Thuntworld Serial Killers: Round 19 Complete

[alopex]

1. m0rtimer
2. PicksUpSticks
3. The Kool
4. thatguy
5. ReadsVoraciously
6. Ralton
7. PSychotic
8. Theonewhoisodd
9. Zathyra
10. Xvegietim
11. Wildman
12. alopex

[Wildman]

I'd remove these two:

6. Butterfly Ballot: Next turn, the lynch vote gets shuffled around.
17. Panacea - All players (citizens and killers) are revived.

I'd remove Butterfly Ballot because it effectively renders the citizens useless for a turn, and I don't like that idea. The similar effect for the killers isn't as hampering because they still get to kill someone.

I'd remove panacea because it is overpowered, especially towards the end of the game. Think about a game with 17 players and 2 killers, like we had last round. What if it gets down to 3 citizens and 2 killers and while the citizens don't lynch a killer, one of the killers kills someone with the trowel and panacea activates, all of the sudden we are back to 17 players and only 5 possibilities for 2 killers. Citizens win.

Here is an ability that I would add (really just an attempt to balance panacea):

Panacea II - All players (citizens and killers) are revived. Then, 1d2-1 (either 0 or 1) of the revived citizens turns into a killer.

[The kool]

Shield of Wonder = epic win. Or should it be it's own item? Nah... but if used, Body Armor is definitely out.

I would keep Panacea, because that can cause so much chaos, and chaos is fun. XD

I'd remove Butterfly Ballot because it effectively renders the citizens useless for a turn, and I don't like that idea. The similar effect for the killers isn't as hampering because they still get to kill someone.

What he said.

Panacea II - All players (citizens and killers) are revived as citizens. Then, 1d[[# of revived /10 (round down)] +2] -1 of the revived players turns into a killer.

Scratch my keeping Panacea, that's a better idea, only I changed some things and bolded them. Essentially, for every five additional revived players, there could potentially be another killer coming back. from 1-9 players coming back, there could be a killer among them. 10-19 coming back, there could be one or two, and so forth.

To break down the functionality, say you have 8 players coming back. Divide that by 10, round down, you get 0. Add 2, and you roll 1d2-1. Now lets say you are bringing back 11 players. Divide by ten, round down, you get 1. Add 2, you get 3, so 1d3-1.
OR, you could do a different formula. 1d2+[[#of revived /10 (round down)] -1] This presents a slightly different result, where using the 11 players revived, you would instead have 1d2 straight up, meaning you would have at least one. And if you happened to be reviving twenty, you would have at least two for sure. If less that ten were being revived, it would still be 1d2-1 though. This would prevent a potential imbalance of 20 players coming back and none of them being a killer.

1. Crazy Veteran Effect: You strap on a bomb vest before anyone can get you. If lynched, you have a 1/3 chance to take each voter with you, individually. If you are targeted by a killer, you have a 1/2 chance of taking the killer with you.

2. Russian Reversal: In Soviet Russia, victim kills YOU!! If lynched, the first voter for the intended victim dies instead. If killed, killer dies instead.

Similar effects... I think we should pick one? Personally, I like the functionality of the first one better, but the second one is too funny to pass up.

3. Genesis: One player is randomly killed with the victim. One dead player is randomly resurrected.

4. Decoy: Kill or lynch converted to dummy kill or lynch

5. Ackbar: The killer or leading lynch voter is disabled for a turn.

All good effects, should stay.

6. Butterfly Ballot: Next turn, the lynch vote gets shuffled around.

7. Victim Scramble: Next Turn, the targets of the killers get shuffled around.

Not so hot on these, one essentially says "randomly lynch someone next turn," and the other causes random kills. The first one should go, and probably the second as well.

8. Hanging Chad: You may, one time only, cause a vote to vanish mysteriously.

9. Ballot Stuffer: You may, one time only, cause an extra vote to appear mysteriously.

These are nice and simple, might as well keep them

10. Meat Shield: One player is randomly killed instead of the intended victim.

A nice counterpoint to Organ Donor, actually, but the two names could be switched.

11. Final Destination: You may cause one player of your choice to be culled next turn.

So this means you get to kill someone? I think it should stay.

12. Body Armor: You survive.

13. Organ Donor: One victim from the same update survives.

Remove the first, I say, because there are other effects that let you survive. Organ donor remains a nice counterpoint to Meat Shield.

14. I got better: You die. Next update, you make a full recovery. You cannot vote in that update, however, and must still post in color until then.

15. Rocks fall everyone ducks: The host will roll a d20 for each living player. Anyone who rolls a 1 gets crushed to death.

16. Mad Hatter, March Hare and Dormouse appear! Change places! - All living players are shuffled. Random chance of lynch or kill this round.

All three of these = epic win, and should in no way whatsoever ever be removed.

17. Panacea - All players (citizens and killers) are revived.

Discussed above.

18. Rabies - Random player become a Rabid Mousecat for the remainder of the round.

Eh... Perhaps, replace this one with "A random box appears"? Rather than just having one effect of a random box, have a chance of any of them.

[ReadsVoraciously]

Trowel Entry

1. Crazy Veteran Effect: You strap on a bomb vest before anyone can get you. If lynched, you have a 1/3 chance to take each voter with you, individually. If you are targeted by a killer, you have a 1/2 chance of taking the killer with you.

I vote to keep this effect. The connotation in my mind for the Trowel of Wonder has always been with the Shield of Wonder, which could randomly be good or bad effects, so I like effects that could go either way.

2. Russian Reversal: In Soviet Russia, victim kills YOU!! If lynched, the first voter for the intended victim dies instead. If killed, killer dies instead.

Keep this purely for the Soviet Russia reference.

3. Genesis: One player is randomly killed with the victim. One dead player is randomly resurrected.

Remove this effect. I do not like any of the effects that have resurrection. There are just too many opportunities for the effect to be pointless or one-sided. Pointless because, if a killer is resurrected, they will just be lynched again. One-sided because even if it isn't a killer that is resurrected, everyone knows that person is innocent.

4. Decoy: Kill or lynch converted to dummy kill or lynch

Keep for the same reason as number 1.

5. Ackbar: The killer or leading lynch voter is disabled for a turn.

I’m not sure about this one. What is meant by disabled? This could potentially be bad if disabled means no talking and you don’t get to vote or kill. Bad for the killer because if the next update doesn’t contain a kill, and that killer hasn’t been able to talk or vote, it pretty much singles them out as the killer.

6. Butterfly Ballot: Next turn, the lynch vote gets shuffled around.

Remove – I agree with Wildman. I don’t like effects that negate the citizens. They get such minimal roles as is.

7. Victim Scramble: Next Turn, the targets of the killers get shuffled around.

Indifferent – I could go either way with this one. It doesn’t exactly derail the killer(s) or anything. They still get their kill(s). The only negative effect is it could delay killing the detective, bloodhound, etc. for 1 round.

8. Hanging Chad: You may, one time only, cause a vote to vanish mysteriously.

Remove because I think the Trowel of Wonder should be unique, not having effects similar to the Rabid Were Mousecat or other existing effects.

9. Ballot Stuffer: You may, one time only, cause an extra vote to appear mysteriously.

Remove for the same reason as number 8 – too similar to the Trowel of Ballot Stuffing

10. Meat Shield: One player is randomly killed instead of the intended victim.

Keep this one – same reason as number 1 – I like effects that could go either way.

11. Final Destination: You may cause one player of your choice to be culled next turn.

See above.

12. Body Armor: You survive.

Remove for the same reason as number 8 – identical to existing item.

13. Organ Donor: One victim from the same update survives.

Keep this one – same reason as number 1 – I like effects that could go either way. One question, how is the saved victim selected?

14. I got better: You die. Next update, you make a full recovery. You cannot vote in that update, however, and must still post in color until then.

Keep this one purely for the Monty Python reference.

15. Rocks fall everyone ducks: The host will roll a d20 for each living player. Anyone who rolls a 1 gets crushed to death.

Keep – Just want to comment…I didn’t remember this description until now, Really? I rolled another 1? I really suck at my rolls

16. Mad Hatter, March Hare and Dormouse appear! Change places! - All living players are shuffled. Random chance of lynch or kill this round.

I’m not sure if I understand this effect. I would remove it if it negates the votes of the citizens, same as the Butterfly Ballot.

17. Panacea - All players (citizens and killers) are revived.

I would remove this one, I agree with the Panacea II – this effect is better if a randomized person is changed to a killer.

18. Rabies - Random player become a Rabid Mousecat for the remainder of the round.

Remove this one – already an effect in the Gift Box.


I would also like to recommend a few additions.

1. Demonic Possession – A random non-killer is selected to be demonically possessed and becomes a deranged killer.
2. Angelic Persuasion – A killer develops a conscience, mends their ways, and becomes a productive citizen. However, they are affected by amnesia, unable to remember details of their former partner(s) in crime, or any information about clues or herrings posted previous to their conversion.
As a side note for these two, maybe add a random roll into the equation to even up the effects, since there are far more citizens than killers. Of course, depending on the time in-game that this takes place, the effect could go either way.
3. Shield of Wonder – I support this addition.
4. No Effect - The Trowel of Wonder shatters with no effect.
5. The Trowel of Wonder 2 – The Sequeling - The Trowel of Wonder randomly does one of the above effects, but also duplicates and the duplicate is randomly distributed to another player.

[thatguy]

Trowel Entry:
i would revise the effect of Panacea it still bring's every one back to life but the killer(s) are reselected
people still have the item's they had at the start of the round if they have used them thay don't get more
edit: if they are ghosts who didn't use there item they do get there's back.
..................................
RAGE quit if the player with the trowel get's targeted by a killer he or she will not be killed (the killer will be so angry they quit) the killer is then a citizen for the reminder of the round.

[The kool]

Trowel Entry:
i would revise the effect of Panacea it still bring's every one back to life but the killer(s) are reselected
people still have the item's they had at the start of the round if they have used them thay don't get more
edit: if they are ghosts who didn't use there item they do get there's back

See my above post. The formula may be complicated, but suffice to say, every player comes back as a citizen, and a random number(mostly determined by number of revived players) of these are turned into killers. The more players are revived, the more killers you could have.

[m0rtimer]

Trowel entry: (more may come later as they pop up)

-Ghostly rights: for this turn, ghosts may if they wish cast a vote as well. (can be tuned down to only the person who got killed)

-Haunted dice: the citizens and killers are not alerted of this affect, only the person that was killed. If there is ever an dice roll to be had, the ghost may haunt the dice and decide who gets lynched.

-Beer delivery: the citizens and killers are not alerted of this. The next turn, the killers will still enter their kill, however, nobody will die as they are still too drunk from that maaaaasssive party they had last night. Basically, the killers fail to kill their targets for that day, but lynching will still happen.

[Theonewhoisodd]

I nominate Body Armor for removal- because it does something that another item already (mostly) does, and keep Panacea because it can cause great chaos and I have looked forward to the possibility of it happening since I first read about it.

Body armor isn't a trowel effect Kitti

Yes it is, it is effect #12.

Sorry I was thinking of the item...

[thatguy]

hey that guy... can you edit your previous posts to put all your entries in one post please? it makes it alot easier to keep track of them.

Thanks

it is done

[Wolfie21384]

hey that guy... can you edit your previous posts to put all your entries in one post please? it makes it alot easier to keep track of them.

Thanks

[The kool]

For the record, when I crafted my entry, I made sure it wouldn't upset the balance of killers to citizens. It just so happens that the title fits perfectly. XD

[Theonewhoisodd]

Just wanted to show my thoughts on these (Not a trowel entry just want to discuss)

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1. Crazy Veteran Effect: You strap on a bomb vest before anyone can get you. If lynched, you have a 1/3 chance to take each voter with you, individually. If you are targeted by a killer, you have a 1/2 chance of taking the killer with you.

I think the chances of taking out your lynches should be decreased just a bit, 1/3 is too high in my opinion. The effect if you are killed by a killer seems reasonable as it only chances one person instead of multiple.

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2. Russian Reversal: In Soviet Russia, victim kills YOU!! If lynched, the first voter for the intended victim dies instead. If killed, killer dies instead.

Good effect even if it took me out in round 17. Should stay as is.

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3. Genesis: One player is randomly killed with the victim. One dead player is randomly resurrected.

As much as I don't like this effect I have no real reasoning so keep it... for now...

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4. Decoy: Kill or lynch converted to dummy kill or lynch

Annoying for killers but effective. Keep it.

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5. Ackbar: The killer or leading lynch voter is disabled for a turn.

Don't really know how I feel about this one, it hasn't been activated since I began playing so I don't know how it'd work in a situation.

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6. Butterfly Ballot: Next turn, the lynch vote gets shuffled around.

Toss this, it basically renders the citizens useless and will likely cause many to just not vote.

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7. Victim Scramble: Next Turn, the targets of the killers get shuffled around.

Again this somewhat renders killers useless if they are trying to kill specific people. This is one I don't necessarily care about either way.

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8. Hanging Chad: You may, one time only, cause a vote to vanish mysteriously.

Like a pointy stick... I don't get the name but keep it none the less.

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9. Ballot Stuffer: You may, one time only, cause an extra vote to appear mysteriously.

Like the Trowel of +1 Ballot Stuffing. I don't like it but doesn't matter keep it.

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10. Meat Shield: One player is randomly killed instead of the intended victim.

This should get reworded, instead maybe One player is randomly killed instead of the Trowel Holder. Because when M0rtimer's bomb went off in round 16 this effect got activated killing me so it's not always a victim.

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11. Final Destination: You may cause one player of your choice to be culled next turn.

Me like, you keep.

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12. Body Armor: You survive.

Once again keep it...

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13. Organ Donor: One victim from the same update survives.

Good effect, strange name...

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14. I got better: You die. Next update, you make a full recovery. You cannot vote in that update, however, and must still post in color until then.

I think the wording needs to be changed it's a bit confusing.

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15. Rocks fall everyone ducks: The host will roll a d20 for each living player. Anyone who rolls a 1 gets crushed to death.

I think we found out how effective this is in thinning out players keep it.

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16. Mad Hatter, March Hare and Dormouse appear! Change places! - All living players are shuffled. Random chance of lynch or kill this round.

I really don't know how I feel about this one.

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17. Panacea - All players (citizens and killers) are revived.

Get rid of it...

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18. Rabies - Random player become a Rabid Mousecat for the remainder of the round.

Keep it I like it...

[BurnsBees]

7. Victim Scramble: Next Turn, the targets of the killers get shuffled around.

Indifferent – I could go either way with this one. It doesn’t exactly derail the killer(s) or anything. They still get their kill(s). The only negative effect is it could delay killing the detective, bloodhound, etc. for 1 round.

You do realize that the killers can be one of the targets for the victim scramble? That can be very harmful for the killers.


Anyways, I think citizens should be able to change around a killers name to make it at least a bit more exciting when they first start.


Halt!-For this round, everything comes to a stand still. Nobody is lynched or killed during the round this effect goes off. The side affects of using halt are dizziness, headaches, a severe case of death of trowel holder due to messing with time, a small chance that someone might be frozen in time for the round (5%), do not use around children, dogs, your house, and definitely not yourself. Keep out of eyes, and what ever you do, do not apply directly to your forehead.


Hat Trick was fun to see being used, it always had the oddest effects to go along with it. I'd like to see it back and running but I doubt that many agree to it's shenanigany goodness. (Come on, resurrection, randomly turning a person a killer, and something else which I've forgotten?) It keeps the citizens on their toes. I'd also like to keep change of heart, or whatever that one was called, or put that with the Panacea. The trowel has changed a bit after the initial settings and then degraded.

The things I would remove would be Panacea unless it had a severe over do. I would also like to change the item like effects on the towel, because I like things to be a bit different if there isn't that many effects (20 isn't enough to have something like an item, maybe 100, but that's pushing it).

1. m0rtimer
2. PicksUpSticks
3. The Kool
4. thatguy
5. ReadsVoraciously
6. Ralton
7. PSychotic
8. Theonewhoisodd
9. Zathyra
10. Xvegietim
11. Wildman
12. alopex
13. BurnsBees

....Damnit.

[Theonewhoisodd]

1. m0rtimer
2. PicksUpSticks
3. The Kool
4. thatguy
5. ReadsVoraciously
6. Ralton
7. PSychotic
8. Theonewhoisodd
9. Zathyra
10. Xvegietim
11. Wildman
12. alopex
12+1. BurnsBees

Fixed

[SeeAMoose]

I agree with burns on hat trick and change of heart... honestly I regret not bringing them back.

A few observations about the Butterfly Ballot:

First, having been host for six turns I would like to remind you that this game is not about either the citizens or killers winning. The balance seems to be more neutral now, although I still feel that it is weighted in favor of the citizen. However, overall the record has the citizens winning more games. People continually complain about the limited role of the citizens, and its true that they don't have to send in kills and questions everyday... but their role is not as limited as it is made out to be. While I hosted I always gave out at least eight items not including the trowel to help increase citizen involvement, and again nothing I handed out was useless. Oddly, even with all of those items, most people never used them or passed them on. One of the items was only used once. The problem is in some cases a lack of drive to fully embrace the role. I myself noticed that over the rounds I became less involved then I was at other times. Maybe that's just me... but personally I throw the whole "the citizen is a weak role" idea out of the window.

Second, insofar as citizens not voting because they know the trowel went off and that their votes will be meaningless is concerned... what makes you think the host would tell you that immediately after the trowel goes off but before the effect actually takes affect? A smart host is not going to tell you that, which is part of the fun of it.

Third, regarding it rendering the citizens useless and regarding the comparison between the killer effect and citizen effect, I disagree with everyone except Burnsbees. The Butterfly ballot in fact poses less of a risk for the citizens than the killer's version does. Unless you're absolutely certain you know who the killer is, this effect is neutral, it even has a chance to take out a killer (a chance that increases the fewer players there are). Likewise, victim scramble is a potentially large problem for the killers. It creates the potential for them to kill another killer (as Burns said), what's more as the chaotic lawful host I am, is that a host could easily include the killer in the list of possible victims. That is to say that the killer could kill themselves by accident. Again, as with the butterfly ballot, the risk associated with this effect increases for the killers the fewer citizens there are.

I suggest keeping both of those effects.

*edit* just came up with the most awesome trowel idea (and one slightly less awesome one)... are you ready?

Nothing! That's right, you heard me, nothing at all happens. You have this incredibly powerful item, you're all ready to get killed just to see the chaos unfold... and then nothing happens. Then a day later you get an awesome hat or something. As with

The second is selective retribution, which essentially builds off of crazy veteran.Everyone who voted for you now stands a 25% chance of dying, however, all killers, detective, bloodhounds, henchduckies stand at least a 50% chans of dying.

[BurnsBees]

1. m0rtimer
2. PicksUpSticks
3. The Kool
4. thatguy
5. ReadsVoraciously
6. Ralton
7. PSychotic
8. Theonewhoisodd
9. Zathyra
10. Xvegietim
11. Wildman
12. alopex
12+1. BurnsBees

Fixed

Hey! 13 is fine the way it is if anything it should be....
1. m0rtimer
2. PicksUpSticks
3. The Kool
4. thatguy
5. ReadsVoraciously
6. Ralton
7. PSychotic
8. Theonewhoisodd
9. Zathyra
10. Xvegietim
11. Wildman
12. alopex
13-0 BurnsBees

[Ralton]

So I ain gonna lie, I still don't get trowel thing. So I hope that during the game I don't screw it up.

[m0rtimer]

The trowel is given to one of the players, or rather, awarded to one of the players. When said player dies, the trowel activates, and a dice is rolled. According to the roll, a random effect will activate, which may be good for either killers or citizens.

[Ralton]

So are people putting ideas for what happens when the person holding it dies?

[Wolfie21384]

So are people putting ideas for what happens when the person holding it dies?

The trowel has 15-20 possible effects. Upon the holder's death, the Trowel activates with a random effect from its list. This entry contest is to determine what effects that Trowel will have. Ideally, the Trowel is balanced, neither completely for or against the killers or citizens. And, since it would be unfair of me to change the Trowel without first consulting the people who would be directly effected by it, it's up for a mass vote.

[The kool]

The general idea is, every round during signups, we have a contest. People give their entires, like new stuff for the Trowel, or the Most Perfect Frame Job... And the winner gets the trowel. This contest has to do with the effects of the trowel.

[SeeAMoose]

*sigh* I can't keep myself away from this game.
1. m0rtimer
2. PicksUpSticks
3. The Kool
4. thatguy
5. ReadsVoraciously
6. Ralton
7. PSychotic
8. Theonewhoisodd
9. Zathyra
10. Xvegietim
11. Wildman
12. alopex
13. BurnsBees
14. SeeAMoose

*edit* My trowel submissions are the ones before I actually signed up.

[Coalesce]

I think I'm going to have to sit this one out, sorry guys!

[KittiHello]

I wasn't going to play, didn't know if I'd have time... but I'll give it a shot anyway.

1. m0rtimer
2. PicksUpSticks
3. The Kool
4. thatguy
5. ReadsVoraciously
6. Ralton
7. PSychotic
8. Theonewhoisodd
9. Zathyra
10. Xvegietim
11. Wildman
12. alopex
13. BurnsBees
14. SeeAMoose
15. KittiHello

[Wolfie21384]

Sign ups will close at 9 pm EDT

Roles will be sent at that time and the updated trowel effects will be posted.

Dummy kills will go up tomorrow and items will be handed out then as well