If you don't like it, stop reading!

[Daige_Demonslayer]

It surprises me how much SHIT you guys keep throwing at Mookie!

Ever heard of "respecting the author"? Obviously not. Of course, you're all allowed to voice your opinions. Maybe Mookie will listen, maybe he won't, but it all boils down to this:

He wants to tell a story, but it's HIS story, so you either read it or you don't. Your choice. Feel free to leave whenever you wish to do so, but stop that whining, okay?

[daveshan]

It surprises me how much SHIT you guys keep throwing at Mookie!

Ever heard of "respecting the author"? Obviously not. Of course, you're all allowed to voice your opinions. Maybe Mookie will listen, maybe he won't, but it all boils down to this:

He wants to tell a story, but it's HIS story, so you either read it or you don't. Your choice. Feel free to leave whenever you wish to do so, but stop that whining, okay?

Awww.... Look everyone, the new guy's voicing his opinions on the internet and he's mad at us. He even used a cute little angry devil face.

Who used a cute little angry devil face? Who used a cute widdle angwy devil face? You did! You did! Yes you did!


With that out of the way, let me explain something to you: Mookie is the worst thing to happen to storytelling ever. I've seen shipping fics done by 12 year-old girls that have better characters, plots, storylines, and, most of all, consistency. We've all given Mookie a lot of chances and you can read through the threads between the start of 2012 and mid-March. There's a fair share of positive reviews.

However, around mid-March, Mookie, once again, proved that he would not risk any evil traits in a character he viewed as even a slight avatar of himself or someone he cares about and he has no problem sacrificing all decency in his story to do so.

Now, you might ask why we stay? Why rip on him so? Two reasons:
*One, 'cause he really does deserve it. We know he trolls these forums and reads the comments. Heck, I'm pretty sure we're the only active DD forum still around. Yet, despite everything from constructive criticism to harsh flames, he refuses to do anything other than make all his avatars Mary Sues.

*Two, 'cause we've become friends with one another. And if reading a piece of crap comic everyday is what we have to do to share a few laughs and rants with each others, so be it.

[PantherScott]

Wow, I was going to give Mookie's wife the benefit of the doubt other than bad taste before this but all right. The don't like it quit reading defense is one of the weakest defenses of a work. Critics are important, if the writer will listen to them.

See, I look at Mookie as a Vince Russo. Don't know who he is, allow me to explain. Vince Russo or Satan in pro wrestling circles is a booker. A booker is a man or woman who decides how matches end and where rivalries go. Who are good guys and who are bad guys. Simple to understand right? Vince Russo was full of incredibly great ideas, when he was being filtered and guided by other people. When he wasn't being filtered and he was given carte blanche, the garbage that spewed from his pen was indescribable. Pink Slip on a Pole matches, Stun Gun on a Pole matches, Turkey on a Pole matches, Buff Bagwell's MOM on a pole matches. (I'm not kidding about those.) Matches would have stipulations, extra rules, added to them and then not involve those stipulations. Title belts would change hands for no discernable reason and characters were derailed for things that made no sense. He's still doing this to this day in fact and every company he works for suffers from it.

The reason I tie Mookie into Vince Russo is that this comic started GREAT! I loved it, I came to read it regularly and even when it started sliding into shit, I sat and read happily, thinking that everyone has a rut. Then I could no longer resist the suck. I think it was Barnett where Mookie became Vince Russo finally. She had been Dominic's sister, which would have been interesting, then we get told "No hee hee, I fooled you guys, she's Luna's sister! Yes, I realize that the swerve is pointless and not interesting, but this is my comic!" That's when I grew tired of it all and started reading to see how horrible it will become. There's also the fact that he refuses to draw better because it's the style he likes for the comic. I'm sorry, that's an excuse that deserves to get steel toe all leather biker boots shoved up your ass. I'm not going to give you my all because I don't feel like it, but do buy my books.

In close tl;dr I know, but it may be his work, but no man is immune to criticism. And no man is immune to being told their work is shit when they need to be filtered, and trust me honey, the gas bag you married, he needs to be filtered.

[IrishFino]

Let me speak slowly and in your language:

[BLjG]

I just replied to say that this person has had an account since '06 and has three posts, two of which have been in the last week.


...also, we creative types are NOTHING without critics - any time I create anything artsy, I welcome and actually proactively gather criticism. You know to make it better.

[Daige_Demonslayer]

Okay, maybe "stop reading" is a little harsh but you all were rather harsh in your criticism, so I think you deserved to hear this. What I want? That you stop whining and start giving creative criticism. There's a huge difference.


BLjG:
Yes, I am a new member in THIS forum but I've been a long-time member in other DD forums. There's a perfectly good reason why I only posted once after creating this account six years ago: I saw the general forum attitude and didn't like it, so I left right away. I returned now, hoping things had changed, but obviously not.


PantherScott:
Sure, criticism needs to be heard, and I already said everyone has a right to voice their opinions, but the things I've seen so far feels only like whining and nothing else:
"Bwaaah, don't let us see 'that guy' ever again...whatever his name is...we hate him...for no particular reason..."

It was the same thing about Greg, before he lost his magic. Everyone hated him for being a goody-two-shoes and whatnot. So yeah, constructive criticism like "we don't like this guy because blablabla" is completely okay, but that's not the thing I've seen here. There's too much plain SHIT flying around in here! And demanding the author to draw better just because he CAN do better? That seems very silly. His style is his own and he keeps it because it gets the work done. Better art means more job on his side and let's face it: This guy gives us a free comic five days a week and he's been doing it for lots of years now. Few other comics are that resilient and stable. He might not be giving it his all, but he IS giving it a LOT, and like us, he deserves to have a life beyond Dominic Deegan.

I've always liked what Mookie is doing, even when almost everyone else complained loudly about the comic, because I respect him for his work. Probably because I view his comic as a sort of book, and I want to read whatever he gives me. I mean, if you had read three chapters of Lord of the Rings, and could have the option of mailing Tolkien and tell him to stop babbling about how lucious the forests are, or something like that, would you do that? And do you think he would listen? And if Tolkien would ignore you, would you keep reading or keep complaining and eventually stop reading?

I choose to just let Mookie tell his story and either keep reading or stop doing it. Sure, I could criticize if I wanted to but so far, I've chosen not to. Also, I'm not his wife, I'm one of his long-time fans. Nice talking to you.


daveshan:
Trying to make fun of me will get you nowhere, it only proves my point: Your attitude is bad. How old are you anyway, 15? I've met younger people with better behaviour and attitude than yours. Now, with THAT out of the way: So you've seen lots of better work, even from 12-year-olds. So why do you keep reading DD, if you hate it so much? Seems like a huge waste of time to me. If I dislike something (like this conversation), I generally stop investing energy in it. You should too. Also, what's wrong with smileys? They clarify the feelings of the person behind the text. Now, please feel free to keep humiliating the forum visitors. It will certainly give Keenspot a good reputation and attract more members. NOT!


Now, where are those moderators...?

[TerminusEst13]

I never understood the "if you don't like it, stop reading" defense.
If you don't like us saying mean stuff about his writing, why are you reading and responding to it?

As much as I loathe Mookie's writing, characters, and dislike his art, I believe I've never personally insulted him. Hell, I've gone to a con and shaken his hand, told him how much I like his work.
And I do. I like reading a good bad story (If you'll excuse the oxymoron?)--I like reading train wrecks, I like seeing hilariously predictable characters get into hilariously predictable situations, and I'm always eager to see in what new and interesting ways I can be disappointed, not to mention it's a sort of scouting ground for seeing how certain concepts can be used (and subsequently messed up in subtle or blatant ways). Plus, the fact that he's maintained this for a little under a decade is just impressive.

But.
The problem is that he doesn't want criticism. I'm sure most of us could turn off the snark in a heartbeat and start offering genuine constructive criticism to help him develop if he was open to it. It's not like we hate the idea of reading a good story and would hiss at the light if DD were to suddenly stop sucking. He doesn't want criticism, he wants praise. He wants people to love the characters he loves, he wants us to think what he writes is metal and awesome, and then when confronted with criticism he says "Thank you for your opinion" and then later tells us that he doesn't care about the critics and the haters.
After years and years of being constructive and he ignores it, why should we continue to put in the effort? Time to just kick back, let things go its course, and have some fun.
Hell, if anything, the fact that he doesn't A: Cry, and B: personally post to tell us how much we suck and should appreciate his work is a magnificent step up.

I mean, if you had read three chapters of Lord of the Rings, and could have the option of mailing Tolkien and tell him to stop babbling about how lucious the forests are, or something like that, would you do that?

I'd ask him if the songs are really necessary and wtf was up with Tom Bombadill, but considering Tolkein was an English professor, CBE, historian, and personally invented the majority of high fantasy tropes, he kind of has higher credentials than a webcomic artist does.

Now, where are those moderators...?

Dead, unfortunately. Not dead as in "never is active anymore", dead as in "is now a corpse".

[PantherScott]

I always found Tolkein to me too dry to read personally.

Daige, I understand that on some level you feel like we need to straighten our criticisms and be constructive. We would if we thought it would matter. I would walk straight up to the Mook, and ask him for directions to the bathroom. I kid I kid. I wouldn't buy his crap, but I certainly wouldn't insult him. And yes, I've shortened his name to Mook, and I've accused our haters of being his friends and family (As in only those obligated to defend him could stomach this crap) but I've also never gotten personal in my insults. Because that would be too much.

You gotta realize that we are not a fandom. We are a hatedom. Part of our fun with this strip is to take it down to the basic downsides and poke them and poke them, read about others poking them, then poke them again. It gives us a level of enjoyment you might not understand since you still like it in a pure way. If you ask us, most of us do have our favorite characters. Myself? Siegfried pre character assassination, Rillian, and Jacob. And I would be the first person happy if we got a genuine return to form. We are essentially a dysfunctional family, on some level we all love this comic, but it's hidden underneath all the hate and issues we spew at it.

[daveshan]

daveshan:
Trying to make fun of me will get you nowhere, it only proves my point: Your attitude is bad. How old are you anyway, 15? I've met younger people with better behaviour and attitude than yours. Now, with THAT out of the way: So you've seen lots of better work, even from 12-year-olds. So why do you keep reading DD, if you hate it so much? Seems like a huge waste of time to me. If I dislike something (like this conversation), I generally stop investing energy in it. You should too. Also, what's wrong with smileys? They clarify the feelings of the person behind the text. Now, please feel free to keep humiliating the forum visitors. It will certainly give Keenspot a good reputation and attract more members. NOT!

And now she's calling me a 15 year-old. Her clever retorts and comments just never end. I also like how she's completely ignoring everything that I said about having fun and making friends.

Let's also not forget how she keeps up the conversation despite clearly saying that she dislikes it and, in the same sentence, states that she discontinues things she does not like.


MOOKIE: THIS IS YOUR DEFENDER!


Daige, in all seriousness, I have given Mookie more chances than pretty much anyone else. Every time he started to show improvement, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's getting better. Heck, read a few threads that were started between the new year and when Stunt said he never hurt a woman ever. I am constantly saying how the story is working and Mookie's getting better. However, when he had Stunt say that he never hurt women, despite not knowing about his problem, despite knowing he had a problem, despite it being an inner demon; at that point, I gave up. I realized Mookie would never be a good storyteller and decided instead to enjoy laughs and good times with the people on this forum.

[PantherScott]

You want a good reason why he get's tons of criticism, but not the creative like you said or constructive? Facebath. Mook decides to bring metal into the comic, all right, fine bring in your favorite music style that's cool. You already brought in super heroes and complained (Not constructively either) about the darker heroes. (See below for a rant.) So bring in metal music ok. Then you name it Facebath. WTF if you want to make metal seem like it fits, you give it the worse name ever. At that point, Mookie just proved that he doesn't care whatsoever anymore.

Now for the promised rant. I read the newsposts sometimes, usually by accident. He was bitching and moaning about how the Blue Beetle lost his fanship. Why? Because they killed the character off, in a comic, where everyone eventually returns from the dead. He wasn't being constructive, he was just whining about how comics are getting darker. Despite the fact that no one that has the power to change things can see it. We all have repeatedly made constructive comments where he can see it. Instead, he sends his friends and family on here to attack us for it. They insult us and use that same asinine "Don't Like it Don't Read It" defense. I understand you guys are trying to take back the forum so he can fill it with asskissers and yesmen, but when you tell us to be constructive in a criticism in a place where he can see what we have to say, don't be shocked when one of us tells you to bugger off since he won't do either one for his work he claims to "love."

Edit: I just thought of another comparrison. Mook is a lot like George Lucas. Without input his characters suck (Seriously, look up what Star Wars would have been had he been left alone.) His writing sucks, he puts a lot of love into characters no one likes, the ewoks, Jar Jar. And he names all the characters, including the ones no one remembers because they're utterly forgettable. This Katya character is like that little laughing thing that hung out with Jabba. Yes, it has a name but NO ONE CARES!

[Kuja's Little Mage]

And demanding the author to draw better just because he CAN do better? That seems very silly. His style is his own and he keeps it because it gets the work done. Better art means more job on his side and let's face it: This guy gives us a free comic five days a week and he's been doing it for lots of years now. Few other comics are that resilient and stable. He might not be giving it his all, but he IS giving it a LOT, and like us, he deserves to have a life beyond Dominic Deegan.

I jumped out of lurking specifically for this, because this honestly has to be the most irritating thing I could ever hear out of anyone's mouth, as an artist myself. Let me speak plainly: the reason why an artist SHOULD strive to do better, if they CAN do better, is because if an artist is truly passionate and dedicated to their craft, they should ALWAYS be actively striving for improvement. If an artist is not actively working to improve upon his/her flaws, consequently, the production of the work suffers. And everyone on this forum, without a doubt, has seen this problem multiple times in Mookie's work on Dominic Deegan. This standard of artistic improvement is not only true for drawing, but also for any other creative craft, so technically, this should also be said of his writing as well as his ability to draw--both are horribly stagnant, and they simply must go somewhere other than the direction they have taken in order for him to sustain anything worthwhile with his work.

It's not like we're asking Mookie to dedicate his entire life 24/7 to the webcomic. As far as I know, none of us ever said that; that would be absurd. No one expressly has to do that in order to keep up an online comic, and they shouldn't have to. However (and I believe this has been stated before), it's become clear for several story arcs now that Mookie has not only refused any manner of criticism--positive, negative or otherwise--but has dramatically lost interest in continuing Dominic Deegan itself, or is eternally stuck on which direction he wants the story to go, which only perpetuates the improvement problem. And I know, from personal experience, how absolutely agonizing it can be to continue working on something long after your interest in the subject has waned, especially if you feel forced to go on with it. So at least on that level, I can maybe drum up some sympathy for him.

But that still does not excuse the lack of improvement that he has shown, if he is actually serious about continuing to do this webcomic. He really, really doesn't have to spend that many more hours making the comics each week--hell, simply putting in the extra effort of one or two could make a HUGE difference. In addition, something that has also been addressed before is that there are a lot of different avenues for him to take in order to breathe, plan, and think things through a little better. He could create a comic buffer, he could change his updating schedule--he doesn't have to do a total 180 on the way he is managing it right now, but something has to change, so that he can improve as a writer and an artist. I am 100% confident that if he could only pull that off, his work not only now, but far into the future, will see a drastic shift towards the better.

[PantherScott]

Besides, if someone can do something better it means less work. Doing something worse causes more work. I know this seems off, it should be the opposite, but if you can do better at something, that means you know shortcuts with your work to get to that level with less effort than before.

Take these learn to draw books. They start out with the circles and crosses, then skip straight to the perfect work. Now, I know to draw that good, it would take a long time with me working at that one picture. The artist can just drum it out. That's because he's better than me at it. He knows how to do it well, accurately, and with less effort. No one expects Mook to do it as a full time job unless it is his full time job. The truth is Daige, your arguments so far have not matched facts....it would take him longer to do better than he is doing even though he is a better artist than this. What baloney.

He doesn't WANT to do better, but he wants to charge full price. People are paying for his books, conventions are paying him to go talk about his writing and art. People are paying for a lousy effort that you call his style. Well honey, life is about IMPROVEMENT. If you don't keep going forward you're falling backwards. It's like this, I am an amateur cook. I've given people food and after they were eating, I've asked them on numerous occaisions to tell me where I screw up and where I could improve and then I incorporate their advice. Because my attitude when cooking is thus: When you feel you are at the top of your game then you should quit. Everyone has room for improvement and "It's just his style" is a weaker defense than "Don't like it, don't read it." Life is about evolution and moving forward. Those that stagnate rot and die.

[LordGolbez]

Well, you're not paying for it, so why do you care so much? Obviously, the people who are buying the books regard them as worthwhile and worth the price or, presumably, they would stop buying them. Is he really doing a disservice to the people buying his work if they believe he's offering a product worth spending money on? Are you just upset that he's making money off something you consider to be of poor quality? Well, plenty of people make a lot more money off of worse than Dominic Deegan. For the record, I'm not on anyone's side here. I think this thread is pretty silly and I've had plenty of negative things to say about Mookie's writing (I don't really care about the art, because as long as I don't find it confusing, it doesn't bother me), both recently and over the years dating back to the end of the Storm of Souls arc. Nevertheless, a lot of the criticism I see here goes way over the line. The problem isn't so much that it's not constructive as that it attacks the person as much or more than the comic. That behavior I find revolting regardless of what kind of justifications you want to give for it.

[bahamutkod]

Interesting... the title is the exact attitude Mookie has about constructive criticism in general!

Seriously, though, people in this forum often give Mookie credit where it's due when it's due. Unfortunately, Mookie is an artist with zero aspirations who insults his fans with his newsposts and honestly could improve from criticism... but chooses not to most of the time. When constructive criticism fails, someone must stand up and point at him and tell him he's a bad person.

That someone is this forum.

[Karri]

The instant you make something public, people might comment on it. In this case, you have both die-hard fans that believe Mookie can do no wrong, as well as people that think he could do better if he shat on his scanner. And both in the same thread. Yay!

I started out liking the comic. I did for several years. I witnessed Mookie improve as a storyteller and artist. And I witnessed him stagnate and start to phone it in. I kept reading for several years more, hoping he would snap out of his funk. Call it battered spouse syndrome, if you like. One day there was a comic so bad that I made a parody of it, came here, and posted it. It wasn't very good, but I can't believe that Mookie had put much more effort into the original.

I would love for Mookie to improve. Sometimes he fools me into thinking he has, but he always drops the ball. Usually halfway through, when you're starting to get invested. A lot of the people here seem to feel the same way. Look around. You find people getting excited despite themselves, and then... utter, bitter disappointment. Yet we stay.

Someone compared Mookie to George Lucas concerning their need for external moderation, and that seems pretty apt. I have always thought of him as a sort of Jim Davis however.

Garfield started out pretty slick. Solid jokes, good gags. It was pretty clever, especially for a syndicated comic. As time went by, Davis became incredibly lazy. He discovered he could get by without making any real effort on the writing front, and the only real developments in the dark were designed to make it easier and faster to draw. Eventually he stopped drawing his own comic.
Davis is beyond the point of not caring about his comic at this point; he actively dislikes it. Not that he would ever quit, considering how much money it makes him. I think that will eventually be Mookie's fate, unless he pulls himself together and actually starts putting in some more effort. When he can live off of his comic, he isn't going to quit; if he keeps giving into laziness, he will eventually just start resenting his own creation.

But hey, OP, nice to hear that some people love his comic in every detail. That's how my grandmother feel about Garfield too.

[synkr0nized]

When constructive criticism fails, someone must stand up and point at him and tell him he's a bad person.

That someone is this forum.

Honestly, I'm not sure there is any forum wherein praise is posted about this comic. There are posts far more harsh than here as well as far less harsh, but it certainly seems the prevailing opinion is that DD is a bad product.

Kudos to Mookie for somehow making money off of it, I guess.


Also kind of lol'd at the OP starting with "If you don't like it go away" and then backpedaling into "well just give better criticism".

[Daige_Demonslayer]

daveshan wrote:

"Let's also not forget how she keeps up the conversation despite clearly saying that she dislikes it and, in the same sentence, states that she discontinues things she does not like."

I actually wasn't going to post again, and considering that quote, I really shouldn't either...but I just wanted to say this:

I have read all posts in this thread. Some of them were interesting and thoughtful.

And with that said: Over and out from me. Definitely.


/Daige - still not Mookie's wife, relative, near friend or anything like that

(Writing this post took a minimal amount of my time and energy, and you deserve to know that I actually read what you wrote, and didn't just ignore you)

[PantherScott]

I'm fully willing to admit when Mookie does something right, like this latest comic. He's not always horrible, and that side of him that is a good writer pokes it's head out. That's why I criticize, he's better than he usually gives us. He's not a bad person, he just has bad ideas that he uses. That's why I read the comic, I want to see a return to the original form when he was putting out a fun read.

[SamTheUnPokeable]

Just as an aside. I'm going to continue to rip this shitty comic to shreds every time I deem it appropriate. No quivering vagina of a fanboy is going to stop me from recognizing horrible material and ripping it apart.

[PantherScott]

Pretty much we all feel this way. Just because occasionally one of Mookie's yesmen come to attack us I don't think it will ever truly stop any of us.

[Juhn]

The main problem is not that he's a shitty writer (which he is), it's that he actively avoids criticism, constructive or otherwise. We have actually had constructive criticism on this forum - hell, I believe Faunis used to deliberately try to give pleasant, constructive criticism for every day's strip for a good long while. He stopped when he realized that Terraciano has absolutely no interest in hearing criticism, responding to criticism, or improving his work.

He doesn't care about what his audience likes or cares about. He writes what he likes and sticks his fingers in his ears when people tell him that things were bad ideas. Such as the following:

"People have written sexy and exciting psychopaths and murderers, why has nobody ever done the same for a rapist?"
Being so shocked and appalled that people liked Sigfried, one of his most interesting and genuinely-flawed characters, when he was supposed to be "a bad guy", that he wrote in a horribly violent and racist backstory to make him completely evil and undo all of his character development, then haave him snatched and dragged off into hell. And then later on stating that no, he wasn't dragged into hell personally by a demon when he'd been meant for anywhere better, he honestly and truly deserved eternal damnation.
"I think up the beginning and the end of a story, and for everything else I make it up as I go along."

The man is not only a bad writer, but he's also lazy and ignorant. He has absolutely no interest in bettering himself or producing a good product. Frankly I'm pretty much convinced he stopped really caring about this comic years ago and just sort of shut himself off and cranked out bullshit every day because it's become a fixture in his daily routine. Case in point: he's thrown so much crap into this setting over the years that by now it's become so diluted that it's basically meaningless. It started off as basically a more-or-less standard fantasy setting with a light, humorous feel. Then it got a town built entirely around fetishes. Then it got a world-ending arc worthy of Dragonball Z with the Storm of Souls. It got an entire arc built around superheroes, and a revelation that there are essentially Conan the Barbarian comics in the setting, despite capes being an entirely different sort of comic. Then Mookie decided to tackle the subject of rape without being anywhere close to having the chops for it. Then he made the rapist a hero. Then he made the victim fall in love with the rapist, despite having previously shown to be emotionally damaged enough that she hates and mistrusts men in general. This was also during an arc he built entirely around a concert, in an entirely soundless medium. Then later he built an entire arc about Greg putting together a fucking metal band. In a fantasy comic. A metal band named after a spa treatment, no less.

The comic had a natural ending point way back at the endd of the Storm of Souls (and everything up to that end point now comprises less than half of the archives), and has been meandering aimlessly ever since, focusing on characters and plotlines nobody cares about. I don't know anyone who gives a shit about Greg's band, or Nimmel's school adventures, to name a couple.

He's also been known to actively avoid genuinely good ideas because they would change the status quo he's gotten so used to. For example, he was originally plannign to have Luna die to save Maltak. I don't know anyone who wouldn't have applauded killing off Luna, and that would have actually meant that that arc (which lasted over a year) had some real, immediate, lasting consequences besides. But he chickened out at the last moment.

Honestly, it's not just us who think he's a hack. In the webcomic community at large, he's often held up as a shining example of how to do everything wrong. I know a couple of authors who aren't comfortable being mentioned in the same sentence as him.

[Kyreen]

Wonderful threads like this are why I have lurked here so long.

[PantherScott]

Daige, if you're still here and not gone for good reporting your findings to Mookie, I challenge you. I know opposing views don't bother me. Stick around, be our foil. Point out what you see as the good when it comes along, who knows you may even take a liking to us. Otherwise, like everyone else that tries to shut us up by trolling us, you'll be just another troll, and Mookie sent.

Mookie, I challenge you to take us on yourself than taking the cowards way out and sending your friends and family against us.