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Postby Josh Phillips on Thu May 03, 2001 12:52 am

Flurf, it's actually a difference of IP addresses. Somebody try a traceroute on avalonhigh.com, and see if it matches keen*.com.<P>JOSH.
<P>------------------
Josh Phillips - <A HREF="mailto:josh@avalonhigh.com">josh@avalonhigh.com</A>
Avalon - <A HREF="http://www.avalonhigh.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.avalonhigh.com</A>
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Postby vision8 on Thu May 03, 2001 12:53 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Asha:
<B> Thanks. I was able to view Avalon. However, comics just aren't worth it.
I'll go read the damn newspaper if I have to.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But you wouldn't be able to read Avalon in the newspaper! Asha, what are you thinking?!?!
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Postby flurf on Thu May 03, 2001 1:23 am

thanks, josh! modern technology can be twisty, too... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>i ran a tracert on avalonhigh.com, and going from the 3rd address the ips are as follows:<P> 3 11 ms 11 ms 10 ms dist5-vlan50.lsan03.pbi.net [64.161.163.193]
4 11 ms 10 ms 10 ms edge1-ge2-0.lsan03.pbi.net [206.13.29.205]
5 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms sl-gw15-ana-6-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.192.61]
6 12 ms 12 ms 11 ms sl-bb21-ana-12-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.1.209]
7 19 ms 18 ms 19 ms sl-bb20-sj-6-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.18.218]
8 72 ms 73 ms 74 ms sl-bb22-rly-12-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.9.217]
9 73 ms 73 ms 72 ms sl-gw19-rly-9-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.7.136]
10 75 ms 75 ms 74 ms sl-affinity-10-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.255.106]
11 73 ms 73 ms 74 ms v3.gi15-1.sky6509.skynetweb.com [208.231.4.4]
12 75 ms 73 ms 80 ms <A HREF="http://www.avalonhigh.com" TARGET=_blank>www.avalonhigh.com</A> [64.23.81.90]<P>both the keenspot main page and avalonhigh.com go through skynetweb.com [whatever that is]. as you can see, nothing timed out...<P>flurf
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Postby Kaoru on Thu May 03, 2001 1:32 am

As you requested, Josh, here is a trace of <A HREF="http://www.avalonhigh.com:" TARGET=_blank>www.avalonhigh.com:</A>
<IMG SRC="http://dreamsreflections.keenspace.com/images/avalontrace.gif">
Not only does line 13 time out, but line 14 is identical to Keenspot/space's route. So we have identified Avalon's route bottleneck.
EDIT: You'll also notice that the ping rates are around 200ms(1/5 of a second) for <A HREF="http://www.avalonhigh.com," TARGET=_blank>www.avalonhigh.com,</A> which considering that 300ms(1/3 of a second) is pretty damn slow, you can see how the bottleneck is affecting loading time.<P>BTW: I failed to mention that the first half of the route will vary greatly from user to user, but since alter.net is owned by UUNet which is owned by WorldCom (a global ISP, web hosting, business networking company) that from line 10 on the route list is fairly accurate.<p>[This message has been edited by Kaoru (edited 05-03-2001).]
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Postby Asha on Thu May 03, 2001 6:07 am

I haven't been able to look at comics at all the past days. IF I WAS DESPERATE, I'M SURE IT WOULD ONLY TAKE 1 hour PER COMIC.<P>GAH.<P>Am I the only one with these issues?
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Postby Asha on Thu May 03, 2001 6:09 am

No, I'm not! WHEE!
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Postby PercentMan on Thu May 03, 2001 6:27 am

Yeah, I enjoy reading comic strips from the top down, one line at a time, at the rate of about one word every seven minutes...<P>I could draw my <I>own</I> strip faster than it took to load half my daily reads today. What's the leegin' deal?<P>I don't see why anybody would ever choose to host on Keenspot. They're ugly, it takes <B>forever</B> to load half the time, they slap nasty ad banners all over your site, and then they whine and complain ("Bitch bitch bitch!") when you don't generate enough clickthroughs.<P>Oh, and did I mention they're <I><B>SLOW?!?!</B></I>
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Postby Hai-Etlik on Thu May 03, 2001 6:28 am

I seem to be getting lag both from keenspot inparticular AND my connection in general. (keenspot is just much worse. I found that if I could just get the image box to appear, and then right clicked and selected "View Image" and viewed it seperatly I was able to view it in a reasonable amount of time.<P>------------------
Hai-Etlik Dragon
-==UDIC==-
-----BEGIN AVALON CODE BLOCK-----
Version 1.0
R++ S--- F>++ IRC>+ FA--- GA-- FF- SN? LY- F{C++ N} D{R I--} PSL-{C N} P{CJ+} a+ d- B[s{h-:w:r-}:eBg:hBrL] e>++ h! !y L{Duncan,BC,CA} !!W
------END AVALON CODE BLOCK------
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Postby Asha on Thu May 03, 2001 7:05 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hai-Etlik:
<B>I seem to be getting lag both from keenspot inparticular AND my connection in general. (keenspot is just much worse. I found that if I could just get the image box to appear, and then right clicked and selected "View Image" and viewed it seperatly I was able to view it in a reasonable amount of time.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks. I was able to view Avalon. However, comics just aren't worth it. <P>I'll go read the damn newspaper if I have to.
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Postby Dynonychus on Thu May 03, 2001 7:50 am

Yeah... I've been having some problems as well. I wasn't able to d/l todays comic at ALL. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/frown.gif"><P>Thank gods for davey3000 and his coloured versions. Kudos! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"><P>------------------
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Postby not damonk on Thu May 03, 2001 8:17 am

reasons to host on Keenspot/Space:<P>1) it's <B>FREE</B>.<P>2) very useful features for the cartoonist (e.g., Webalizer, auto-updating, PNG support, etc.).<P>3) a large base reader pool.<P>4) loads of free publicity.<P>5) growing name recognition in the non-comics world, and some media attention.<P>6) a fairly decent (spot) to very tight-knit (Space) cartoonist community.<P>7) Teri Crosby (if you've ever had to deal with her, you <I>know</I> what I mean).<P>8) it's <B>FREE</B>.<P>...
problems with Keenspot/Space:<P>1) increasingly frequent server problems<P>2) erratic d/l speeds<P>3) decreasing revenue (though that's more a banner thing, not a Keen thing)<P>4) insert specifics here<P>....<P>In my opinion, the bottom line is that like it or not, KeenSpot/Space is one of the best <I><B>FREE</I></B> webhosts out there. Could you imagine <I>Avalon</I> or any other of your favorite strips being on Geocities, NBCi, Angelfire, or FortuneCity? Trust me, this is <I>much</I> faster (usually) than those alternatives.<P>Unfortunately, a lot of cartoonists just cannot afford to pay for their own server. Nick Yu spends a lot of his hard-earned cash each month to this end (you wouldn't <I>believe</I> how much!), and I applaud and admire him for it, but not everyone can afford to do so, for a varying number of reasons.<P>It's very expensive to run a comic on your own.<P>All I, as a cartoonist wannabe, can do is hope that the Keen problems smooth out eventually. I'm sure that a lot of fellow cartoonists feel the same way.<P>But again, it's one of those "no one is really getting paid for this" things, so let's please all be patient and hope for the best.<P>Believe you me, I read 150-some comics daily, and I don't have the time to waste 15 minutes per slow-loading comic, either. But I know that the comics aren't going anywhere, and even if I can't read them today, or tomorrow, there's always the next day. <P>Or the next.<P>I plan on living for a good long time yet, so I'm in no rush to get my favorite readings done -- they'll be there again eventually, and I'll love 'em just as much. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"><P> <P>------------------
"I'm not wearing an evil goatee. Oh... you mean <I>this</I> evil goatee? Yes. Yes, I am."
~~not damonk<P><A HREF="http://framed.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>NotFramed! The NotComic!</A>
(no Riboflavin in this one at all!)
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Postby Jen Aside on Thu May 03, 2001 8:54 am

Because I grew to hate SimpleNet.<P>The only thing I really hate is that everyone updates when I would really like to update. (Well, except the ones who update three hours later, when I would rather they update three hours sooner.) Maybe I should try to change it to just before everyone updates, rather than have it wait until 5 a.m. EST...
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Postby flurf on Thu May 03, 2001 10:36 am

yeah, slow connection time does suck, but i'd take it as a good sign for other issues. it's evidence that keenspot is getting the traffic that it needs for it to be able to stay free or open at all, and that the publicity associated with being part of keenspot/space does work in attracting a viewing audience. it will also push those people running keenspot to expand their technical base to keep problems such as these from occurring, however slow a process that may be. computer equipment and maintenance ain't cheap, by any means.<P>and if all else fails, supply and demand'll kick in - those people who derive less marginal utility from comic viewing will stop 'consuming' the comics, until a market equilibrium is reached: marginal bandwidth consumption = marginal utility gain from comic viewing. what we're experiencing is part of a massive market fluctuation [lots of people finding out about keenspot, or servers crapping out] resulting in a disequilibrium state - as the demand for comics exceeds the supply of bandwidth, equilibrium is reached by increasing supply [adding bandwidth] or decreasing demand [people stop trying to view comics that take 1/2 hour to load]. either way, it'll work out in the end. i just hope keenspot chooses the former...<P>okay, i'll go take my pills now. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>flurf
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Postby Kaoru on Thu May 03, 2001 10:57 am

I now present proof that this is not Keenspot's/Keenspace's fault.
<IMG SRC="http://dreamsreflections.keenspace.com/images/spottrace.gif">
<IMG SRC="http://dreamsreflections.keenspace.com/images/spacetrace.gif">
Of particular interest is line 13 on both images. Obviously along the route to Keenspot's/Keenspace's servers something is messed up, causing all traffic to slow down. As Keenspot only has control over their own IP address, they can do nothing to fix this. Also, the ping rate jumps when you hit alter.net (which means slower connection, for all you non-computer savvy people.) While the ping rate is still fairly low, combining that with the mysterious missing IP probably doesn't help decrease the time it takes to download your favorite Keenspot/Keenspace pages.
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Postby flurf on Thu May 03, 2001 11:04 am

if it was keenspot's fault, it's odd that the comic pages are having trouble working while the forums and messageboards aren't...<P>kaoru's point certainly reiterates that. the forums probably have a different 'route' from everything else. thanks for pointing that out!<P>flurf
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