12-18-06: Gossip

[ARETH]

This has been an interesting arc, development-wise. Is Helen ultimately more comfortable with these girls than Aggie and her crowd? I'm curious as to what "undertow" means in this context; I could only think of it in relation to Helen's being dragged along by other characters in their respective directions. She has yet to say what she wants to do in a given situation.

Whose choice was it to assign the words in boldface? I've noticed throughout the arc that a lot of them don't seem like very natural words to emphasize in speech ("wake up", "might as well", "I mean", "I'd still need these", etc), and I still think very few people under the age of 40 say "blasted". But those are more technical points than anything else. Helen's character really benefited from this arc, and I appreciated seeing the different perspective on Karen.


and lastly: what's going on with Helen in the last panel? I imagine she's supposed to be telling a story, but what is that expression? What's that gesture? And what the hell is going on with her left hand?

[Epik High]

I think the expression on her face is supposed to be elated and dreamy... thrilled that she actually has a 'use'. I think her hands are just being used like how people to move their hands emphatically when they're telling a story.

We're definately seeing a pattern with Helen here, now. She abandoned Tharqa and Charlotte for Dirk in the Omega Sisters arc... now we see her abandoning Aggie & crew to feel accepted with these guys. In scenario one, she didn't know she was being used until the end, and even then, she proclaimed that perhaps she liked being used. In this case, Helen knows she's being used, and she's enjoying it. Interesting, definately interesting...

As for Karen... so much for any hope that she was just trying to 'befriend' Helen- even Helen seems to know that that isn't true. I guessed in another thread that maybe Karen was using Helen to get to know dirt on Aggie, but it looks like Penny is still the major target for Karen. This makes sense, since Penny is of a (much) higher social status, and there are going to be more people with a grudge against her than Aggie.

And I really like how R.K. did Karen's expression on the second panel. 'Shark' was the only thing I could think of.

[Shadrach]

Note, though, that Helen's residual guilt, and general lack of assertiveness, have inhibited her from abandoning Tharqa. Too bad, because that would've been a better choice than dropping Aggie's circle. If, in fact, that's what she's done: we don't know.

All we know from this arc is that Helen is still on the outs with Charlotte (and vice versa); that she dislikes Tharqa but still hangs out with her; that she genuinely likes Karen even though she knows K. is using her; and that she feels less than fully comfortable with Aggie's clique (who she's learned can be as judgemental and superficial as the Alphas).

I agree with T. that Randy was an appropriate choice of artist for this arc, dealing as it does with rather darker and morally/psychologically ambiguous feelings and interpersonal relations than we normally see in the strip. Randy's art here is to the Doors as Gis

[Stella Polaris]

I appreciated seeing the different perspective on Karen.

What different perspective? Helen's? I don't see how it's much different from what we've seen before, even Helen realises Karen is just using her.

In this case, Helen knows she's being used, and she's enjoying it. Interesting, definately interesting...

I wouldn't say she's enjoying it, just that she wants to feel like she has some use in life.

[atristain]

I really feel sorry for Helen. She's back in a vicious circle. First Charlotte used her, then she wanted to be used by Robespierre, and now she thinks that she enjoys being used by Karen and her friends.

And what is the saddest part? She never felt completely comfortable with the group that never used her: Aggie and Co.

I wonder where did Fred and Daphne went when the group splitted? (Sorry: I thought that I'd explode if I didn't make that joke)

[Draggy]

Well, up untill now I couldn't think of what to say about this arc. Everyone else pretty much said it. So I guess I'm just saying what everyone else is saying still...but I feel for Helen. She seems to enjoy or is at least more accepting of people who use her as opposed to people that just hang out with her.

I wonder why that is?

Hope she grows out of that as a character. So much for Karen actually wanting a friend in Helen.

(P.S. I hope she doesn't really think that telling thoes stories to Karen's gossip circle won't hurt. I'm sure Penny's used to gossip, but I wouldn't want my rival knowing all the dumb little mistakes I made as a kid...)

[ARETH]

To Miss Polaris: I meant "different perspective" in the most literal sense of the word. While we've seen Karen from the viewpoint of her rivals and admirers, we hadn't yet seen her from the eyes of an underling. Even though we still get much the same impression of Karen, it's minus the whole cold loathing and bitterness that the other girls have. I think it was helpful.

[Sweep]

Man... so much tertiary development.
When was the last time we saw our two title characters in the same panel?

[Black Mantha]

Man... so much tertiary development.
When was the last time we saw our two title characters in the same panel?

In second looks. And the last time they talked was nine months ago. I get the fealing Penny's really anxious to stay away from her, and Aggie doesn't plot collision courses any more.

[missMagdalena]

Ah, so there's that mystery motivation we were looking for!

It all makes sense now.

[isobel]

Jesus, Helen, stop throwing people onto the altar to be sacrificed before your get on anyone else's case. She knows she's being used, she knows what for, and she knows damn well the ends will not be pretty or kind. Yet there she is, letting Karen and her friends walk on her and mine her for hurtful information that's ten years old and should best be forgotten (On the grounds that few people are who they were at age six, and that kids on the whole are inconsistent and mean). Helen seems to need to be used-- she said the same thing she's thinking in this strip to Robespierre at the end of Randy's last strips, and she can't dump people who accept her for her fast enough. Seems like she's sort of a professional victim, and people like Lisa and Aggie (or even Tharqa) don't give her that nice sense of being hard done by she craves. I mean, I know what being Helen is like, but she's a little more than needy, and she's well aware of what's going on as opposed to being a naive little wallflower.

[JK9000]

Once more, Karen demonstrates her total inability to interact with fellow human beings beyond the service of her own agenda. Man.

Anyhow. I suprised no-one's noted the fact that Helen and Penny were apparently schildhood friends. Was that mentioned before? I have this nagging feeling in the back of my head that it was, but I can't place where.

[oenone]

Once more, Karen demonstrates her total inability to interact with fellow human beings beyond the service of her own agenda. Man.

Anyhow. I suprised no-one's noted the fact that Helen and Penny were apparently schildhood friends. Was that mentioned before? I have this nagging feeling in the back of my head that it was, but I can't place where.

http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20051117.html

here ya go

[Kitsuiko]

1. I don't believe for a second that this moment wasn't what Karen was waiting for all evening. Her "You KNOW" seems far more than just an absent turn of phrase. I point this out only because this thread had a lot of people asking why people don't like Karen because she seemed so nice to the nerd girl. This is why. She's out for blood. She's always out for blood, and she most likely will be out for blood. She understands that she gets what she wants because she's pretty now, and she's manipulative.

The fact that Marshall loves her won't change that. The fact that she's got friends now who respects her won't change that. The only thing that will change that is her realizing that she's creating a wake of acid around her. This will result only after a painful wake up call.

2. Helen's no better a person than the other omegas -- I'm willing to go as far and say she's probably worse than the other two in a few ways. At least both Charlotte and Tharqa are honest with themselves about what they're doing. They don't like the others, and they view the world us against them. Helen's equivocating to herself how she's ruining someone's life -- she's not even accepting responsibility with herself that her actions could harm or have an effect on others.

I feel for Helen I suppose, but, I've been friends with people like that and nothing hurts quite so bad as someone who's willing to sell you out for a few seconds of attention. I've had boyfriends stolen, I've been not invited to parties to my face in middle school, and I've even had someone steal my pencils before a test so I'd get a bad score -- still, nothing was half as bad.

To her credit, she's just doing what she was told to do. Friends are people you have things in common with and who like the stuff that you do. Aggie's group hasn't really been there for her like that. Karen has.

The complication's also this: Helen asked how is being used different from being a friend? If she's fine with the idea and seems to think that both sides are using her, why go with the popular person instead of the unpopular people? Because they've flattered her ego? Because they like her music? Because it'll get her farther..?

[seh]

First, I agree with everything you said about Karen. I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt at first, and thought maybe Helen was Karen's reprieve against all her usual manipulation, someone she didn't have to try and be 'super-cool' around. Yeah, well, there goes that theory. I'm dissapointed, but surprised.

2. Helen's no better a person than the other omegas -- I'm willing to go as far and say she's probably worse than the other two in a few ways. At least both Charlotte and Tharqa are honest with themselves about what they're doing. They don't like the others, and they view the world us against them. Helen's equivocating to herself how she's ruining someone's life -- she's not even accepting responsibility with herself that her actions could harm or have an effect on others.

Okay, here I take issue. I think Helen is genuinely nice and does see her actions have consequences, but not entirely. If she ddin't, she wouldn't have torn down the signs she helped Charlotte make about the bombs.

Charlotte, however, leading up to it, told the other Omegas that they were just giving worthy punishment to those who deserve it, nevermind that the Christian religion teaches 'judge not lest ye be judged', etc, etc. That's self-deluding, ego-boosting if ever I saw it. (Remember the Irony Fairy?)

And Tharqa consistantly puts others down. Helen doesn't do that either.

The reason Helen doesn't seem to care or accept her responsibility in this strip is she doesn't realize. She thinks she's being used for a good laugh, but nothing truly detrimental. She's an Omega. She's always been out of the loop. Helen has no real idea of the kind of political machinations that take place in her school. If anything, she's naive.

The complication's also this: Helen asked how is being used different from being a friend? If she's fine with the idea and seems to think that both sides are using her, why go with the popular person instead of the unpopular people? Because they've flattered her ego? Because they like her music? Because it'll get her farther..?

Helen's response, I'm pretty sure, was indicative of her not knowing the difference. She espects friends to use her. Yes, she would like to have the ideal; yes, she would like a real friend, maybe even like she used to have with Penny and Sara before she got dumped, but she doesn't expect it because life has taught her that no one is your friend without a reason.

She also doesn't understand why Aggie's any better than Karen. Why is Karen so bad? She was an Omega-type person who made something of herself. I"m willing to bet that's all Helen sees. She probably has a very small inkling of what that entails behind the scenes, but no real understanding of it. Helen's mostly ignorant of Karen's manipulation other than with herself.

Which, I'm sure, is one reason Karen chose Helen, rather than the other Omegas.

[Freemage]

1: Note that Helen was present when Aggie laid into Karen. So if she's clueless, it's because she wants to be.

2: The girl needs a spinal implant. No backbone, save for one brief moment that she now practically seems to regret.

3: Anyone else get 'Sweet Dreams' running through their head as they read this strip?

[sun tzu]

While I feel sorry for Helen, I'm even more worried for Penny. Karen wanting to destroy anyone who's helped her + Meg on the revenge path + Samantha in bitch mode since the "Worse than Hitler" incident + information gleaned from Helen = recipe for disaster. And I seem to recall at some point T said that Aggie's popularity would eventually exceed Penny's...
I'm afraid. I'm very afraid.