Military thread

[NR Pax]

Since several people have mentioned prior military experience over on the Firearms thread, I thought I would take the liberty of creating a military thread here.

Post some lies, swap some Boot Camp stories, and feel free to bring in the beer from the pub. If you are a civilian, pull up a chair and join in!

And now for the earlier remark from kinako mochi

Most of the Marines I've met as a soldier have the rhetoric, but often times are really cool when they feel they can drop their guard with you. They are held to much higher physical and combat training standards than I was in the Army, and that in itself makes for a force that needs more discipline and strict regulation than one that has more lax requirements. That discipine tends to make socialization outside other fellow Marines a bit strained typically, but of course it varies from person to person. The bravado, the bonding, the extrovertedness and taste for extreme stimulation is all due to having the confidence (and to some, extended to arrogance) that being in top shape, surmounting very difficult physical and mental challenges, and the prestige of acceptance by the Marine Corps gives a person. Those that are wise enough to stay true to the creed, bearing and honor of that title will succeed in life and transition easily into society. Those who cannot, will earn the stereotypes and rancor of those that judge them on action.

Hmm...I have been described as an "atypical Marine." For the most part I was quiet and laid back (In uniform only. I'm a psychotic bastard out of it). I rarely yelled when I had to give orders unless I was VERY annoyed with my kids (I went into Boot at 27. The people I was in charge of were my kids as far as I was concerned.).

One thing that made a difference for me was my dad. He was a career AF Officer (About 27 years in and got out as a Lt. Col). But when he was out of uniform he was "dad." He taught me to keep the military and civilian aspects of my life seperate.

[kinako mochi]

Thanks Pax! I was wondering about it myself, when I pulled up the forum and saw I was beaten to it.

Yes, I feel my statement about the Corps and the differences to other services was fair and had points both for and against, which to me represents the truth best, as pertains to my own experience.

I miss those days. A lot, sometimes. I went in at 18, saw the Berlin Wall fall in 1989, one month in permanent party, and trained at the same standards as mechanized infantry even though my MOS was a garrison job (74F, programmer/analyst). That three years with the famous 3ID (Rock of the Marne) and the 15 months of basic and tech school was alien and fascinating and ugly and frightening to this geeky JA kid from Hawaii. But my countrymen JA from WWII are some of the most decorated individuals and units in the Army, so I felt I had some big shoes to fill, and for the times, I feel I did so proudly and without regret (Desert Storm I).

I've seen buddies hang themselves on Halloween night, no idea at all that they were sick. I'd seen colonels and other officers locked up for life for molesting kids. I'd seen Fasching in Germany, and the Germans win the World Cup. I'd seen Oktoberfest and slept on top of lockers in the train station. I'd gotten lost in a foreign country by getting off the wrong stop and road marched to the next town to catch another train. I'd driven 140 mph on the Autobahn, in a Mercedes 300E taxi that four-wheel-drifted all the way around a cloverleaf, with the old driver smiling and gigling as I held on for dear life! And on and on. These things I never would have seen, done, tasted, loved, or heard, had I not decided to serve my country. Good and bad, it all adds up to experience, and that's what makes a person's life rich and complex.

*wondering if I should try and remember all the old jarhead jokes I learned in the Army*

Go ahead. We know that the Army is a running joke anyway. [/quote]

Haha

[NR Pax]

I am sad to say that my time in the Corps was rather mundane compared to your time in service. Never went overseas and for my two weeks away, I was usually sent to 29 Palms (It's Hell's Vacation Spot).

But, I put myself through when I was older than most of the DIs. I've seen and done things that I would never have had the chance to do if I hadn't joined up. And now I find myself keeping a low profile since I still have about a year left on my IRR commitment.

[EdSaari]

Not to allow the wrong impression, my Combat Engineer Battalion was Army. It doesn't matter much, when you are on your hands and knees, probing with a bayonet, clearing a mine field. It was a while ago: our composition "C" was plain "C" -- 1,2,3, ... whatever it is now, did not exist.

Ah, the memories ... walking - and trying not to walk .... to the time fuse set charge that didn't go off. I think that's where R.Crumb got the idea of walking and leaning backwards like that. Cratering charges, looking skyward where rocks the size of pianos are spinning over your head, knowing that they are coming down somewhere - hopefully not on you.
Building a Bailey Bridge with twelve (12) men and a Bridge Truck ....

The ROUGHEST training and service, by FAR in my book, is that of Coast Guard Rescue Swimmer. Jumping out of a Helicopter with a 50 pound pack into 50 foot seas..?!!! Whoo ... I worked with a wonderful female model who had spent a number of years in the Coast Guard doing that - and more. I think that she was the toughest person - truly mentally and physically TOUGH, I've ever met ... and damned attractive as well. They receive very little recogniton... all we hear is, "The Coast Guard rescued three fishermen at sea today...."

[Llewellian]

Well...to be truth, i avoided beeing in the army. Dunno why, my mom is there since 20 years (civil trainer for military air traffic controllers - the chairborne pilots), my father was there for 15 years, any of the rest of the family was there too...

But instead of doing my 12 months of duty, i choose 15 month alternative civilian service in a clinic.

Nothing religious. I just did not want to learn how to use a gun.... it was not the dirt or the training....(civilian service in a clinic is harder, ask your local nurse). ... i am not lazy or fear authority....

I really dunno why... but i just had the feeling that i dont have to - or better "dont want to" - learn how to fight.

[The_Stalker]

Well I wasnt in the military, but I'll steal two of my brothers stories because he reads WS but isnt on the forums.

He is stationed on the USCG Vigilant 210' medium endurance cutter out of Canaveral and is at sea 9 months of the year. He's been been aboard the Vigilant going on three years now, after spending a tour aboard the USCG Sherman a 378' high endurance cutter.

Last Spring, while doing drug interdiction in the caribbean, they had a morale call. The cutter temporarily became a deep sea fishing boat. A few people caught fish, but the highlight was when the captain hooked something. The usual bragging ensued, comments were made along the lines of "Wow it must be huge!" "It fighting me every inch!" and so on... The Captain finally got the line reeled in close enough to see and it was... a log. The XO got one joke in before the morale call was canceled. "Thats a mighty fine log sir, shall we haul it aboard and get the cooks to clean it up for us?"

A few years ago, after a very large drug bust, the crew of the Sherman was recieving a visit from an Admiral. The admiral addressed the crew, talking about how the Coast Guard were better than the Navy because most of the crew fulfilled more than one duty aboard the Sherman. Towards the end of his speech the Admiral had this to say "We all know and live by the motto "Semper Parabus", always ready, but I want this crew to have a new motto. For the rest of your careers remember "Semper Gumby", always be flexible."

Those are our stories. Man between my brother in the CG and my grandfather in the Navy, I've heard just about every Squid or Puddle Pirate joke out there.

[kinako mochi]

Here's a funny, and much too typical, story that happened around the time I had just set foot in Germany, defending the old Frontier

[Elliot]

I'm staying far far away from this thread.

[kinako mochi]

That would explain your post here.

Not to be exclusionary, but I feel this thread should be for those who have an issue with the military or describing experiences from the military in it, as I think Pax created it with the intention of segregating it from the rest of the Pub, so such references and terminolgy familiar to ex-mil don't weigh down any other threads with confusion. In that spirit, I'd like for the same conditions to exist for this thread, for non-applicable comments. Am I right, Wapsi vets?

That doesn't mean any non-mil can't ask a question aimed at ex-mil or mil however. It's applicable, so fine for the topic.

[Elliot]

That would explain your post here.

It's a joke that's why I put the smiley there. I just got back from Iraq and am just about to get out of the military.

[NR Pax]

Well, I did create the forum for anything military related. Even folks who have issues with the service.

And welcome home Elliot.

[EdSaari]

I know where you are coming from. Elliot. After a while the memories of all the bad shit fade, and those of the fun, and good times remain.
At the time, there doesn't seem to be many of those ... but there are a few.

Once I was in formation, and an Inspecting Officer ... Colonel or something, came up to me, and said, "What do you want out of the Army, soldier?". Combat Engineers are not very bashful ... my answer .. "ME, Sir."

I remember one really useful lesson in Leadership - one that etched itself on my memory - and I'll never forget:

We had spent the daylight (+) hours building a Timber Trestle Bridge, and afterwards had proceeded to screw around with MUCH confusion, tryng to mark a Parade Ground with stakes, for some sort of "Fancy Ceremony" to take place the following day. No one knew - had any idea - of what the hell the were doing (sounds like the Army, doesn't it!!). We were tired, very tired. Combat Engineer tired. And It was raining - hard. What else ... every time it rains I get this urge to build a bridge.

We had a New Platoon leader. A Lieutenant @#$%@#. That was his name... Lieutenant @#$%@#. By some wierd stroke of fate - even for the Army, this idiot had completed some Officers' Traning School or other, and had been placed in charge of my Platoon. REALLY WEIRD!!

He chose that moment in the Street,... that place, that time, in all that rain (Us in ponchos, and him in his raincoat, complete with "Swagger Stick" - I i]hated[/i] that thing ... I had a good idea where that should be placed - we all did), to teach us some sort of poignant lesson or other. He fumed; among other things, his last semi-coherent statement was, "You men will give me RESPECT!!"

One thing saved him from an all-out mutiny... as close as I've ever been to one... someone in the ranks boomed out, "You'll get it when you deserve it!", and whoever it was, he didn't say "Sir".

Lt. Idiot @#%@# then lost it - big time! I don't remember anything about what he was saying, until our Company Commander ... a well respected Captain... showed up. He asked the Liuetenant what was going on. About three seconds into the explanation .. "These men won't give me any respect ...", or something like that, the Captain turned to us, and said, "Everyone ... go to bed!". He turned back to Lt. Idiot ... "You too."
Shortly afterward, we had a new Platoon Leader.

I've never forgotten that. It is a great truth ... One EARNS respect .. it CANNOT be forced. When it is deserved, it will happen. I don't think there is even any way to stop it. It doesn't depend on rank, or insignia, gold bars or swagger sticks. If you deserve it, you WILL have it. There is no other way.

[kinako mochi]

*orders a Chivas on the rocks for Elliot*

I'm sorry for the confusion, Elliot. Welcome home, and thank you for your service to this great country.

Tell us about your experiences

[pablo]

Welcome home Elliot!
Much thanks for your service! And to all else who have given their time and energy to defending our country. Hats off to all of you!

[luchog]

I've never forgotten that. It is a great truth ... One EARNS respect .. it CANNOT be forced. When it is deserved, it will happen. I don't think there is even any way to stop it. It doesn't depend on rank, or insignia, gold bars or swagger sticks. If you deserve it, you WILL have it. There is no other way.

Had a track commander (armour version of a squad leader) like that in my old National Guard unit. "Former" Drill Seargent (there's no such thing as a former DS) who seemed to think that everyone in the company of lower rank than him was his to command. He had a tendency to grab soldiers from other platoons, particularly HQ platoon, to do his platoon's shit work so he could get his crew out of the armoury on time.

He got smacked down by the higher-ups after my platoon seargent was stuck late waiting for me to finish up my section (I was the only commo person); because I got nabbed to mop his platoon's room (he didn't want his crew stuck late doing it, of course). His crew couldn't do it, obviously, since they had some sort of "team morale" thing going on, and and cleanup would have eaten into their fun time too much.

[kinako mochi]

I just got back from Iraq and am just about to get out of the military.

Hey Elliot, you weren't with the 3ID, were you? If so, (or if not) which unit? We could trade some stories. I was both HHC 3ID and HHC DISCOM 3ID, originally from Wuerzburg and Kitzingen kasernes, respectively. I'm interested in how similar your experience was to mine in the desert. [/quote]

[Elliot]

I just got back from Iraq and am just about to get out of the military.

Hey Elliot, you weren't with the 3ID, were you? If so, (or if not) which unit? We could trade some stories. I was both HHC 3ID and HHC DISCOM 3ID, originally from Wuerzburg and Kitzingen kasernes, respectively. I'm interested in how similar your experience was to mine in the desert.

[/quote]Actually no I was with the 22nd Sig BDE out of Darmstadt about 2 years ago. They let me switch units while we were out in Iraq and I showed up here in the 3rd Sig Bde only to go bakc out and replace the 22nd. So consequently I served two back to back terms. The first time I went out there we were the first wave of noncombatants to cross the Kuwaiti Iraqi border. It litterally scared the crap out of me to be thinking about how I might have to pull my weapon on anyone. My SGT's calmed me down and we plowed through.

When we first went to pick up our vehicles, that was the closest thing we had to an attack on us. A mortar hit about 300 meters from our position. I quickly did what I was told letting my instincts take over. I even told the people behind me what they were messing up on. My SGT's came by and I was pretty much coherent but somewhat catanoic if you know what I mean. I'd follow orders but don't expect me to go the extra mile and know what you want me to do next. Well, when I got back in Germany to do paperwork for switching out orders, one of my SGT's, who was working on Paperwork to get out of the military entirely, took me out to dinner. He said that that was one of the most surprising amounts of courage he had ever seen from me, it appears that there were SFC's and such hiding under the vehicles that day begging people to leave them there because they were too scared to come out. I was a bit showcked I didn't know what to say.

[kinako mochi]

I never took direct fire, but in DS1 we were more concerned frankly about friendly fire than enemy fire. As we were supply and logistics, we were in the rear with the gear. But occasionally patrol duty let us have a bit of fun scoping stuff out. It was frankly a cakewalk compared to DS2.

The thing that freaked me out the most in the limited amount of actual fighting we did in the desert was stepping on a friggin toe popper. Those things weren't all that well-hidden after a good wind exposed the triggers, but man, in some places there were acres of them, literally. And I'd never, ever been so friggin' hot. In fact, one of the reasons that I never fixed the A/C in my car for several years here in Phoenix, was that after being in the North African desert for weeks, it really isn't THAT hot.

It wasn't a terribly organized conflict either, but then I'm only speaking of my own participation; I'm sure Ed has many wonderful stories to tell about the efficiency of the US military in wartime.

[Llewellian]

I'm sure Ed has many wonderful stories to tell about the efficiency of the US military in wartime.

Well, i dont want anyone to disrespect or anything... at least, i am the one here with absolutely no clue about anything military.

But everytime i am together with friends of me that have served in different armies (french, danish, german, US), i always hear about the fact that no one really wants to be "before" the US Troops.

One of my friends worked in the KFOR Contingent for the UN-Blue Helmets in Croatia.... when they drove a convoi to a city, they "accidentially" got strafed by a US Combat Aircraft (a Warthog). Luckily, nobody got hit, the pilot turned away and stopped strafing as he recognized that 3 white Tanks with the big letters "UN" on Top and the 4 Transporters with the Red Cross Sign.

Same in Kuweit or Afghanistan. Always "accidentially" friendly fire on coalition troups...my friends could tell hourlenght stories about that. They really fear to work together with US Troops. Same from an american buddy of mine that is stationed in germany after he came back from DS 1 - he catched a bullet from his own platoon in a sandstorm.

I really wonder what will come up now with the Case of that female italian reporter "Sgrena" that was a hostage for some months now in iraq.

The italian secret service paid the 6 Million Dollars ransom to get her free (the Vatican paid it) and on the transport back to the airport, the car of the italian embassy got shot down by US Troops. Sgrena survived, but 1 Agent died.

[NR Pax]

Well, i dont want anyone to disrespect or anything... at least, i am the one here with absolutely no clue about anything military.

You're not being disrespectful. We've all heard the stories about friendly fire. Hell, there's been friendly fire as long as there has been a military.

As for the Italian hostage, it was a horrific accident that should not have happened. However, I have also read accounts that the driver failed to stop at the checkpoint even as soldiers were pointing their weapons and firing warning shots as well as using arm signals.

[EdSaari]

The secret to the united States victories in world War II - and Korea:

The enemy could NOT figure out what we were doing, or where we were. How could they? ... We had no idea ourselves!!!

The way it works ... Our top brass determines strategy and issues orders ... all so stupid and incoherent that they are, for the most part, ignored. The grunts in the field, a few non-coms and a rare Second/ First Lt. and Captain muddle through and make everything work.

How to Kill a Snake - Combat Engineer History:

Orders are received from division HQ to kill a SNAKE, located at certain map coordinates.
An Engineer Recon Squad survey the area and roads ... determininng that 1000 yards of corduroy road must be built and a Bailey Bridge constructed over a river, to reach the SNAKE. The Battalion is deployed, the necessary construction is completed. A Demoliton Squad loads a truck with explosives and reaches - the SNAKE! Immediately, calculations of the explosives necessary are made - 2.4 pounds of TNT. The Charge is set; 150 pounds of TNT (might as well get rid of it), 35 Bangalore Torpedoes (brought along in case barbed wire concertinas were encountered), and a couple of odd Artillery fuses (no idea where they came from). It is primed electrically. "Fire in the Hole" three times, and the SNAKE is introudced to oblivion, along with every window and odd piece of glass within a six mile radius.

End result .... SOMEONE read the map incorrectly. The WRONG SNAKE was obliterated.

Meanwhile ... An enemy Armor column, on its way to the front, at full speed, fails to make a necessary turn.... THEIR SNAKE, which indicated a navigation landmark, was the one dispatched, and is no more. In their haste, -- they all drove into the river (a mile from where the newly erected Bailey Bridge was), resulting in the loss of all 58 Tanks.

U.S. HQ breaks out the Champagne - to celebrate a wonderful Victory - a result of their BRILLIANT strategy.

[EdSaari]

Just read this, the other day...

More Congressional Medals of Honor were awarded in World War II to members of the National Guard than to all the other services - COMBINED!

Something to think about.

[Ryalyn]

This sounds really ironic and funny. If only I knew what you were talking about. *pout*

Sometimes I really wonder what a different life I'd be living if I'd decided to go into the service instead of going to school right away. I still think of joining up every now and then, but I really don't know if I could do it. I so respect everyone that I know who've served.

[Edit: this was in responce to the first post on this page, though I suppose it works for the second one, too.]

[Llewellian]

Well... if it goes for military stories, i have only some very simple to give.

Since my mother is a trainer there for the german airforce (she trains the tower control people) since 20 years, i was practically very often on the military base as a civilian. As a kid, i was allowed to play there in the garden before the school where she teaches (i went from my junior grade school directly to the military base), later then i came often with my car and fetched her after her work time home.

Everybody knew me there. There was one other young child there too, the daughter of the platoon leader of the airbase security. Well, we played together, and later, we were really close too (have i to be more obvious?).

Her father was the dog trainer too and raised them at home - and we played very often with the security dogs or took them on a walk.

Years later, when i had a car, i was going to the military base as usual to fetch my mom to bring her home. I, as a civilian, male, very long hair, metal shirt with a communist star and sunglasses...

The security greeted me, i drove in as usual every day, to the parking lot.

This one day, a troup of americans where at this base, for a nato training of their control tower operators.

I walked there along, greeted everyone (including the higher ranks, since they knew me since i was a child) and they greeted back, the dogs did not bark (hey, they knew me) and so on.

I passed the group of young american airforce soldiers and they really looked... one asked the other in this group silently in english "Hey, you know where the toilet is?" and i, with my good ears and the knowledge of english just replied in the passing "Go left along the building, then right, third door, then left....watch the sign"...

Then they gawked... and greeted me in a military way... they seemed not to know were to put me in...

Next day, same procedure. I saw them again in their lunch break. There, at this point, i met the colonel of this military base. Since he was my neighbour and we knewed us since i was a child, i greeted him and asked for my mom with "Hi, Colonel XXXX, Sir - is she ready?" He laughed and said "Yes, only 5 mins to go..."

The young US Trainees now were very very puzzled... and saluted now even more faster the coming days.

Days later, i fetched my mom again, she laughed all the way... she told me that her US Nato training class was discussing in their lunch break who i possibly could be...knowing the place, knowed even by higher ranks and from their little german they knew, they translated themselves that i was referring in my talk to the colonel to something "female" - like they seem to do in america for their aircrafts....

[kinako mochi]

Some memory-bites from being in the Army in Germany: