Translating EGS ?

[Tybalt]

Hello all

Back in November, when I discovered EGS and read the archive, I sent Dan an enthusiastic mail to ask him this :

*So*, my question. I'm in France, and since not everybody reads English around here, I can't share EGS with all my friends, which is really a pity. I've even posted a link to EGS on an LGBT forum, and people who could read it in the text are enthusiastic, but many others don't know English enough to read it. So : are there any translations of EGS available ? And, if not, how about adding translations on the site ? I assume that inserting different text directly onto the comics wouldn't be possible, as it would be technically quite difficult, but at least, what about adding some translations that would appear (or could be displayed at will) under the comics, so that people not reading English fluently could enjoy EGS too ? I unfortunately don't know enough technical stuff to advice as for how to add this feature to the site, but I'd be happy to help by providing a (French) translation, and maybe other people may be interested in and/or volunteer for other languages. You keep the copyright and things : it's just that it would be great to allow non-English readers to read EGS, as it's quite unique in its domain (the only other comic I've read that *may* be compared with this is "Venus Envy" by Erin Lindsey, but it's much more specific and less sci-fi oriented) and I don't think there are any equivalents in other languages.

Dan didn't answer, obviously because he hadn't enough time. But in those days I didn't know about the forum, so now I think it's much more relevant if I ask you bunnies about this. What do you think about translating EGS into other langages ? Are you all native English-speakers and/or do you think it useless to translate the comic, or have you already thought about doing so ?
In my original question I mentioned the possibility of adding translations directly on the site, like "subtitles". Now I think that maybe it would arouse too technical problems to do this. I still think that "subtitles" would be easier to provide than direct, "on picture" translations with text directly on the panels. But maybe something even more simple would do, at least for a beginning : what about us bunnies posting translations here on the forum, something like posting a link and the accompanying translated text ? It wouldn't be very reader-friendly, of course, but I guess it would be useful if someone ever wants to share EGS comics with non-English-speaking readers, as it would provide ready-to-post translations.
Or something like this. What do you think ?

[Illusionist]

Native English speaker here. Actually English one as well, so bonus.

Anyway, I don't know of any existing translations, but I can't see Dan objecting to the idea. I'm sure it would be useful, if you're sure you're up to the task.

[OzLionHeart]

I think someone did produce a couple of "translated" strips, in a couple of different languages (with the translated text pasted into the word balloons).

I don't recall what happened to them, though. I think it was just a "one-off".

[nitpicking]

Doing it without permission would be both immoral and illegal under the Berne Convention.

The only reason I can see Dan objecting is that EGS is very, very personal for him, and he might not want anyone else working on any version of it. In the end it's his call.

[theopenandclosedbook]

I would love to see EGS reach a wider audience, maybe you could put them in a ZIP file and hand them out, that way, no interweb retribution.

[Nocturn]

We all know that Dan is very, shall we say, careful when dealing with legal matters. In essence, this is going into the same territory as colouring his older comics, which is to say, editing and uploading them en masse. I sincerely doubt Dan would approve of that.

[Illusionist]

This is different. Colouring an old comic is improving something he already worked hard on,purely for artistic reasons. Translations will help his work reach a wider audience.

[Tybalt]

We all know that Dan is very, shall we say, careful when dealing with legal matters. In essence, this is going into the same territory as colouring his older comics, which is to say, editing and uploading them en masse. I sincerely doubt Dan would approve of that.

That is why I thought of, either adding some function of the site that would allow readers to display "subtitles" under the original panels, or just creating one or several threads on this board that would be dedicated to people posting translations in different languages. That would allow more people to read EGS, without having to edit Dan's original work or updating any alternate version anywhere.

[Tricia]

This is different. Colouring an old comic is improving something he already worked hard on,purely for artistic reasons. Translations will help his work reach a wider audience.

...if he can trust the translator to actually do a competent job. I can imagine him saying no for just this reason. No offense to the OP...but if I had a comic, I know I wouldn't trust some random fan to do who knows what quality job translating it...especially with EGS, which has a *lot* of stuff that's almost certainly untranslatable.

[Illusionist]

So what's to stop Dan asking Tybalt a few questions, looking at samples of his work, etc?

As for untranslatable, bull. Everything is translatable.

[Tricia]

Er...see, the thing is that Dan can't speak French. How is he supposed to know if the translation is accurate?

And since you're so smart, Illy, tell me how to say Uryoum in <insert non-English language you speak here>.

[Illusionist]

Easy. Type French, but with the letter orders reversed, like you do with English.

[Tricia]

Cryptograms don't work out well in other languages. I speak from experience on this. Well, at least not ones that are supposed to serve as an actual language.

But I have a feeling I'm better off not using any more examples, since it's really not worth the time to listen to your half-assed explanations of how you're right.

So, in conclusion, bunnies are awesome.

[Illusionist]

Half assed? You can't be bothered to keep up a debate and I'm half assed?

[Tricia]

I can't be bothered to keep up a debate that serves no real purpose other than to waste my time, yes.

[Illusionist]

Nothing on this forum serves any purpose other than to waste time. If your time is so precious to you, why are you reading webcomics in the first place?

[Nocturn]

Ich bin englisch-sprechend aufgewachsen. Sogar richtiges englisch, also besser.

Ich hab nichts von irgendwelchen Übersetzungen gehört, aber ich glaube nicht, dass Dan diese Idee ablehnen würcde. Ich bin mir sicher, Übersetzungen würden nützlich sein, solang du dir sicher bist, dass du das auch schafft.

Das ist was anderes. Alte Comics in Farbe zu setzen verbessert allein für künstlerische Gründe etwas, an das er hart gearbeitet hat. Übersetzungen sorgen dafür, dass sein Werk eine größere Leserschaft erreicht.

Was hält denn Dan davon ab, Tybalt ein paar Fragen zu stellen, Beispiele seiner Arbeit zu betrachten, und so weiter?

Und von wegen unübersetzbar, Müll. Alles ist übersetzbar.

Ganz einfach. Tippe in französisch, aber mit der Buchstabenfolge verändert, wie im englischen.

Halbärschich? Du wirfst einfach das Handtuch in dieser Debatte und was ich tue ist halbärschich?

Nichts in diesem Forum hat irgendeinen Zweck außer Zeit zu verschwenden. Wenn dir deine Zeit ach so wichtig ist, warum liest du dann überhaupt Webcomics?

[Illusionist]

Does Halbärschich actually mean anything, or would you say something different in an actual conversation?

[Nocturn]

It's a literal translation of half-assed. Granted, it's not the best in terms of translations, but it does see ocassional use in German, or at least did at some point. I considered using a different word, but couldn't come up with one that also wouldn't require rewriting the whole post within 30 seconds, so I just went with the simplest option.

[Illusionist]

Fair enough.

[Darryl]

So what's to stop Dan asking Tybalt a few questions, looking at samples of his work, etc?

As for untranslatable, bull. Everything is translatable.

Ever heard of puns?

Puns. Don't. Translate.

Example I felt like editing in:

"Atheism is a non-prophet institution." loses its "punniness" in any language where "prophet" and "profit" are non-homophonic.

[Illusionist]

Yes they can, they're just not funny any more.

Besides, how many puns are there in EGS.

[Tarvok]

Doing it without permission would be both immoral

I heartily disagree. Maybe now that he's asked, it would be immoral to go and do it anyway if Dan specifically says "no," but when one releases one's work to the public one implicitly accepts (or rather, one should) that others may do things with their work things they did not originally intend. Imagine how Dan would feel if one of us were to viciously parody his work... and yet, that would be protected under the law.

and illegal under the Berne Convention.

Quite possibly true, given the corporatist idiocy that is current copyright law. There was a time in this country (I suppose I should specify that by "this country" I mean "The United States") when copyrights maxed out at twenty-eight years, and only the work was copyrightable, not the ideas within in any shape or form. Derivative works were not protected. And translations belonged to the translator, regardless of who held the copyright on the original (which probably wasn't relevant anyway, since copyright law was not international at the time).

And yet, great works of art and literature still managed to get produced, not to mention the substratum of popular culture that always underlies great art. Imagine that.

As to puns... sometimes, really, really good localizers can replace the puns of one language with the puns of another, in a manner that somehow continues to mesh with the overall meaning (or at least retains internal consistency to the new audience). See Phoenix Wright for details.

[Darryl]

Yes they can, they're just not funny any more.

Besides, how many puns are there in EGS.

If you lose the humor of the pun, it's not translated.

[Nocturn]

So what's to stop Dan asking Tybalt a few questions, looking at samples of his work, etc?

As for untranslatable, bull. Everything is translatable.

Ever heard of puns?

Puns. Don't. Translate.

I can attest to that. You can only replace them, at best. I have watched enough shows in German that were shipped over from the USA, and the vast majority of them go for literal translations, regardless of what is being said. At best everything is still completely coherent, and at worst, especially with puns, many jokes are, as they say, lost in translation.

Yes they can, they're just not funny any more.

You would be perfect for translating Simpsons episodes.

See, here's the thing. When you translate, you just don't translate word-for-word. You're going to want to get the meaning of the entire sentence across, not just the meanings of every single word in a way that they just don't match up anymore. This is why translating can actually be a pretty tough job. Finding that balance between sticking to the source-material and adjusting it for the target audience is, well, a balancing act.