12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby DeviousAlpha on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:29 am

Lowkey wrote:II think kin should try to throw one end of her leash in the hole (or have Forgath finally try casting 'Remove Curse' on it). Let's see how she handles the logical contradiction of experiencing all the tortures of the Goblinslayer...while he held no sway over her.


This is daaaaaaaark man. Dayum.

Ghyt wrote:
I disagree. If he had an IQ score below 3, he would not be able to speak Common nor would he be able to specialize in any weapon besides Club. After all, when you are THAT stupid then EVERYTHING (weapon or not) is a Club.


If we're strict to the rules sure. But this is minmax... whose to say he didn't find some way...
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby knucklekraken on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:31 am

How about this.

Kin has never seen Minmax wearing pants.
Kin just got out of a rape/torture situation and is having trouble adjusting to physical contact.
Kin still travels with Minmax even though he wears no pants, which would be quite likely to trigger PTSD-style craziness in Kin.
This has not happened.
In fact, she sort of likes him.
Something does not compute.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Mosko on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:34 am

I think the unaccounted variable is simply Kin realising that existence is being ereased.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby lastres0rt on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:48 am

DeviousAlpha wrote:
Lowkey wrote:II think kin should try to throw one end of her leash in the hole (or have Forgath finally try casting 'Remove Curse' on it). Let's see how she handles the logical contradiction of experiencing all the tortures of the Goblinslayer...while he held no sway over her.


This is daaaaaaaark man. Dayum.


No darker than any other sort of abusive relationship IRL, which is likely what it would turn into without the leash.

Stranger things have happened, but I don't think she's about to test that.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby WhiteHawk on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:55 am

Ghyt wrote:Never before have they been snared by Staples.


Somehow, I can't see a few staples holding a crumbling reality together against ultimate oblivion.

BinaryTears wrote:Actually, the thing that really makes me sad is knowing we won't see any more of Zimmy, the fourth member of our party. She was hot.


Not only that, but now nobody will even remember that she existed. :'(
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Asgardian on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:09 am

Lowkey wrote:I think the contradictions are a combination of Kin's extreme intelligence combined with Minmax's extreme stupidity (the group itself is kind of a minmax). As soon as she realized that there was a hole next to Minmax, and he mentioned throwing something in (but certainly not his only boot), she started thinking "Why would a creature with two feet wear only one boot?"

No other group is likely to be in a situation where they will be able (and willing) to experiment with the holes, while simultaneously their Minmax is separated from the group enough to be unsupervised as he hucks his own clothing in. The fact that he's a bipedal mammal who inexplicably only wears one boot doesn't make sense. This confounds Kin momentarily, as does the fact that she's just now finding it odd.


In physics Its called the Observer Effect where the act of observing/testing something, changes it. basically.. Minmax deliberately throwing things into "oblivion" is causing contradiction in the rest of the groups memories. Kin understands that Minmax must be doing SOMETHING with the "magic holes". Based on those contradictions, she came to the conclusion that things are being erased from their memories as an explanation.

Knowledge of a spot of "non-existence" makes it exist.. 1=1... at least where Kin is
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby spiderwrangler on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:14 am

I think it must be something else that is the unaccounted variable, likely something known at this point only to Thunt. Psymax detects the problem right after the holes appear in the rooms holding our FMK, before Kin has a chance to realize something is hinky. So the issue (in my mind), can't be that she figured it out, or Thunt would have ordered the panels differently. It could be the separate room issue, but I think this plays more of a role in Kin figuring it out (what with the no pants and all). Perhaps it's that our Minmax managed to count to two and get it right! :D

I'm personally rooting for the unaccounted variable during this run of the maze being due to this... http://www.goblinscomic.com/02152011/... how could Psymax have predicted that would happen?!
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby MetaDude on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:35 am

knucklekraken wrote:How about this.

Kin has never seen Minmax wearing pants.
Kin just got out of a rape/torture situation and is having trouble adjusting to physical contact.
Kin still travels with Minmax even though he wears no pants, which would be quite likely to trigger PTSD-style craziness in Kin.
This has not happened.
In fact, she sort of likes him.
Something does not compute.

This +1. There is no way Kin would have traveled with a pantsless human, and she knows this.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby brnforce on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:37 am

What if it isn't just that Kin is smart. I've always seen her as a tool that their DM uses to let a little meta information get to the players. I like the other post saying that this is a smart player that is calling out the other even though the DM allows it but I think this is Herbert fighting back against the other existences.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Asgardian on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:44 am

spiderwrangler wrote:I think it must be something else that is the unaccounted variable, likely something known at this point only to Thunt. Psymax detects the problem right after the holes appear in the rooms holding our FMK, before Kin has a chance to realize something is hinky.


I think that would still make it the observer effect... They would have been the first group not to be taken by surprise by the "non-existence" . maybe seeing the "magic hole" makes 1=.5 and understanding it makes 1=1.

Of course i'm trying to apply physics to a DnD inspired webcomic to explain the effects of what a psionic is doing so i may be wrong
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Thrudh on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:52 am

The unaccounted variable?

Forgath and MinMax in realith #156 are Player Characters.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby androkguz on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:59 am

I have no idea what the unaccounted variable is but I think this strip really brings some light into why Psymax needs to do this in the Maze of Many.

His oblivionization only retroactively alters history up to a point and apparently there is always going to be left some evidence of the now-deleted history and objects. And in the big world outside, there is too many variables to construct a perfectly new coherent reality. Only in a small pocket dimension can oblivionization be achieved.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm convinced that Kin is the one preventing oblivionization simply by virtue of realizing that is probably what is happening. She doesn't have to be sure, just suspect that maybe MinMax has not been standing still, talking about throwing stuff in, but not doing it, and also he happens not to even have had one boot?
Until Kin in oblivionized, the boots and pants are not oblivionazed, because she realizes they might have existed.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby rezplz on Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:10 am

Just putting in my two cents, because now this seems like a puzzle. I normally hate puzzles... BUT WHATEVER.

It's the belt buckle. Its inside the hole, which makes the stone duplicate that crashed into the ground.

If the reality-sucking holes eat up the stone copy, then that stone copy never existed. Then, however, the belt buckle is still in the hole - how could the copy have never existed, if the buckle is still in the whole, which would require the copy to exist? The result: ERROR!

They are probably the only reality in a room like this - this is why the unexplained variable is only for THIS reality.

Maybe, every other one of the nearly 2,000,000 times, Minmax failed the intelligence check to throw the belt buckle into the hole, killing whoever else was threatening them. This is why psymax would not have been able to predict it - the hail mary natural 20, followed by ten other natural 20s, that allowed this freak accident (minmax being smart) to not only save the group, but thwart a genius.


I also like the ideas of them being the only group that were in just the exact circumstance to figure it out, but I didn't see anyone else post the belt buckle theory. So I figured I'd chime in. : )
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Jochi on Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:05 am

Lowkey wrote:I think kin should try to throw one end of her leash in the hole (or have Forgath finally try casting 'Remove Curse' on it). Let's see how she handles the logical contradiction of experiencing all the tortures of the Goblinslayer...while he held no sway over her.

This I like.
Kin reaches the logical conclusion: it's now or never, and demands Forgath cast Remove Curse on her collar.
He does so.
It comes loose, but a timer starts counting down 10..9..8...
She waits until 1 and tosses it in the nearest hole. Either
It ceases to have ever existed, and she is free if puzzled about what she is free OF (worst case) or
(best case) it goes boom on the other side of the oblivion border, and Psymax's construction comes apart in his face.

As for the rest of the speculation going on, it's obvious that the changes to reality are happening too fast for reality to compensate completely. Things are being deleted, and the memories OF those things are being deleted, but the resulting contradictions CAN'T all be reconciled before they are detected. At least by someone as smart as Kin.
Not all Kins are that smart (ScorpiKin wasn't).
Psymax's first (but possibly not only) detection of this flaw is in our FMK.
I have to invoke Niven's Law. Reality will make an adjustment to fix this. At the present time there is a clear minimum adjustment to make to do so. Delete Psymax. His Kin and Forgath never had a third party member. Handicapped by that, they have never won the crawl-race. Fortunately, their counter was never broken.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Darkpool on Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:17 am

I'm not even gonna try to guess the unanticipated variable.

I was thinking, though ... what happens if one of those cracks in reality devours the body of PipeMax? That means the ring that created those metal collars would never have existed. Does that free our now-very-confused party?

Also, a note to Thunt: I found the dialogue balloons in panel 3 to be a bit confusing in terms of reading order. My eye went Forgath, Forgath, Minmax. You might consider swapping Minmax's balloon and the second Forgath balloon.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby babyeater on Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:32 am

actually they erased the 4th member of the party , that none of us can remember cause hes been erased from our minds....
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby az28 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:34 am

The unaccounted variable is Kin's necklace.

Kin is far too intelligent to misspell her own name.
She wouldnt have the necklace if it wasnt for minmax.
If minmax dissapeared, the necklace would be a logical contradiction to kins behavior and she would know something was wrong.
And yes, the emotions associated with the necklace would also prevent her from completely forgetting that 'something' was missing.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby Lowkey on Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:02 am

Theories and philosophies aside, I need to point out how hilarious it is that Minmax's first idea upon seeing something completely alien is to throw his clothing at it.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby askstoomuch on Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:09 am

az28 wrote:The unaccounted variable is Kin's necklace.

Kin is far too intelligent to misspell her own name.
She wouldnt have the necklace if it wasnt for minmax.
If minmax dissapeared, the necklace would be a logical contradiction to kins behavior and she would know something was wrong.
And yes, the emotions associated with the necklace would also prevent her from completely forgetting that 'something' was missing.


if minmax is gone the same goes for the necklace and the gap he created them by attacing the cam :D
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby DragonStryk72 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:13 am

Alaris wrote:Well well... looks like Kin has figured out that the existence-erasing holes are... well, erasing existence.

So... no other Kin has figured it out? Or is that NOT the variable?

At the very least, the holes haven't consumed any of them, right?

http://www.goblinscomic.com/12132011/



Actually, it's MinMax who figured it out, when you think on it. I swear that boy is actually protected somehow by his own idiocy.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby kurik on Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:30 am

Maxing your Int to be a psion: 23 years

Killing your best friends 2 million times for the exp: 15 years

Haveing your plans foiled by the dumbest possible version of yourself: priceless
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby az28 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:31 am

askstoomuch wrote:
az28 wrote:The unaccounted variable is Kin's necklace.

Kin is far too intelligent to misspell her own name.
She wouldnt have the necklace if it wasnt for minmax.
If minmax dissapeared, the necklace would be a logical contradiction to kins behavior and she would know something was wrong.
And yes, the emotions associated with the necklace would also prevent her from completely forgetting that 'something' was missing.


if minmax is gone the same goes for the necklace and the gap he created them by attacing the cam :D


Yeah but your opening a whole different can of worms here. I'm pretty sure you can say that forgath wouldnt be alive if it werent for minmax sometime in the past, so if your going to say items dissapear, then you would have to say that forgath and kin would never have been with minmax, so should never have entered the maze of many etc etc. Obviously Thunt doesnt want this to turn into a detailed 'what happens when the timeline is screwed up' so hes settling for the slightly less sci-fi but good enough for fantasy explanation that they are going to forget about him but have altered memories based on him not being there. Objects shouldnt change or dissapear. (unless your throwing them into the white light, which is directly affecting the item, not minmax).
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby ComplainsOfRules on Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:45 am

He lives by the code: Too stupid to die.

Or in this case, stupidity is infinite, and guess who's infinity's avatar?!

I have no idea where Thunt's going with this. He's got me right boggled.
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby az28 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:42 am

Maybe one of his factors was minmax.IQ > 0
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Re: 12/13/11 "An Unaccounted Variable"

Postby AgroFrizzy on Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:09 pm

Somehow, this ends with MinMax trying to pee into the holes.
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