about twelve years old, but this process has been slow and more or less limited to low-profile targets.

Over the last week or so, there's been a chain reaction: someone nominated Ugly Hill, so its author sent a horde of fanboys over to the deletion discussion, full of sound and fury and with no idea about the things they were supposed to be discussing, so they did such things as writing "this is my vote and you demand that you count it" under a great big red "THIS IS NOT A BALLOT" banner. This really got up the nose of a new editor, who nominated three others (two of which are surviving and the third one hardly deserves an article yet anyway), so now the word is that there's some sort of massive action against webcomics going on.

Anyway, as a prominent Keenspot comic, with print collections on Amazon etc., EGS is safe. If it somehow isn't we can still retrieve a copy even after it's deleted for migration to Comixpedia.
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Postby Ambi on Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:32 am

Umm Kizor - they have even deleted the article of Misfile, which is still listed under "OK comic entries" in the WikiProject Webcomics (now pointing into the void) and is most of the time in the top 10 of thewebcomiclist (on which there are over 8300 webcomics). If Misfile isn't notable, how many webcomics are left?
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And what's with all the carrots
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
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Or maybe midgets
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Postby Lomgren on Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:26 am

It might be a good idea to go ahead and fork it and put it over on Comixpedia. Because Evil Inc. and Superosity (it still has a deletion notification, take a look! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superosity ) were deleted at one point in time in the past week or so. They also deleted the Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Cartoo ... oice_Award ) to facilitate deleting webcomics.

They've also deleted Semi-Pro Football in the past, and there still isn't a page that points to it, though you can try to find out information on it.

I'm afraid we're starting to see the ugly side of wikipedia.
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Postby B.T. Isaac on Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:30 am

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Postby eternaljwh on Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:37 am

Ubersoft Inc ran a strip on theirs being deleted, ya might've caught in the newsbox.

...

Okay, now deleting the WCCA just seems mean.

Sneaky, underhanded suggestion [may or may not work]:

Catch and archive webcomic wikipedia entries before deletion.

Wait until this blows over, a few months down.

Put them back up.
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Postby eternaljwh on Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:46 am

Ambi wrote:Umm Kizor - they have even deleted the article of Misfile, which is still listed under "OK comic entries" in the WikiProject Webcomics (now pointing into the void)
Actually, this seems like a better starting point, pointing out that they've deleted stuff that those in charge of the section thought important.
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Postby Tuitsuro on Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:49 am

Well, I backed up the most recent one, if anyone else wants to it'd probably be a good idea.

Actually, the Webcomics deletion thing may be just the tip of the iceberg; Wikipedia's been mass deleting lots of articles in order to conserve their server space. There's been news articles flying about the 'net recently saying that they may even have to shut down in another 3-4 months due to financial problems, but that's neither here nor there with the EGS article.
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Postby Ambi on Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:49 am

Tuitsuro wrote:Well, I backed up the most recent one, if anyone else wants to it'd probably be a good idea.

Actually, the Webcomics deletion thing may be just the tip of the iceberg; Wikipedia's been mass deleting lots of articles in order to conserve their server space. There's been news articles flying about the 'net recently saying that they may even have to shut down in another 3-4 months due to financial problems, but that's neither here nor there with the EGS article.

That seems to be a very valid reason... but the way cutbacks are done, with inconsistent decisions on notability without mentioning the crisis only leads to Wikipedia losing more sympathies.

I'm playing with the idea to split up the EGS article, into "El Goonish Shive" with reduced, more concentrated info about the main characters and events and "Cast and world of El Goonish Shive" with the remaining information from the current article. Would Wikipedia react to that with deletion of at least one of the then two articles, and would Comixpedia tolerate two articles for the same webcomic?
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Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses
And what's with all the carrots
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
Bunnies, bunnies, it must be bunnies
Or maybe midgets
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Postby cidhighwind767 on Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:11 am

They're deleting all of them and I still see useless entries in wikipedia.
The other day I actually saw one explaining the history of the "Pie Vs Cake" rivalship (Don't ask!).
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Postby Lomgren on Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:40 am

Ambi wrote:That seems to be a very valid reason... but the way cutbacks are done, with inconsistent decisions on notability without mentioning the crisis only leads to Wikipedia losing more sympathies.

I'm playing with the idea to split up the EGS article, into "El Goonish Shive" with reduced, more concentrated info about the main characters and events and "Cast and world of El Goonish Shive" with the remaining information from the current article. Would Wikipedia react to that with deletion of at least one of the then two articles, and would Comixpedia tolerate two articles for the same webcomic?

That's just asking for easier deletion on Wikipedia.
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Postby xyzzy_n on Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:04 am

eternaljwh wrote:Sneaky, underhanded suggestion [may or may not work]:

Catch and archive webcomic wikipedia entries before deletion.

Wait until this blows over, a few months down.

Put them back up.
If your goal is to have the articles deleted without discussion and protected against reposting, it
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Postby Ambi on Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:07 am

xyzzy_n wrote:
Ambi wrote:I'm playing with the idea to split up the EGS article, into "El Goonish Shive" with reduced, more concentrated info about the main characters and events and "Cast and world of El Goonish Shive" with the remaining information from the current article. Would Wikipedia react to that with deletion of at least one of the then two articles,
Yes, the second one would be deleted. For that matter, if the current article goes to AFD, the first thing I do will be to remove the lists of stuff that is only interesting to those who have already read the comic. Right now, the only thing in the article showing any kind of objective importance is that EGS is hosted on Keenspot and finding reliable secondary sources about EGS is rather more important than making sure every character is documented. (The article does not even have a
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And what's with all the carrots
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
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Or maybe midgets
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Postby Lomgren on Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:11 am

I think if wikipedia continues along the road that it's going, it's going to edit itself into... what's the word that I'm looking for... nonrelevance.
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Postby xyzzy_n on Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:11 pm

Ambi wrote:I was going to try to improve the EGS entry by a series of changes, attempting to bring it closer to Wikipedia rules. Splitting up the entry in a main entry and an expansion entry was meant to make the main entry much shorter and easier to document while keeping only information in the expansion entry that was part of the old article anyway.
I understand; however, in summary style, each detailed article must actually be a proper article. I do not see how that could work in this case (but you
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Postby Lomgren on Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:34 pm

Some people believe that wikipedia should be about information. And I am one of them. Why shouldn't people want to go to wikipedia to learn about webcomics? And what happens when they don't find them there, because wikipedia editors delete them?
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Postby Sqauto on Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:52 pm

Didn't Dan say that the after party is part of HG?
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