The Spirit of Agnostica

[Gav]

Hi all,

Ian asked me to comment here on his Rothland Tribune article, should I have such comments and, in fact, I do.

I poke fun a lot at Christians and I'm glad to hear that Ian thinks his lot more or less bring it upon themselves. It's those, like Ian, who are secure in their faith and beliefs that don't feel threatened by good-natured jabbing. But when I say that Christmas gift-giving is horrible because it's surrounded by a cloud of guilt, I don't really mean its Christians fault. I'm really, as I stated, poking fun at my Christian mom who is very good at guilt, and a great deal of her training has come from the Catholic Church. I should also express the caveat that Christians aren't all Catholic.

With that in mind, what is the true meaning of Agnostica? Every year, we see Christians get in a huff that secular traditions, like Santa Claus or the Hannuka Armadillo, have completely usurped the origins of Christmas, which was, at first, Jesus' birth. Christians regularly note that we must "take back" Christmas. Well, Agnostica fights for the same thing. We'd like to "take back" the holiday from the Christians. After all, it was Pagan to begin with--the Christians have no more right to it than anyone else. You can celebrate your Jesus, and we can celebrate our Science. Everyone gets to celebrate this season, why not us?

But can you celebrate both? Is it possible to celebrate Jesus and Science at the same time?

Natch! That's what Agnostica is all about! It's about celebrating those things that make sense to you. To quote from the Second Chapter of Agnostica:

Agnostica II [3:3]: You can believe anything you want, Suzy Gee. I only hope your beliefs are self-consistent. Agnostica itself isn't about a religious battle anymore.

Later, we read of the teachings of the prophet Duchess Suzy:

Agnostica II [4:3]: When I was a kid, Christmas rocked. Who could be happier than a kid on Christmas?

Here, we learn that, while Agnostica carries its own traditions, we should not lose sight of those Christmas traditions that bring us joy. This is reflective in the traditional Agnostica holiday drink, [url=http://www.agnostica.com/glogi.html]Gl

[Ian McDonald]

Thanks for the prompt reply, Gav! My apologies if I misrepresented Agnostica in any way. 'Twill teach me to pay closer attention to Agnostica Scriptures! But in the Spirit of Giving, I hope I've turned a number of readers on to the Agnostica tradition, and given them something else to celebrate this Holiday Season!

An interesting aside here: In my Tribune article, I was gonna suggest that Darren perhaps come up with another name for Agnostica, as non-Agnostics may be put off in celebrating it. But I quickly realized I'd end up sounding like the so-called "PC Police" many Christians complain about this year: the type who supposedly would have us say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", in order to avoid "offending" people. But, plenty of non-Christians enjoy celebrating Christmas, so there's absolutely no reason non-Agnostics can't celebrate Agnostica!

(Raises a mug of Gl

[Ringading]

I'm yet to run into the problem of guilt with gift-giving, but I think next year I'll use that lucky dip to provide an extra present. It's a good idea, akin to having a coin-laden Christmas pudding which doesn't risk breaking teeth.

[nagrom]

Christmas isn't even about Jesus anymore, unless you're in a Christian family. (My immediate family does, but not all of my extended family. Christianity isn't involved in my celebrations with my extended family.) I don't believe that we should "Take back Christmas" and force others to celebrate it based on Christianity; it's stupid and wrong to force them to celebrate something they don't believe in.

Although I think an alternative to Christmas is a bad reason for Agnostica, there are other reasons and I still think it's a good idea. The only problem that I have with Agnostica is that it really does seem to bash Christianity. If it were just celebrating science I'd celebrate it too, but if you look at the announcements about it, even the official website says that Christianity is just a made up belief that's absolutely ridiculous. Of course you have every right to believe that, but if it's one of the core beliefs of Agnostica then I won't join in.

I do think the biggest problem Christians have is people who loudly proclaim their Christianity but act in ways that alienate people and are against the Bible's teachings. (No one is perfect, but you shouldn't say something is God's will while it's actually against the Bible's teachings. Case in point: many Christians are anti-homosexual. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong, but it says to love sinners and be kind to them, not say they all deserve to burn in hell.)

I really don't think science and Christianity are fundamentally opposed. God said "Let there be light." I bet the Big Bang produced a lot of light. (That would be cool to see; I wonder if God will show us the past in Heaven. Maybe not, but it's a cool idea to ponder.) Unless you say that every word in the Bible is literal (bad idea; Jesus used lots of metaphors), the major difference between science and Christianity is "The big bang happened." to "God caused the big bang." I don't think that's such a big deal. Of course I also don't see how evolution proves that God doesn't exist, but there's plenty of other Christians who apperently do; why else would they be fighting it so much?

Some people have complained that Christmas is about greed; I think there's plenty a family can do against that if they want to. This year, instead of getting each other gifts, my mom and dad bought a new sofa. Even with my extended family, everyone got gifts for the kids, but each adult brought one $15 present and they played a game to see who got what. It looked like a lot of fun, and there's almost no stress or greed involved.

[sun tzu]

I really don't think science and Christianity are fundamentally opposed. God said "Let there be light." I bet the Big Bang produced a lot of light.

Don't quote me on this, but I think physicists concluded light first appeared 300 000 years after the Big Bang...