Telling my problems to the bar tender

[crypto]

In the great tradition of telling the bar tender your problems I present this thread.

:Throws back a shot:

I'm to good a friend.

I just listened to my friend Beth talking about her boyfriend for over a half hour. She was complaning that he was annoying, and that he was getting on her nerves with all his cutsie gifts and notes. But then she turns around and says he's adorable and that he's one of the few guys that can put up with her. She can't deside if she wants to dump him or not.

Problem is I have a crush on her, so I can't really say what is going through my mind as she's telling me this. Namely: dump him, he doesn't deserve you. give me a chance, if you would look I have most of the things you want in a guy:

I can put up with her choas and moods
I am familiar with guns, just not that good a shot
I can actualy cook, which she can't
I need a little practice, but I can do massages

there was more to the list, I'm just not in the mood to remeber them all.

But I can't she said she wasn't interested in my in that way.

So, thank you for listening to my problems, feel free to make advice and comments, and to use this thread to do air your problems.

Bartender, another one please.

[pablo]

*pours two drinks*
Friends of the opposite sex can totally take their friendships for granted. It's too bad when it happens but it does.
Why do people stay with someone who treats them poorly? Someone can have such low self esteme that they will settle for any attention they can. Even if it's bad attention, they'll take it.
Why do women like bad boys for relationships but have nice guys for friends and to "dump on"? Generally the answer from the women is, "Nice guys are too nice and not as exciting as the bad boys are." but yet they'll bitch about them and run back to them at the drop of a hat.
What it all boils down to is personal worth. People (men and women) who stay in bad relationships (and I mean relationships that don't involve any kids for this discussion) because deep down they don't feel like they "deserve" anything better. They may say it's exciting but it's juvenilistic need for drama. They'll put their good friends through hell but run back to the arms of the dickheads that treat them like shit.
My honest answer, fuck 'em. Life's too short to waste it on people too blind to see a good person infront of them. Just as there are plenty of nice guys out there listening to their stupid female friend whine about what a loser their boyfriend is (all the time never seriously going to leave them), there are plenty of nice girls out there that listen to there stupid male friends whining about some dumb women in their life (also with no intentions on leaving them). Think about it, the nice people of the world just need to wake up and quit wasting time on those that will never appreciate them and look for the other nice people.
*pours two more drinks*

[crypto]

Worst part is she's a subcontious flirt. She does it with out knowing it to every one, male or female (to her displeasure), even over the phone. She gives these little glimpses. . . You tell me your bust has grown and you expect me to keep my mouth shut? You tell me you have furry hand cuffs, whips and 1000 pairs of thongs . . . And I'm not exadurateing on the thong thing. She has even discribed her new unerware to me!!

What frustrates me most is it's like she doesn't see me as a guy, but "as one of the girls".

:Throws back the four in quick sequence:

[ajax]

Crypto, it sounds like that not only is she too good for her current boyfriend, you're too good for her! From what you've said, she's a difficult, self-centered -- though attractive --twit, and you can do better. "Unrequited love's a bore/and I've got it really bad./But for someone you adore/it's a pleasure to be sad." as the Mommas & Poppas sang, but it needn't last. It's up to you. Push off from the safe (if frustrating) shore of unrequited and find yourself a girl worthy of you.

* finishes his beer, tosses a handful of bills on the bar, and lumbers off *

Ajax

[crypto]

Thank's Jax, Pab. May not have wanted to hear that, but I needed to, I guess.

[Kestralyn]

Hey Crypto -

Need a shoulder to lean on? I've got a couple. I'm a little short, but if you're sitting on a bar stool, you can probably just lean over without getting a crick in your neck.

Looking at this from a feminine standpoint, I hate to admit this, but... Her flirting behavior? She knows she's doing it. She may not even admit it to herself, but she does. There's an ego boost to having people of all genders think you're hot/fun/sexy/cool, even if -- or maybe even because -- you have no intention of getting involved with them. I'm sorry, telling a guy friend (or a lesbian friend) that your bust has grown is asking for them to look at you as a sexual being, rather than as a buddy. It's an ego-trip. Yes, I've taken this trip before, and I too claimed that I wasn't doing it intentionally. But I was. Not great self-image, bad relationship, it was a safe way of getting that ego-boost.

Also, being in a high-drama relationship is often a sign of someone who isn't really ready for a relationship that's about the two people involved. It still needs to be about "me." There's no one age where this changes, it's a maturity thing rather than a physical age thing.

I'm not going to offer any advice -- tends to be "what I would do..." which often isn't useful. But hopefully my experience on her side of a similar situation might trigger some thinking for you. As I said above, here's a shoulder or two, a couple of ears, and I'll pay for the taxi to take you home when you're ready.

You doin' ok?
Kestralyn

[crypto]

Need a shoulder to lean on? I've got a couple. I'm a little short, but if you're sitting on a bar stool, you can probably just lean over without getting a crick in your neck.

Nawn doesn't bother me a bit, kinda short myself. (Drivers liscens says 5 foot 8, I'm not.) Not in a crying mood, but thanks for the offer.

Looking at this from a feminine standpoint, I hate to admit this, but... Her flirting behavior? She knows she's doing it. She may not even admit it to herself, but she does. There's an ego boost to having people of all genders think you're hot/fun/sexy/cool, even if -- or maybe even because -- you have no intention of getting involved with them. I'm sorry, telling a guy friend (or a lesbian friend) that your bust has grown is asking for them to look at you as a sexual being, rather than as a buddy.

Yeah she knows she's a flirt, and all her friends have pointed it out.

Well she didn't actualy do it on. . . well I'll let you interpert: she was measuring on the phone, and softly said something like "wtf I've grown again?".
most poeple likely wouldn't have heard it, but I've got good ears, and the phone volume was turned up.

I have been good though; I have not actualy asked what the measurments are. Though she did says she didn't mind telling, and that she posts them at work. . .

thing is she does the measuering because she's worried she'll gain weight. Sad realy. She's not anerexic, but she is damn thin. She's A Humming bird, eats all the time but burns it off just as fast.

As for the other stuff she tells me, it's gotten to the point it's "Oh, ok doesn't surprise me".

Also, being in a high-drama relationship is often a sign of someone who isn't really ready for a relationship that's about the two people involved. It still needs to be about "me." There's no one age where this changes, it's a maturity thing rather than a physical age thing.

I'm not going to offer any advice -- tends to be "what I would do..." which often isn't useful. But hopefully my experience on her side of a similar situation might trigger some thinking for you. As I said above, here's a shoulder or two, a couple of ears, and I'll pay for the taxi to take you home when you're ready.

You doin' ok?
Kestralyn

Yeah, she is high drama. Lets just say she's chaos in a pretty shell. 20 some storage sheds full of "trophies", she's a Special forces cop who wants to become bomb squad, but does shit that has gotten her ass thrown in jail, and she's Catholic.

Though she is trying something, to repent for one of the things she did (one of the few things she will not tell me). Ever see "40 days 40 nights"? the one where the guy gives up sex for lent. Well she's got her BF on that plan for 80 days, and she's being good for 81. No swareing, no doing anything bad, nothing sexual. . . it's killing her already. Only been a week and the BF is starting to crack, he was checking out grandmother butts at the mall.

Thanks for helping me put her into perspective. I'll stick with "Just friends", staying at the edge of the mess that she calls a life, and being that little voice that says "don't do it Beth!" when she's up to no good.

One last (odd) thing about our friendship is at times we can predict exactaly what the other is thinking/going to say.

Ok enough of my problems, who's next?

[EdSaari]

... From what you've said, she's a difficult, self-centered -- though attractive --twit, ...

... Staring into glass of "Black Bastard" - Jim Beam - with a really small dash of Kahlua ...

Aren't all women like that? Aren't we ALL like that - to some degree or other?
Maybe it is a matter of excitement and self-worth. People will submit to all kinds of bizarre torture - just to have something to talk about the next day.

I .... I'm contemplating all kinds of Psycho-babble ... Ah - what's the use? She is trying to CHANGE him ..."I KNOW he is a mean son-of-a-bitch ... but I love him. If he would only ... then life would be all shits and giggles." If she does get him to ONLY, she would probably be the first one to succeed.

No use. I'll offer a shoulder to cry on - I also have a very large capacity for hugs ...

Strindberg wrote, "Den ar synd om manniskorna." Translates to something like, "It is the tragedy of human beings".

Me - staring into this glass ... what can I do about it?
The best I can do - is 'shoulder and hugs'.

[kristress]

Ok enough of my problems, who's next?

*orders a Sambuca on the rocks*

Hey, guys. I sympathize with you, Crypto, but when Pablo says forgeddaboudit? He's right. You're playing the role Beth needs in just being a friend. And truthfully, would you really want such high maintenance on your ticket? Yikes.

I have a problem of my own, if no one minds too much. Wait, just a sec.

*orders a shot of Jack, just in case*

That's better.

I have a friend. She's late 20's, just now developing something that seems like self-esteem. Bad divorce. Lonely. Thing is, she found this guy on the Internet (yes, those are doom's bells you hear behind me). She has two elementary age kids, and she invited this guy from the Internet to come and live with her after less than a month of talking to him online and via phone.

Turns out he's a pathological liar and a thief, and she's had to move to get away from him, and he's still hunting her. And I know, I know she'll do this again unless I can find a way to phrase my absolute distress and distaste in a manner shocking enough to penetrate her remarkably thick skull.

She talks a good line about never doing this again, but then she goes up to a different facility to help out one weekend (her job) and gives some stranger her phone number, thinking he'll take it as an overture of "friendship only" (simply because he's a coworker...??!)...then she sits and moans about how he calls her, expecting some "action" when she never ever gave him even the slightest inkling of being attracted...

Like Beth, this girl flirts like normal people breathe. Makes me nuts.

So, guys--

*knocks back Jack, swirls straw through Sambuca*

--short of the judicious application of a baseball bat, what do I say to this girl to get her to face facts? I'm going a bit loony, here, all offerings will be considered!

[EdSaari]

--short of the judicious application of a baseball bat, what do I say to this girl to get her to face facts? I'm going a bit loony, here, all offerings will be considered!

I wish I knew (swirling liquid in glass - at these prices, too expensive to slam down right away). I wish I knew.

If I did, I'd probably get to - be able to - rule the Earth.

Frustrating as hell. It's always so easy to see everything from the sidelines. Her alterantive is probably facing continuing loneliness and isolation ... and poor pickups from the `net seem FAR better than that. There isn't much that is worse. It is 'way harder for her to evaluate the situation - she's much too close.

I might try - carefully, discretely - to get her involved in something ... but that is not going to be easy... Offer her your shoulder ... and contact her now and then - a telephone call, lunch, coffee ... a drink or two at this bar...

Hmm. Maybe ... Modeling for a photographer in Ipswich, Mass...?

[kristress]

Hmm. Maybe ... Modeling for a photographer in Ipswich, Mass...?

*heh*

Actually, Ed, she's built like an Amazon and has guys tripping over her, which is doubly amusing seeing as she drives a forklift for a living. Might not be a bad idea, at that.

Part of my problem is that I get too much information since I work with her...a close-up of the train wreck that is her love life, dished out amply every morning before start time.

I can't counsel her directly about her "private" (there is no such thing) life in the terms I think she needs, and I've tried about everything else from motherly disapproving glances to eye-rolling and repeated, "Hey, you sure you want to do that? How will this affect the kids?" Haven't backed her into a corner with an air horn to get her attention...yet. That's next, I think.

*replenishes dwindling Sambuca*

Tried taking her out for drinks once. She prefers loud music and dancing to conversation, even though she'll talk your ear off elsewhere. I prefer pool, darts, and conversation, not necessarily in that order. Didn't work out well.

[Kestralyn]

I can't counsel her directly about her "private" (there is no such thing) life in the terms I think she needs, and I've tried about everything else from motherly disapproving glances to eye-rolling and repeated, "Hey, you sure you want to do that? How will this affect the kids?" Haven't backed her into a corner with an air horn to get her attention...yet. That's next, I think.

The one time I had to deal with a situation very much like this, a couple of my friends and I confronted the gal who was bringing random strange men home and point-blank asked her, "What happens to your kid when one of these guys kills you?" That didn't quite sink in, so we went even lower, "Alternately, what happens when you come home and the latest guy is raping your daughter?" THAT sunk in.

I hate to feel the asshole, but sometimes smacking someone in the face with the likely horror story is what needs to happen.

As I told Crypto, if you need a shoulder, I'm here. Just remember I'm short and don't give yourself a crick!

[kristress]

Thanks, Kestralyn! Cricks I'm not worried about.

The newest bit: this guy is hot on her trail. She's moved since she's been with him (no forwarding addy, kids in tow), but he's getting close. She's working on moving far, far away, and she's slowly becoming concerned. She's not panicky, but she's a little freaked, but then again she's also not yet operating at the level of fear that makes life lessons like this one stick.

Maybe this one will resolve itself. Successfully. Without blood and death. If he doesn't find her first. 'Cause, when they stalk this determinedly, who knows what they'll do?

Good grief. I don't know about her, but I think I'm freaked enough for both of us. Less coffee, more yoga.

I think this calls for another shot, and then a good night's sleep.

Thanks, all, for the advice.

Is there anyone else out there with a problem that's less Scream and maybe a little more...oh, I don't know, Independence Day? 'Cause I really think I'd rather deal with an alien invasion.

[Stefka]

*Pours a Balvenie Doublewood, single-malt*

Crypto, I am a woman happily married to a man who has essentially the same assets you describe for yourself (except he's a Marine expert marksman, so possibly a better shot) ... and a truckload of single female friends who keep asking me where they can find a guy like that! You sound "like that" to me. I'd be happy to introduce you around.

If this female friend of yours can't see the treasure she has right in front of her -- and keeps taking you for granted like that, not to mention flirting at you with no intent to pursue anything other than a friendship -- she doesn't deserve you. There are terms for girls who act like that, and almost none of those terms are polite ones.

You deserve better. You can do better. Keep your friend as a friend, and toss your line back in the lake.

[crypto]

lants his face into the bar:

Keep them coming Pab, it looks like it's going to be one of those weeks.

Still sort of the same problem, though the focus is sort of off me this time.

Beth Dumped the guy. [sarcasam]Yeah[/sarcasam]

She told him that it wasn't far for him to suffer too, because of her repentance/punisment/what ever.

That was two days ago, and she's regretting it now. And guess who's ear she's whineing into. Mine. Ok and her female friends' too. Aparently nothing her ffs have said so far have helped, some things I've said have made sence.

She's depressed, and she's depressing me, cause I don't like seeing her like this. She says her entire house reminds her of him, and that she is going to sleep outside until her mom comes and disinfects and cleans the place of all traces of him.

She says she wants left alone, but leaveing her alone is jut asking for trouble.

What can I do besides listening and offering support?
And don't say get wasted after talking to her, it's very tempting already.

[crypto]

Um just to clear something up, I didn't mean by the "shouldn't be alone" comment that I was worried she would hurt herself or anthing like that. When she's left alone she starts projects, some good, some not so good.

Last time she remodled the bathroom, without permission.

So far this time she' been rewireing a damaged taser gun. Thing has enough power to cook a steak and a potato.

[pablo]

Her having to sleep outside sounds to me like her dramatizing to get an extra "awwwwww" response. Not trying to be hard but it sounds like "alone" is just what she needs (and a safe hobby). She's so afraid of being alone that she pines for some guy who possibly treats her like shit.
Everyone needs to understand, it's okay to be alone, not forever, but once your not afraid of being alone, then you'll be good for someone else and you'll more than likely find someone good for you.
She should also just request or buy a new taser and quit screwing with something that could throw a horse across the room.

[Ryalyn]

Crap! Why are relationships such a common problem?

Crypto, I agree wholeheartely with Pablo.

Can I add my own in here as well? What if the guy is a really sweet guy and you've known him for years and years and you even dated for a while, but you just know that he's not the one and you're not the one for him? I try to convince him of this, but he just keeps on holding on to hope. We're friends and again and again I think that he's finally understood and is giving up on this hope and is going to move on, when out of the blue (seemingly, though,I'm sure it's because I've let my guard down and he's grabbed onto some hope again) he professes once again that he'd like to have a future with me. He even knows that I have a crush on another fellow, but he keeps on hoping.

All reason would say to kill it and not be friends anymore, and we did that for a while, but he came back. I'm too much of a softy to say, "Just leave me alone." And it's probably my largest failing with the situation in that I think it would be possible for us to be simply friends. He's a fascinating man and I really do appreciate his company and his insight on things and a great many things about him. But I just can't make myself fall in love with him (ignoring my thoughts on that phrase).

We don't even live in the same state and we're still having these struggles.

Every now and then, we'll have a huge blow-up about this. We'll decide to just calm down again, but in a few weeks, maybe months, it'll come back up again. For example, today. (Oh, and he'd be so ticked to know that I'm even mentioning it here.) Emotionally, it'd be much easier to just give it up, deal with the hurt of saying good bye and moving on separately. But I really hesitate to do so, either just because I'm a wimp or because I really think that something beneficial for both of us could come out of it.

Am I just insane? Just a pathetic little girl who believes that someday a prince on a white horse is going to come sweep her off her feet? Or is there any chance that I could be right here?

Attacks the peanut bowl with the furiosity of a starving elephant.

Grrr.

[pablo]

*refills the peanut bowl, pours Ryalyn her drink of choice*
Ryalyn, if you set boundaries, and the boundaries are ignored, that person is taking advantage of you. Even if all other times they are a "friend" this is not the behavior of a friend.
If you are serious about not wanting more from this guy, set your boundary and stick to it. otherwise it's like you're stinging that person along.

[kristress]

He's a fascinating man and I really do appreciate his company and his insight on things and a great many things about him. But I just can't make myself fall in love with him (ignoring my thoughts on that phrase).

Ooh. Do you mind if I join in? 'Cause I've got a little bit of experience in this one.

In high school my best friend held hopes for me all the way past college up until he met the woman who became his wife. We dated once or twice. I decided early on I preferred a strong friendship over an awkward date, and pursued that angle. He knew that I had no intention of a romantic relationship with him, but would periodically try anyway. He's still my best friend 15 years later, and I consider his wife a true friend of mine as well. It took a horrendous amount of work to get here, but it's worth it.

On the other hand, another of my male best friends wouldn't give up the steady pressure until I finally gave in and dated him for two months. I was miserable, and I knew I would be, but it proved my point. He saw this, understood it, and has now moved on. I broke his heart, it's true, and he didn't talk to me for six months, but we're going out for coffee again, and he's now dating the woman he *should* have been focusing on in the first place.

It ain't easy, but sometimes it's worth the extra work to make 'em understand. There is one exception though: if he ever once crosses the line of propriety and makes you uncomfortable or fearful, run away and never look back. Regardless of the flavor of the relationship, he should respect you and prove it, just like you demonstrate your respect for him. Like Pablo said: choose a boundary and stay on your side of the line. (Experience with that one, too).

And Ryalyn, princes come along, they really do. Thing is, sometimes *you're* the one wearing the armor on the white horse. And sometimes the horse looks more like a mule. But that might just be in my case.

[The_Stalker]

She says she wants left alone, but leaveing her alone is jut asking for trouble.

What can I do besides listening and offering support?
And don't say get wasted after talking to her, it's very tempting already.

Actually, try to be there for her and leave her alone at the same time. To the male mind, this seems very irrational, but if I could finally understand it, so can you.

Just show up on one of her day's off. No reason or excuse, just show up and be there. Perhaps you watch tv together or a movie, help on a household chore, heck bring a book and make an excuse "My apartment/house is just too noisy because of construction/neighbors/whatever, mind if I read here?" it doesnt matter. What happens is that you are leaving her alone, yet being close enough to talk the moment she decides she is lonely.

It may seem strange, and it is kinda awkward at first, but if you're really good friends, and you seem to be, it wont be a problem. It lets her know that you care, and still gives her space if she wants it. Humans are social creatures, we thrive on knowing that someone besides ourselves likes us.

Alternately, instead of getting hammered after talking to her, get HER hammered, then start talking. Alcohol lowers inhibitions and makes you fearless. Its our own fear of rejection that keeps us from discussing some topics. If you talk about your relationships with each other and your relationships with others while under the influence, you just might manage to clear some of the hubris trapping you both. Ever go drinking with friends and come back closer than ever? It's because those experiances become imbeded down past the inhibitions and hubris. Those things you said and did with your friends under the influence are your true selves peeking through with no thought of consequences or guilt.

I think more lifelong friendships have been forged in a bar than most other places combined.

With the second plan, worst comes to worst, you can always just pass the discussion off as "Hey, I was drunk I didnt really mean it."

[crypto]

Sadly the "I was drunk thing" would not work for me. I don't drink and she knows it and she only drinks a little but when she is drunk she doesn't get all admits every thing / forgets stuff. She gets hyper. And Hyper and her are a very bad combination.

[The_Stalker]

Well, it was an idea, too bad it wont work.

[EdSaari]

Here goes:

Two Englihmen were walking their dogs* when they came upon an appealing Pub.

One said to the other, "Let's drop in and have a pint." The other agreed, but as they approached, they saw a prominent sign: "NO DOGS ALLOWED".

Stunned for a moment, the First Dog Walker* said, "No problem". He proceeded to take out and don a pair of dark glasses, and ... through the door, straight to the bar, where he sat down.

Bartender: "Hey - No dogs allowed!"

First Dog Walker: "But this is a seeing eye dog. I'm blind."

B: "Oh... I'm so sorry, I hadn't realized... Here, have a pint on the house".

The Second Dog Walker was watching all this from the front door. Noting First's success, he produced a pair of dark glasses, put them on ... and right to the bar.

Bartender: "All right ... NO DOGS allowed!"

Second DW: "But I'm blind. This is my seeing-eye dog!"

B: "A Chihuahua? Your seeing eye dog is a Chihuahua?"

Second DW: "They gave me a Chihuahua???"


* They were actually walking their dogs. It could happen.

[Lugnut]

It could happen indeed!

*orders a coke* I'd go stronger, but I'm drivin' tonight...

I've realized that relationships are a waste of time and energy. I was dating a guy, then found out I was sick...he told me he didn't want to date me anymore because "He wasn't ready for a relationship". Found out later (and, when confronted, he admitted) that he "didn't want to be in a relationship with someone with any issues, health or otherwise". I'm the first to admit that I see a counselor. Probably smartest choice I've ever made. Am I unrealistic in thinking that that is normal? And am I "damaged goods" and therefore undate-able because of a nasty, but treatable, disease?