So what does your comic actually require to get on keenspot?

[Boomba]

Just wondering, because I am part of a comic on keenspace, and my friend (the artist) would really love to be on keenspot, so I'm wondering what it actually takes to get on keenspot...

Thanks

[gwalla]

It requires you to RTFAQ.

[two]

The answer to the question how can I get on keenspot? is quite easy and you could guess it by yourself - write to them, tell them about your comic, what it is about, send some samples bla bla bla.

The answer to the question will they put me on keenspot? it's all another thing. Someone says it's a matter of visual talent, but 1 keenspot strip on 3 will easily disproof this assumption. Someone says it's a matter of update consistence: again, 1 strip on 3 goes on hiatus three weeks a month, and some are totally non-updating. Someone says it is all about a strong pre-existing readership: if that's true, why would you need to join it? A little more visibility at the cost of a herd branding. All in all, Keenspot is a business, so you'll be taken if they think there's some marketing potential in your strip - if the demand of year 2005 is for furry strips, they will search for furry strips, if the demand is for anime style strips - anime style strips is what they'll search for.

So what you must really ask to yourself is: "am I a trendy cow? Do I have milk to be milked? Is my back ready to be branded?". Three "yes" in a row and a bless of the Crosby family will dress you in pale green.

[Gianna]

It requires you to RTFAQ.

However, the email in the FAQ bounces.
I'd assume that it's by invitation rather than by submission.

[two]

It's by invitation, but it leaves the mirage of submission because somehow the Keenspot heads always refused to admit "This is our thing and we do what we want with it" - something that would be absolutely correct - too, since *it is* their thing. But for some reason they've been always trying to radiate this aura of fellowship.

Ps: something whispers me I know you. Perhaps you've been working in Rome just near the Colosseum?

[scrubbo]

The real question is... why would you want to?

[bunnyThor]

The real question is... why would you want to?

The babes, Scrubby-Puff, the babes!

Once Keen posts a couple of your scribbles, you are guaranteed to be besieged by thigh, nape, and other such delectable parts.

[Phalanx]

Bah. What about the incentives for us girls, then?

[tweebus]

The real question is... why would you want to?

The babes, Scrubby-Puff, the babes!

Yeah, but those Anime babe's talk too damn much!

[mcDuffies]

So what you must really ask to yourself is: "am I a trendy cow? Do I have milk to be milked? Is my back ready to be branded?". Three "yes" in a row and a bless of the Crosby family will dress you in pale green.

Actually, that can be disaprooved as well. Take for instance types of comics that are mostly popular on 'net: gaming comics, mature audience comics (or if you don't like that term, comics with sexual themes), comics with manga influenced art... They're in a lot less number on Spot than one would expect from your theory.
I remember in 2002, manga comics were raging over the net - Keenspot held, I think, two or three manga comics in whole at the time. I, as a person who disliked manga at the time, thought that it wasn't very good for Keenspot company. It was obvious that the choice of comics was based on a personal taste of particular persons.
Situation changed since then, there's more manga comics (or insert any type of popular comics you want) on 'spot. But there's more comics in whole, so there.

[zortic]

The real question is... why would you want to?

The babes, Scrubby-Puff, the babes!

Once Keen posts a couple of your scribbles, you are guaranteed to be besieged by thigh, nape, and other such delectable parts.

I'm still waiting for this to kick in.

[bunnyThor]

Bah. What about the incentives for us girls, then?

Don't girls like babes too?

Last I checked, "babe" was pretty gender neutral, as were napes and thighs.

[Phalanx]

Bah. What about the incentives for us girls, then?

Don't girls like babes too?

Last I checked, "babe" was pretty gender neutral, as were napes and thighs.

Babe

Depends on whether you're straight, or if you mean adults and infants

For adults, 'babe' is definitely NOT gender neutral.

For infants, if making a webcomic meant you got beseiged by babies, a lot of people would be having kittens!

[Kinzoku]

The masculine version of "babe" is "hunk".

[HiFranc]

As in "hunk of old metal!"

* innocent look *

[bunnyThor]

Bah. What about the incentives for us girls, then?

Don't girls like babes too?

Last I checked, "babe" was pretty gender neutral, as were napes and thighs.

Babe

Depends on whether you're straight, or if you mean adults and infants

For adults, 'babe' is definitely NOT gender neutral.

In stuffy old Webster's maybe, but in current parlance, I can find lots of uncoached references to male adults made by adult women, citing said males as "babes".

For example:

http://www.greatboyfriends.com/search.php?rtype=bf

http://www.neptunepictures.com/walkenquotes.htm (scroll down to Christina Applegate)

http://www.sunnydale-slayers.com/episod ... ative.html (under Characters)

Dictionaries, even online ones, are a little behind the times as it comes to common usage, mostly because lexicographers want to make sure that a certain word or word-meaning isn't going to go in and out of usage over a lunchtime or two.

[Anonymous#1]

Just wondering, because I am part of a comic on keenspace, and my friend (the artist) would really love to be on keenspot, so I'm wondering what it actually takes to get on keenspot...

Thanks

You must climb the tallest man, and jump the longest cup of pudding...and live to tell about it!

[David_McGuire]

Someone says it's a matter of update consistence: again, 1 strip on 3 goes on hiatus three weeks a month, and some are totally non-updating.

On the whole, the comix with poor update consistency had good update consistency around the time they joined Keenspot.
Additionally, the Keenspot comics with poor update consistency tend to be the less popular ones.

Update consistency is probably the most important factor in the popularity of a webcomic.

If the demand of year 2005 is for furry strips, they will search for furry strips, if the demand is for anime style strips - anime style strips is what they'll search for.

But 1 out of 3 strips on Keenspot were <i>never</i> trendy.

[Anonymous#1]

Someone says it's a matter of update consistence: again, 1 strip on 3 goes on hiatus three weeks a month, and some are totally non-updating.

On the whole, the comix with poor update consistency had good update consistency around the time they joined Keenspot.
Additionally, the Keenspot comics with poor update consistency tend to be the less popular ones.

Update consistency is probably the most important factor in the popularity of a webcomic.

*sign*

I miss Cup Of Suffering...

[carsonfire]

Update consistency is probably the most important factor in the popularity of a webcomic.

This is the general consensus, but I take issue with it. Updating consistency is important, but it's not the most important.

While it's true that you can hurt your project by being inconsistent, and will get lots of reader complaints, that is not the make or break. There have been extremely popular comics with occasional update problems, and many many many regularly updating comics that no one is interested in.

My own experience has been that updating regularly pleases my "base" readership, but doesn't in itself help the readership grow and flourish. My style and subject matter, while critically praised in some quarters, are too difficult, confusing, whatever, for many gamers who make up the biggest portion of the webcomic reader demographic (although Keenspot doesn't have many gaming comics, comics like Sinfest are most definitely a hit because of the l33t crowd).

This hit me most forcefully during one of my most prolific periods, when I was posting regularly fully-shaded comics (almost painted) a story that to me hit all the right notes... humor, action, suspense, and a horrifying discovery at the end, learning how the two leads are killed at the end of the series. If there was to be any major interest in the series at all, this should have been the time my readership advanced; instead, it sat moribund the entire time, as Cooller Keenspot Comics *on hiatus* continued pulling in more and more readers.

The reason for this could be that my comic sucks... there are some who I'm sure would quickly jump in and agree... but even if you go to that extreme, it is still illustrative of the point: even with Keenspot promotion, even with *regular updating*, the comic failed to take hold; Cooler Keenspot Comics, with MIA artists, kept pulling in more and more readers.

My most erratic updating would come later, as over the years I've tried finding some way to support myself and my comic sans huge-Sinfest size crowds of readers... but I will always have other cartoonists tell me that my more recent erratic updating somehow caused the low readership... of the past!

I never lost a significant number of readers until I hit a more significant crash: not just erratic updating, but beginning to make noises about quitting, that kind of thing. I told people that they shouldn't even bother linking me anymore, and so sites that I used to get lots of traffic from, well, I don't get lots of traffic from, anymore. They took my link down. :p

So, from me, one of the greatest optimists you're likely to meet, comes this one bit of major cynicism:

Updating regularly only *supports* the popularity you may gain. The popularity comes from getting links from other sites, especially other big, popular sites; and this comes from being designated as somehow cool or trendy or newsworthy. There are some comics online that are utter crap, but have fabulous readerships because they're in tight with somebody who has traffic of their own.

The best example of this is Slashdot, of course. A crowd linking you like wildfire helps, too. For a while on the internet, I couldn't find a personal web page link list that didn't have Sinfest in it. And linking from cool sources creates clickthrus; I'll note that the "Hamster Dance" never "updated regularly", but was once the biggest thing on the web. Right now, JibJab is huge for three really well done cartoons, not for producing quickie crap every week.

I feel compelled to make this clarification because this needs to be known by new webcartoonists. Your best may be great, but simply being great won't make you automatically click on the web. You have to deal with the reality of who it is who reads webcomics and what they want to see.

Updating regularly *will* be important for a comic, but don't fall under the delusion that just because you do it timely that "they will come" like in a fantasy movie about baseball.

Now, having said all that, updating regularly *is* important to Keenspot, because brisk updating makes them look good, and saggy updating makes them look bad. Many of us who you see now not updating regularly were, as mentioned before, updating regularly when we joined.

This may be the most important thing I'll say in the thread, so pay attention: do *not* fault Keenspot for being inconsistent in their policies. If you fault them, fault them for being too kind-hearted to kick us out. The fault lies with those cartoonists who do not update regularly, not with Keenspot itself.

You *will* need to prove to *Keenspot* that you can update regularly... but to make your comic successful, you'll have to consider other factors.

[bunnyThor]

Update consistency is probably the most important factor in the popularity of a webcomic.

This is the general consensus, but I take issue with it. Updating consistency is important, but it's not the most important.

Let me back Carson up on this from a reader's perspective. There are beautifully drawn and scrupulously updated comics, including on Keenspot, that I have failed to convince myself to enjoy. And then there are comics that haven't updated in *years* that I still occasionally pop by, in hopes that the sleeping giant will awaken.

The most important thing for me (or any Avalon fan) is not consistency, but a certain niftyness that speaks to me. Timeliness is a plus, and good art is a further plus, but neither is enough to seal the deal.

Now, having said all that, updating regularly *is* important to Keenspot, because brisk updating makes them look good, and saggy updating makes them look bad. Many of us who you see now not updating regularly were, as mentioned before, updating regularly when we joined.

Can anyone explain why this is? I've seen this happen time and time again. What is it about joining Keenspot that makes so many webcartoonists start to malfunction? The ones that join Keen, put out three cartoons, and then sink into hiatus are the most fascinating.

This may be the most important thing I'll say in the thread, so pay attention: do *not* fault Keenspot for being inconsistent in their policies. If you fault them, fault them for being too kind-hearted to kick us out. The fault lies with those cartoonists who do not update regularly, not with Keenspot itself.

Let's not let Keen completely off the hook. By being late/sloppy with various administrative details, Keen sets itself up as a very bad role model for the cartoonists under its umbrella. How many times do you have to catch Dad peeing in the sink before you decide that it's okay for you to do as well? And when the people in charge give excuses for lax maintenance/updating/tending to business, it should be no surprise that the same excuses become de rigeur in parts of the business. Truly, my hat is off to those manage to keep their own room clean while living in the messy house of Keen. Kudos to you all for exceeding the implied low standards.

[gwalla]

Now, having said all that, updating regularly *is* important to Keenspot, because brisk updating makes them look good, and saggy updating makes them look bad. Many of us who you see now not updating regularly were, as mentioned before, updating regularly when we joined.

Can anyone explain why this is? I've seen this happen time and time again. What is it about joining Keenspot that makes so many webcartoonists start to malfunction? The ones that join Keen, put out three cartoons, and then sink into hiatus are the most fascinating.

I think it's the same reason why there's a "Sports Illustrated curse": regression to the mean. Like an athlete getting on the cover of SI for excellent performance in their sport, a webcartoonist getting invited to Keenspot is recognition that they've been producing consistent quality updates for a reasonably long time. You can pretty much only do the same or worse afterwards, and there's a good chance you've peaked, or just haven't burnt out yet.

[Tim Tylor]

They do have a "Hiatus or sporadic" section in the "vault" page.

[carsonfire]

Yeah, that alone might be the case for some, Gwalla.

In addition, there's that sense that "OK, I'm at Keenspot, now. All barriers are removed. My work will now not only be praised by a few, it will finally be Successful in a Meaningful Way."

But then that doesn't happen.

So what to do? Keep churning out comics that only a small number of people care about? Revise, revamp, renew, rewrite, recast, or retire?

If a cartoonist is working for a magazine for a paycheck, he at least knows he's going to get that paycheck. But since we're ad-based, and therefore dependent on page views for revenue, that means that the hits that the comics get are very meaningful.

I'm going to use Avalon as an example, since BunnyThor brought it up. I think our ad revenue now is better than it was then, so just consider this a sort of demonstration.

Let's say Avalon has thousands of readers; let's say that the site still gets thousands of hits a day while Avalon is on hiatus; that means Josh would still be earning ad revenue for thousands of hits a day, even though he's no longer producing the comic. He's still earning revenue from his archives, as thousands of fans, pining for new updates, review the old comics to relive the glory days. Depending on how many thousands, Avalon *today* might be earning at least several hundred dollars a quarter. Not a living wage, but at least a good reward for a talented guy... and, once again, while producing no new comics!

Now let's say that there is a comic at Keenspot called Bob Cobb's comic. Bob is very talented, and maybe has even been critically praised by more than one person who knows what they're talking about. But for some reason, Bob's comic never really captures any significant readership. Maybe he barely has a thousand visits a day, and not that many people bother going through his archive. Maybe his readership is still in the three digits. It is possible to be at Keenspot and have traffic that low.

And so Bob keeps updating and updating and updating. Meanwhile, Bob still has a family life, a job, etc... maybe his grandmother died, or his brother took ill, or maybe he's even headed towards divorce. Maybe he's just frazzled. All the work on the comic is taxing him, but he finds himself at the jewel of webcomicdom... making absolutely no progress whatsoever. And so his financial reward... his ad revenue... finally arrives, and it's roughly equivalent to the wages for an hour or two at work at a minimum wage job... for three month's worth of comics!

Of course, the majority of amateur cartoonists posting comics on the web do so for fun and with no expectation of rewards or income. But if you joined Keenspot, that means you most likely were serious about making something more happen.

I'm telling this to you all so that maybe it might be easier to understand why some Keenspot comics might start updating less. In some cases, a cartoonist may very well be saving his sanity by taking some time off.

And some of them, as we've seen, might be abandoned altogether. IIRC, even Cool Cat Studio on the internet was stopped because it was not successful *enough*, even though it was far more successful than many other titles.

[carsonfire]

This may be the most important thing I'll say in the thread, so pay attention: do *not* fault Keenspot for being inconsistent in their policies. If you fault them, fault them for being too kind-hearted to kick us out. The fault lies with those cartoonists who do not update regularly, not with Keenspot itself.

Let's not let Keen completely off the hook. By being late/sloppy with various administrative details, Keen sets itself up as a very bad role model for the cartoonists under its umbrella. How many times do you have to catch Dad peeing in the sink before you decide that it's okay for you to do as well? And when the people in charge give excuses for lax maintenance/updating/tending to business, it should be no surprise that the same excuses become de rigeur in parts of the business. Truly, my hat is off to those manage to keep their own room clean while living in the messy house of Keen. Kudos to you all for exceeding the implied low standards.

No, Keen should be considered off the hook. The updating guideline is there to assure that lots of cartoonists who can't produce a meaningful quantity of comics don't waste Keenspot's time in applying in the first place. Otherwise, Keenspot would be inundated with lots of "here's one comic I drew and I bet I can draw more" submissions.

And I'll try to -- carefully -- tell a story out of school. My intention is to explain and defend Keenspot, which I have an especial responsibility to do at the moment (to make up for some of my own screwups of late)

Internally, Keenspot did once try to set a policy regarding cartoonists who start having trouble updating. It didn't work out. Once you have been accepted to Keenspot, you are basically still an independent cartoonist. and not (repeate for emphasis) not an employee subject to the kind of disciplinary procedures that your boss can resort to at work.

The agreement between Keenspot and the cartoonist is a mutual arrangement between independent entities, and so Keenspot must balance its interests with that of the cartoonists more carefully than you might think.

You might want to think of Keenspot cartoonists as tenured professors. It takes an awful lot to get tenure, but once you get it, you wind up with a little more freedom to be a screwup, even though you know you shouldn't be.