Keenspot

by **TheSarahLady** on Wed Apr 25, 2001 7:26 am

How is one able to love others if one does not love himself/herself first?That's how I see it anyway.------------------
~Sarah Beth Douglass CI"Legends can be now and forever, teaching us to Love for Goodness sake"

by **PhoenixPaw** on Wed Apr 25, 2001 8:37 am

To answer your question I wish to point out that I said it is near impossible, not compleatly impossible. So, I guess I do to some extent love myself, even though my concious self don't recognice this.
The love I then feel for others, which is immensly stronger than I feel for myself, is such that I do become aware of it.May all walk in light with the divine close to thier heart.
PhoenixPaw CI[This message has been edited by PhoenixPaw (edited 04-26-2001).]

by **Silver Adept** on Thu Apr 26, 2001 4:55 am

We take our love for ourselves for granted, simply because we exist, and are happy. We love ourselves because of our uniqueness and because other people love us as well, (to varying degrees of this) so we tend to notice the outward feelings towards others because what is internal has been for so long that we forget about it.

by **Greg** on Thu Apr 26, 2001 5:31 am

Perhaps, it might help to think of it this way:Do not love yourself for the sake of yourself; instead, love (and judge) yourself by your actions - by what you can do to help others and bring them happiness.------------------
-------------
Sir Gregory of Melbourne, KI
Knight of the <A HREF="http://www.iubalis.org" TARGET=_blank>Order of Jubal</A>
"What I tell you three times is true..." - The Bellman

by **PhoenixPaw** on Fri Apr 27, 2001 11:16 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by TheSarahLady:
I vote for Sir Sean Connery ^_~ and not just cause his voice (to quote Ki of GPF fame) "Makes my toes curl". Who better than a knight (even if it's only honorary) to represent a group such as this?... And by the way..I think Sir Timber sounds just fine doing it, take it from a professional ^_~
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually. LORD Sean Connery is not a knight. Not even a Honnory one. He's one (or two) stepps up the ladder. Ok, there's not much of land he is Lord over, but he's a Lord, and thus outranks any kind of knight.CI PhoenixPaw

by **TheSarahLady** on Sun Apr 29, 2001 4:02 am

Thank you for correcting my misinformation PheonixPaw ^_~------------------
~Sarah Beth Douglass CI"Legends can be now and forever, teaching us to Love for Goodness sake"

by **Lothar Sauvage** on Sun May 20, 2001 7:54 am

Gentlemen and ladies all,I have heard the oath as spoken on MP3 and reviewed the edits recommended to the final version. Let me say that I am honored by the presence of great men and women in this forum and I salute you all. I am proud to call myself knight's companion (CI) in this order and would be doubly so when my time comes to swear to the full knight's oath. Those that know me say I am a stickler for detail, especially where my word or oath is concerned (see my CI oath...) and I see no issues that have not been addressed. In any oath there must be enough flexibility to live by it.You have done well, chosen your words carefully and wisely, and produced a result that best fits the need. This is the essence of knighthood.Regards,Lothar Sauvage, CI

by **Lothar Sauvage** on Sun May 20, 2001 8:18 am

One minor detail on the KnightChat client... I understand you are coding it in VB. Not everyone runs a Windows based PC. Some run Mac hardware, and then there's the Unix people like myself. (just doing my part to undermine the opressor... <Grin>)Perhaps a better solution, in order to be platform independent, is a true IRC client or a java app running on a website as an IRC client on a dedicated server (not efnet or Dalnet). I might be able to cobble up a small dedicated IRC server which I can put on my network (static IP, DSL Uptime 14 months) This should provide enough bandwidth in a few chat rooms with a goodly amount of DCC chatter for around 500 people, possibly more since not everyone will be on line and chatting at the same time. Once we exceed this, I think we will need to do more than just rethink servers and such. The term unexpected growth would fit... and what a wonderful world this would be.Regards,Lothar Sauvage, CI

by **Greg** on Sun May 20, 2001 9:54 am

Hi there! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lothar Sauvage:
One minor detail on the KnightChat client... I understand you are coding it in VB. Not everyone runs a Windows based PC. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm acutely aware of this, as one who stands between the light and the shadow (i.e. I use Win2K, Linux and occasionally NetWare).I toyed with the idea of using a true IRC client - in fact the last Conclave was held on IRC. However, I had wanted to build in encryption, as well as a formal voting mechanism.The general idea is to define a KnightChat protocol, which is basically a text based protocol running over TCP. I was planning to implement the server and client in VB, since that's what I'm most proficient in. I'll make the protocol generally available (except the encryption keys), and anyone who wants to develop a client may do so. There's talk of a Java version, which would be really cool.If my C programming ever gets up to scratch, I'll probably port it other platforms myself.Regards,
Sir Greg------------------
-------------
Sir Gregory of Melbourne, KI
Knight of the <A HREF="http://www.iubalis.org" TARGET=_blank>Order of Jubal</A>
"What I tell you three times is true..." - The Bellman

by **Greg** on Mon May 21, 2001 3:01 am

Thanks for that generous offer!As soon as I've finished developing the protocol, I'll send it to you.------------------
-------------
Sir Gregory of Melbourne, KI
Knight of the <A HREF="http://www.iubalis.org" TARGET=_blank>Order of Jubal</A>
"What I tell you three times is true..." - The Bellman

by **Lothar Sauvage** on Mon May 21, 2001 5:45 am

I run a Linux shop and have programmers on staff. Send me the protocol and we'd be glad to work on it as time permitsRegards,Lothar Saucage, CI

by **Lothar Sauvage** on Wed May 23, 2001 8:36 am

Being the stickler for detail. I rearranged the text from the oath a bit to group it with simular thoughts. I neither took away, added, or reworded it. This could have the effect of making it clearer or implying meanings that weren't intended. Please review and tell me what you think.AN OATH FOR THE KNIGHTS OF JUBAL

It is known that for thousands of years the strong have preyed upon the weak. At various times and places an ideal arises, an ideal contravening this so-called natural order of things, an ideal requiring that the strong PROTECT those who are weak, that those who have PROVIDE FOR those who have not, and that those who can HELP AND AID those who cannot. It is known that this high ideal of Chivalry has arisen time and again only to be hidden by the actions of humanity time and again.

THEREFORE, we Knights of the Order of Jubal, do hereby declare and affirm and aver that the High Ideals of Chivalry are once again brought to the light of day and so swear to live by them.

The Knight's word must be the word of truth and counted more trustworthy than a legal contract. Therefore, when you must give your word in bond, keep it. Be honest with others, and have them know that honesty is likewise expected of them. Do not speak ill of others, for you may not know the whole truth. Similarly, do not gossip, for unverified words are hearsay and in large part a thing of falsehoods.

Remember that any action creates a reaction. Therefore, what you do, expect to receive. Consider the consequences of your actions for others. Strive to do no harm. The anger of a moment leads to foolishness and may wreak havoc on the truth; remember the Motto and keep your cool. Similarly, dignity and good humour are much to be admired.

Any Knight following this High Path of Chivalry must be above reproach in the eyes of the world. Only then will the darkness be lifted. The laws of the land should be obeyed wherever possible and within reason, for they are generally chosen with wisdom. Learn quickly what the local norms of practice are. Obeying them will lead to peaceful interaction rather than useless conflict.

Pledge your friendship to those who warrant it and support others in their need that
they may support you when you are in need.

Courage and honour endure, even after mountains have crumbled to dust.

TO THESE ENDS, we, the Knights of Jubal, swear:

To uphold the right, even at the cost of our lives;
To mete out even handed justice, tempered with mercy;
To assist and defend others; and
To strive to act with honour at all times.

Probi Immotiqve Este: Be virtuous and cool. Regards,Lothar Sauvage, CI

by **TimberBram** on Wed May 23, 2001 9:00 am

Being one of the authors of the original I can appreciate the improvement made in organisation.So, let's use it, shall we?Peace and PIQE,
Sir Timber Bram, KI Eqvites Ivbalis.

by **Lothar Sauvage** on Wed May 23, 2001 10:18 am

It's already on my wall. (grin)I wear rings or necklaces to symbolize oaths I have taken. I currently wear on my left a wedding band of gold and on my right a stainless steel band for my oath to EI (I like the symbology there...). In the past I have worn "dog tags" which symbolized my oath of enlistment, of which I am now absolved. Regards,Lothar Sauvage

by **Jim Brockman** on Wed May 30, 2001 4:07 am

Sir Alexander is correct.
As an author I have examined the copywrite laws.
On any written material (and you guys did write it before it was recorded)all you need to do is claim the copywrite.------------------
Jim Brockman CI

by **TheSarahLady** on Wed May 30, 2001 6:42 am

A while ago someone expressed an interest in getting the order status as a corporation of sorts (I use the name corporation only for lack of a better term) and I'm consulting some lawyer friends of mine to find out how we would go about such a thing,becoming a legal non profit organization of whathaveyou. One of my friends has told me that we would need to "base" the order in a particular country in order to even start the process. If we are still interrested in doing so let me know and I'll continue my inquiries. ------------------
~Sarah Beth Douglass CI"Legends can be now and forever, teaching us to Love for Goodness sake"

by **Silver Adept** on Thu May 31, 2001 3:54 am

We're certainly thinking about it. We've tossed around the idea of becomking a real org. somewhere and opening up chapters all over the world! MWHAHAHAHA.... err... right, then. So if you would continue your inquiries, we'd be appreciative.

by **Lothar Sauvage** on Thu May 31, 2001 6:10 am

Gentlemen and Ladies,To be organized in one or another country has advantages and disadvantages. In fact, the states here in the US have corporation laws that vary so much that US companies often decide to move to "greener pastures" when they incorporate.I recommend the knights consider where all active members are and compare the laws, organizing where the laws favor us most. Do we have anyone in Nevada for example? The laws are rediculously easy there, but you need an office with an address and phone number.Another issue is since we would most likely be organized as a non-profit, we would need the typical support structure. Nashville has a good example of that with a round tabe of sorts for NPO's. Other communities have simular.I have lots of documentation and resources about incorporation in various states (my company will incorporate in the next year), and I do much work with local non profits. I can't guarantee I'll have the answer to questions, but I can find where to find the answers.Regards,Lothar Sauvage, CI

by **Greg** on Thu May 31, 2001 7:38 am

Thanks for your suggestions, Lothar!The other thing we need to consider is the prospect of titles and arms for Knights.I have recently debated this in e-mail with somone, but here's the short version. For us to be an Order of Chivalry, and to appoint Knights who bear Arms, under normal circumstances this can only be done by a Head of State, or the Pope (whom is the Head of State of the Vatican).As the Internet does not have a Head of State, we exist in a gray area and are, to some extent, taking advantage of that. However, as soon as we set up a physical office and presence, we (as an organisation) are bound by that country's laws regarding corporations, organisations, taxation and heraldry.We need to ensure that, wherever we "set up shop", we can continue to allow people to bear arms, and to refer to themselves as Knights.Regards,
Sir Greg
------------------
-------------
Sir Gregory of Melbourne, KI
Knight of the <A HREF="http://www.ivbalis.org" TARGET=_blank>Order of Jubal</A>
"What I tell you three times is true..." - The Bellman

by **TimberBram** on Sat Jun 16, 2001 6:43 am

Having taken into consideration the thematic groupings suggested by Lothar Sauvage, CI, and the minor alterations in verb tense noted by siece, CI, I've rolled a new version of the Knightly Oath.(A note regarding structure: the blank lines indicate paragraphs. The line breaks merely allow me to read the line without having to turn my head <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"> )-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
AN OATH FOR THE KNIGHTS OF JUBALIt has been known that for thousands of years
the strong have preyed upon the weak. At various times and places an ideal has arisen,
an ideal contravening this so-called natural order of things,
an ideal requiring that the strong PROTECT those who are weak,
that those who have PROVIDE FOR those who have not,
and that those who can HELP AND AID those who cannot.
This high ideal of Chivalry has arisen time and again
only to be hidden by the actions of humanity time and again.THEREFORE, we Knights of the Order of Jubal,
do hereby declare and affirm and aver
that the High Ideals of Chivalry are once again
brought to the light of day and so swear to live by them.The Knight's word must be the word of truth
and counted more trustworthy than a legal contract.
Therefore, when you must give your word in bond, keep it. Be honest with others,
and have them know
that honesty is likewise expected of them. Do not speak ill of others,
for you may not know the whole truth.
Similarly, do not gossip,
for unverified words are hearsay
and in large part a thing of falsehoods.Remember that any action creates a reaction.
Therefore, what you do, expect to receive. Consider the consequences of your actions for others.
Strive to do no harm. The anger of a moment leads to foolishness
and may wreak havoc on the truth;
remember the Motto and keep your cool. Similarly, dignity and good humour are much to be admired.The laws of the land should be obeyed
wherever possible and within reason,
for they are generally chosen with wisdom. Learn quickly what the local norms of practice are.
Obeying them will lead to peaceful interaction rather than useless conflict.Pledge your friendship to those who warrant it
and support them when they are in need that
they may support you when you are in need.Courage and honour endure,
even after mountains have crumbled to dust.Any Knight following this High Path of Chivalry
must be above reproach in the eyes of the world.
Only then will the darkness be lifted. TO THESE ENDS, we, the Knights of Jubal, swear:To uphold the right, even at the cost of our lives;
To mete out even handed justice, tempered with mercy;
To assist and defend others; and
To strive to act with honour at all times.Probi Immotiqve Este: Be virtuous and cool.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Further comments?Greg, I'll record a new MP3 with this version sometime in the near future.Peace and PIQE,
Sir Timber Bram, KIEI.[This message has been edited by TimberBram (edited 06-16-2001).]

Keenspot

Something found for EI perusal.

Who is online