Worse Than A Death Camp!!!

[Hyel]

???
That wasn't cruel at all, "i rather make out with an actual horse ass than touch you with a ten foot pole" is cruel, "I can get out on a date with you because you are the captain of the scrabble team and I ... am not" is, at worse, confusing, but certainly not cruel.

Isn't it? It's saying "because of your geeky hobby you are not worthy of me".

[Sebastian]

???
That wasn't cruel at all, "i rather make out with an actual horse ass than touch you with a ten foot pole" is cruel, "I can get out on a date with you because you are the captain of the scrabble team and I ... am not" is, at worse, confusing, but certainly not cruel.

Isn't it? It's saying "because of your geeky hobby you are not worthy of me".

But it was not said in a cruel way, she put it down gently. Or you think she could have said better? Or go out with him even if she wasn't interested?

[Hyel]

Actually, I agree that it's easier to just be blunt and maybe cruel when saying no to a guy. In my experience if one is not, then they tend to keep trying, or at least you have to explain for half an hour why it is you don't want to go out with them.

Aggie's way, as we've seen before, is to lie to soften the blow. Penny just tells it how it is - she probably DOES think he's not worthy of her because of his geeky hobby.

But my original point was that in that instance Aggie's attacking Penny was justified - it was driven by compassion, because Aggie was annoyed that Penny was hurting boys. That to me is more justified than going after her to relieve her own aggression, which she's also done in the past.

I don't like Penny - I do like Aggie - but I am trying to be objective here.

[Gevin]

Both girls are diamonds in the rough, it's just that each girl's rough is very different from the other's.

I do find myself siding with Aggie more often than not, though, due to her being more compassionate in that which she does.

[onedaymore]

I wonder... they're in at least one class together.

Yep! They're in English together.

Actually, I agree that it's easier to just be blunt and maybe cruel when saying no to a guy. In my experience if one is not, then they tend to keep trying, or at least you have to explain for half an hour why it is you don't want to go out with them.

Yeah. Sometimes, the niceness is interpretted as you still liking them, and then you HAVE to be mean. It's no fun.

[Yuko no Slayer-Dryad]

???
That wasn't cruel at all, "i rather make out with an actual horse ass than touch you with a ten foot pole" is cruel, "I can get out on a date with you because you are the captain of the scrabble team and I ... am not" is, at worse, confusing, but certainly not cruel.

Isn't it? It's saying "because of your geeky hobby you are not worthy of me".

But it was not said in a cruel way, she put it down gently. Or you think she could have said better? Or go out with him even if she wasn't interested?

She could have easily said it better without implying that his interest in scrabble made him 'beneath her.' THAT is what made it cruel. There is nothing kind about being an arrogant fop. Just because she didn't lay it on like a yowling artless lout doesn't mean it wasn't cruel. There was also very little to be confused about with what she said. Hyel's interpretation is pretty much what anyone else using that phrasing would intend to mean by it
"No, you're not my type." would have been an cruelity free, foppishness free way of putting it. "No. I'd never date you in a million years." If the previous doesn't give him the idea.

[Sebastian]

She could have easily said it better without implying that his interest in scrabble made him 'beneath her.' THAT is what made it cruel. There is nothing kind about being an arrogant fop. Just because she didn't lay it on like a yowling artless lout doesn't mean it wasn't cruel. There was also very little to be confused about with what she said.

The boy was cofused by it, just to say one.

"No. I'd never date you in a million years." If the previous doesn't give him the idea.

How is this not cruel?

[Frances]

Actually, I agree that it's easier to just be blunt and maybe cruel when saying no to a guy. In my experience if one is not, then they tend to keep trying, or at least you have to explain for half an hour why it is you don't want to go out with them.

[...]

But my original point was that in that instance Aggie's attacking Penny was justified - it was driven by compassion, because Aggie was annoyed that Penny was hurting boys. That to me is more justified than going after her to relieve her own aggression, which she's also done in the past.

Uhm...

So you're saying that it's justified to use compassion as a reason to attack someone who's making it clear that they're not interested in someone else (rather than, you know, compassionately go try and help the rejected person deal with the rejection)?

I'm lost here.

Love and coffee,
Frances

[Frances]

Yuko no Slayer-Dryad wrote:
> She could have easily said it better without implying that his interest in
> scrabble made him 'beneath her.' THAT is what made it cruel.

Y'know, I didn't get that at all. In fact, I think i'd have to really work to begin to see it as cruel.

> "No, you're not my type." would have been an cruelity free, foppishness
> free way of putting it.

That's actually what I took what she said to mean. "You're interested in sports, and I'm not. You're politically proactive, and I'm not. You're the captain of the Scrabble club, and I'm not. You're interested in a ton of things I'm *not interested in*, and I'm not."

Besides, "No, you're not my type" is far too open to the resulting question "Why not?", and nothing good ever comes out of that conversation. It may not make things worse, but it doesn't make things better, and tends to be a waste of time.

(Incidentally, "fop" refers to a man (unless you're using the archaic sense in which case it just means a fool). Prima donna might suit better.)

Love and coffee,
Frances

[Hyel]

So you're saying that it's justified to use compassion as a reason to attack someone who's making it clear that they're not interested in someone else (rather than, you know, compassionately go try and help the rejected person deal with the rejection)?

I'm not saying it's the best course she might have taken, but fighting the person hurting people is one way of protecting future victims. And Aggie was annoyed, so of course she went after Penny, that's what she always does, whether justified or not.

Just to make myself even more clear. I like Aggie, I don't like Penny, but I don't think Aggie's necessarily a better person than Penny. I just like her. And don't like Penny. And others are free to feel otherwise.

[Tangent]

Each time a girl has been blunt to the point of cruelty, later I end up thanking her for her candor.

Each time, it helps break any illusions, any hopes of her changing her mind. Sometimes you need to be cruel in order to stop it from happening again. Not that it always works (ie, Fitzwilliam Darcy's rejection by Elizabeth Bennet in Pride and Prejudice), mind you. Sometimes the feelings of affection or even love are strong enough to survive the most brutal of denials. But for someone who's just been showing interest "from afar" and the like... it can tell that person "no, not ever" in language that anyone can understand.

Indeed, which is better? Penny's rejection of someone... or Aggie's half-hearted excuses?

[EntropyEnds]

How did we get into a discussion of that particular incident?

But I think we're overanalzying. Just from the tone of the comic, if you take a step back, I don't think it's meant to be a mystery or a huge plot point. I think it's meant to be read as a little bit catty, but <i>funny</i>. As in, funny-for-the-comic. An amusing line that plays on the popular-girl persona of the character and is there mostly just to prompt Aggie's reaction and that huge scene.

I don't think the incident determines whether or not Penny's a cruel person.

And, a bit off topic, but was Darcy's first name really Fitzwilliam? I never knew that.

And, Hyel, are you the same Hyel who has a fansite for Terry Pratchett's Monstrous Regiment? If so, I really love your work.

[atristain]

At times there does seem to be a love/hate relationship between these two. It's amusing sometimes... and annoying at other times. Imagine... what could these two do if they worked together? Heck, look at Karen; Karen was able to create a new self with Penny's help and Aggie's insight. The result is someone who is now able to stand on her own, even if she's turned on both Penny and Aggie. Imagine them what these two could do if they cooperated and worked together on something.

Mmmmmmhhh... Turn all the un-popular and socially outcasted into self-centered-backstabbing-beeyatches?

..followed by some hot lesbian tongue action, right?

Ha ha. That made me laughed a lot! Really, I don't think they won't go farther than doing some "lip-synching"

And about stopping the guy right on his tracks against being polite, I prefer the bare and naked... truth. (What were you thinking?) I had so many girls I had a crush with them and ex-gf's that never gave me a definitive 'No'. That really angered me. The most honest answer was with a friend of my best friend, that was a little drunk and told me exactly what she wanted... She said something like: "The only way I'm going out with you is that you buy a better car, lose some weight, and dress better (meaning designer clothes)" Man! I loved her for that! (As shallow as she was, she put the terms in a way that didn't sound like a used-cars salesman) She was honest and even when she realized how brutal she was when she returned to her (small stock of) senses and askes my friend to apologize to me on he behalf, I allways respected for that.

Advice for the ladies: Men don't understand subtleties, men don't understand half-subtleties. We sometimes need the truth as blunt as hitting a wall of a cold-shower. Your male friends will be grateful for your honesty. Some of us are blunt as that and are just full of hearing half truths. For that is politicians BS.

[Yuko no Slayer-Dryad]

She could have easily said it better without implying that his interest in scrabble made him 'beneath her.' THAT is what made it cruel. There is nothing kind about being an arrogant fop. Just because she didn't lay it on like a yowling artless lout doesn't mean it wasn't cruel. There was also very little to be confused about with what she said.

The boy was cofused by it, just to say one.

Love is blind. Besides if you read what he said, it wasn't completely beyond him.

"No. I'd never date you in a million years." If the previous doesn't give him the idea.

How is this not cruel?

Sometimes girls have to be mean to get certain boys to take no for an answer, as was brought up in an earlier arguement. While it was cruel and seemingly uneccessary in that particular case, it was basically saying 'no' in harsh way, rather than rubbing his face in the dirt subtlely just to make herself feel and look superior, which was the source of her rejection's cruelity. No one likes egomaniacs who seek to elevate themselves above others by degrading them save sheepish types who can't see through the behavior.

[Saint_37]

...and how funny it is to hear the phrase "love makes the world go 'round!"

More like "love makes the world go bonkers pull-your-hair-out CRAZY!"

[Liam_Slider]

Why does Penny look so much like Martha Stewart in the third frame?

I finally got a photobucket account, and was GIMPing.....

[Frances]

So you're saying that it's justified to use compassion as a reason to attack someone who's making it clear that they're not interested in someone else (rather than, you know, compassionately go try and help the rejected person deal with the rejection)?

I'm not saying it's the best course she might have taken, but fighting the person hurting people is one way of protecting future victims.

Maybe, if it's effective. But it's still not compassionate.

But on what planet do you think Aggie going into yet another "you shallow inferior bad person!" hissy fit in Penny's general direction is going to make a damn bit of difference?

Don't try to disguise as compassion what's simply Aggie's hatred for Penny, the social outlook she represents, and the fact that it's much more accepted than the one Aggie likes.

Love and coffee,
Frances