Comments on 3:37 - Tues. Nov. 13, 2001

Canadian teenagers jus' kickin' it 24/7.

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Postby Josh Phillips on Mon Nov 12, 2001 11:29 am

<A HREF="http://www.avalonhigh.com/d/20011113.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.avalonhigh.com/d/20011113.html</A> <P>JOSH.
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Postby Strangeone on Mon Nov 12, 2001 11:36 am

Yes Joe, follow the path of the book.<P>Reminds me of when I was picking my major. Along with wanting something that interested me, my biggest requirement was:<P><B>DOES NOT REQUIRE MATH</B><P>Forgive me since I'm an American, but could someone explain to me how the Canadian universities operate, in terms of applications and selecting a major?
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Postby Inami on Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:25 am

Yeah, being a first year at McMaster University, I'm paying about $5,000 for this year, not counting books. Books is expensive, especially since I'm in Japanese Studies. <P>Nevertheless, this is Canadian money we're talking about, and so, uh... Not as much as it sounds.<P>As for majors: Most faculties at Ontario universities don't require you to declare a major until second year. Humanities in particular does this, with the major exception being Fine Arts/Music students, who are generally accepted on the basis of their portfolios or auditions, and hence pretty much have to declare on the way in.<P>In my case, since I'm doing a double major, I get next to no electives, and so while I'm not FORMALLY declared, I can pretty much only go into my planned double honours English/Japanese Studies major, or just settle for English.<P>So, um... Go Marauders! And Ti-Cats.
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Postby davey3000 on Tue Nov 13, 2001 2:50 am

Hmmm, sounds like Joe's Mum doesn't have much money after spending out on the caf
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Postby K A H on Tue Nov 13, 2001 2:55 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by davey3000:
<B> Whew, that's pretty steep! I know that it's about $20,000 a year at MIT, but then that is ridiculous.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Also depends on the university; add up tuition, room and board, and various other fees and some universities come out to as much as $30,000 a year. Steep, yes, but that's why they have financial aid offices. (Not that they're necessarily easy to deal with....)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Thank goodness it's free over here if you're poor enough... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> (or
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Postby ollie on Tue Nov 13, 2001 3:27 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strangeone:
<B>Yes Joe, follow the path of the book.<P>Reminds me of when I was picking my major. Along with wanting something that interested me, my biggest requirement was:<P>[b]DOES NOT REQUIRE MATH</B>
QUOTE]<P>I kind of went that way, flick through a book... "oooh, there's that university my maths teacher said was rubbish, I'll go there" <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P>Again, not being North American/Canadian, I'm not up to speed on the application process *tho i expect like here, it's over complicated, and mostly uneeded* but important to the kids (and us) for the next few weeks anyway, more as a 'start of the end' than just a form to fill in <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/frown.gif"><P>anyway I started in Civil Engineering 3 years ago, quit and moved to the Politics dept. Now I'm on the 2nd year of a Sociology major, first (or 2nd) decisions don't have to stick in the real world, never mind Avalon <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P>------------------
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Postby K A H on Tue Nov 13, 2001 6:38 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ollie:
<B>I kind of went that way, flick through a book... "oooh, there's that university my maths teacher said was rubbish, I'll go there" <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The old UCAS guide, hm? (I presume that's what you used, or at least an equivalent.) Obviously, being a maths-oriented type, I took the reverse approach! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Again, not being North American/Canadian, I'm not up to speed on the application process *tho i expect like here, it's over complicated, and mostly uneeded* but important to the kids (and us) for the next few weeks anyway, more as a 'start of the end' than just a form to fill in <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/frown.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hmm.... well, I don't know anything about the application process for undergraduates in the UK (I think any information I can get from my parents would be quite useless since a lot can change in thirty years), although the programme I'm on at the moment had a relatively painless application. Just fill in a short form and send it off with some letters of reference and an official transcript.<P>Of course, it was <I>after</I> I was accepted that suddenly I had to run the bloody Hurdle Marathon.<P>Anyway, it's been six years, but as far as I can remember, the American application process (I can't speak for the Canadian one) was not exactly over-complicated. I mean, you need to tell the universities where else you're applying, but you don't need to specify an order of preference like you do (or did, at least) in the UK. You don't need to specify a subject, either, since you don't even need to decide on a major until the end of your second year. You just apply to the university at large; you can hint at interests, if memory serves, but unless you want to study a subject whose programme differs hugely from most of the rest of the subjects, such as the fine and performing arts, you just apply to the university at large and make the decision when you get there.<P>For example, my brother wasn't entirely sure if he wanted to study biology or chemistry when he started university; he just knew he wanted to go into medicine when he got his BA (unlike in England, American universities do not, to the best of my knowledge, offer programmes in medicine to undergraduates; rather, they expect would-be medical students to take a core of courses in biology, chemistry, and related disciplines such as maths and physics, and then turn them loose on the medical schools). So he just applied to the university at large and made his decision halfway through his second year, in enough time to finish in four years.<P>By contrast, my sister knew from the very start that she wanted to go into art education, so she applied to the relevant departments at the universities rather than the universities at large.<P>And when I was applying to university, there was a specific programme at the university which I eventually decided to attend that had caught my interest, and it required a separate application.<P>Those are rare cases, though; for the most part, you apply to the university at large in America rather than to the department at the university. Of course, the story is entirely different for graduate students, for obvious reasons.<P>Both systems have their merits and flaws in my mind. The British system is frustrating in its lack of breadth, but in my opinion it compensates with greater depth. The American system seldom goes as deep into the subjects, but it allows greater freedom as far as which subjects a student wishes to, er, study, are concerned. Which is better? That could be argued either way.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>anyway I started in Civil Engineering 3 years ago, quit and moved to the Politics dept. Now I'm on the 2nd year of a Sociology major, first (or 2nd) decisions don't have to stick in the real world, never mind Avalon <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, very true, although I understand it's still true that at British universities, if you change your mind about what you want to study, it's essentially impossible to finish your entire university career in three years; you basically have to start over each time you change. (Again, there are exceptions; one of my housemates here at Cambridge changed subjects after two years and will still finish on time because of how the system is structured.)<P>My God, that was a boring post, wasn't it? Sorry everyone!<P>K.A.H.
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Postby Fuzzymoose on Tue Nov 13, 2001 6:56 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ollie:
<B>
Originally posted by Strangeone:
Yes Joe, follow the path of the book.</B>
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>Feh. Go with what you enjoy. If my mom had
followed the aptitude tests, she would have
ended up in sewing machine repair.
Find something you like to do, and you'll
never have to work a day in your life.
Theoretically.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>[QUOTE]<P>anyway I started in Civil Engineering 3 years ago, quit and moved to the Politics dept. Now I'm on the 2nd year of a Sociology major, first (or 2nd) decisions don't have to stick in the real world, never mind Avalon <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, that sounds familiar. Almost everyone I know has switched their major at least once, sometimes twice. And probably less than half of University graduates actually work in their major...<P>But Joe... I suspect his grades are much better than we think. He's lazy about notes and only does last-minute studying, but I don't recall any mention of him doing poorly in his classes.<P>The mention of tuition worries me, though. If Joe & his Mom are having problems on that end, he probably can't afford to change or experiment w/ majors until he finds what's right for him. Hopefully, he'll have lots of
grants and/or loans or workstudy offered.<P>-Fuzzymoose
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Postby Josh Phillips on Tue Nov 13, 2001 7:26 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by davey3000:
<B>Hmmm, sounds like Joe's Mum doesn't have much money after spending out on the caf
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Postby Fool on Tue Nov 13, 2001 9:07 am

That's where OSAP's <I>supposed</I> to come in.
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Postby Fool on Tue Nov 13, 2001 9:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K A H:
<B>Of course, it was after I was accepted that suddenly I had to run the bloody Hurdle Marathon.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That sounds slippery.<P>Maybe I should try that...
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Postby Wapiko on Tue Nov 13, 2001 9:18 am

Seriously, though, do you think that if Joe decided to not go on to further education and stayed there, or maybe go to Seattle to stay with his father, do you think Ceilidh would try to follow?<P>At least I know they have good potato chips in Seattle (last time I was there, anyway)<P>Wapiko-chan<P>------------------
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Postby Michael Martin on Tue Nov 13, 2001 10:32 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ollie:
<B>I kind of went that way, flick through a book... "oooh, there's that university my maths teacher said was rubbish, I'll go there" <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P>...<P>anyway I started in Civil Engineering 3 years ago</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wait, wait, wait... you were avoiding math, and you went into <I>Civil Engineering</I>? Does Engineering mean something different on the other side of the Atlantic or something?<P>In any case, most of what needs to be said about American universities has already been said, though the University of California system often requires engineers to declare at the beginning of their studies (their entrance requirements are also significantly higher than the university at large) - but then your presence in the major is guaranteed (you aren't guaranteed the major you intended at declaration time. UC Berkeley's Computer Science department only admits 50 people to the major a semester, out of several hundred applicants.)<P>Financial aid is widely available in the States, from both public and private sources, and if you go to a public school in your home State then you often get a significant tuition discount. This is primarily need-based; I got levels of financial aid that varied from $500 a year up through over $10,000, but the actual cost of my education would have been the same no matter where I went. Total cost-of-living for a student in a private university or an out-of-state public university is typically $30,000 a year, or $20,000 for an in-state public university. "Second tier" universities (such as the California State University system) or community colleges (which I suppose fill the role that trade schools <I>would</I> fill if we had those) are considerably less expensive. (Community college also generally does adult education classes that do not count towards degrees.)<P>At the higher degree level it becomes more complicated. Generally speaking, in a technical PhD program, <I>they</I> pay <I>you</I> to come, or they don't let you in at all.<P>--Michael<P>------------------
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Postby ASimPerson on Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:12 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by davey3000:
<B> Whew, that's pretty steep! I know that it's about $20,000 a year at MIT, but then that is ridiculous.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Man, I wish MIT was $20000 a year. Closer to $30000, and that's before books, housing, etc, and according to MIT itself, after all that it's around $37460.<P>Of course, not that I'd apply there, but I sent them SAT scores just so they'd send a letter back (and thus I could say for the rest of my life MIT mailed me something <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif">).<P>Colleges and universites (not to those outside the US: we often use those terms interchangably here, although a college is often smaller, it doesn't denote a different kind of program) located in the same state as the student's residents often offer very good discounts...for example, a student in Georgia can go to Georgia Tech (a top rated technology school, and espically good for a public school) costs less than $10000 a year for Georgia students (and often free becaues of the scholarship program there, those lucky bastards) whereas out of state is often $20000, which is a bargain compared to the Caltechs, Berkeleys, and MITs of the world...and it's closer to here (although I live in Alabama, not Georgia, so I don't get the benefits of their scholarship...*sigh*).
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Postby Rob on Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:46 am

(OT)Have I mentioned recently how beautiful Ceilidh's hair is?(/OT)<P>Heh, I ended up having to flip a coin to make a decision...<P>As for tuition costs, does Ontario have the highest in Canada? I know a bunch of people from there, as well as Alberta. Tuition here is supposed to be about $2500, but with my number of credits its more like $3000. Add on how #%!@! expensive it is to get housing in Vancouver, and you're looking at about $10000.
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Postby davey3000 on Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Josh Phillips:
<B> It depends heavily on the province. In Ontario, the average program costs about $4500-5000 per year (full-time studies). Technical/science programs are higher, around $5500.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Whew, that's pretty steep! I know that it's about $20,000 a year at MIT, but then that is ridiculous.<P>Thank goodness it's free over here if you're poor enough... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> (or
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Postby bunnyThor on Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by davey3000:
<B> Whew, that's pretty steep! I know that it's about $20,000 a year at MIT, but then that is ridiculous.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's not as ridiculous as it used to be. I'm currently goint to The Art Institute of Portland to get my Computer Animation B.S., and I'm paying about $4,500.00 per <I>quarter</I>, which is actually fairly typical for non-subsidized institions of higher learning in the states. <P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
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Postby Klaus Petersen on Wed Nov 14, 2001 12:14 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bunnyThor:
<B> One of the benefits of living in a third-world country like Europe I suppose...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>How very American of you!<P>*raises one eyebrow . . . thinks of all the American high-tech companies that have R&D departments in Europe . . . *
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Postby Josh Phillips on Wed Nov 14, 2001 12:18 pm

bunnyThor The Troll. I had hoped I wouldn't see the day. ;-)<P>JOSH.
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Postby Klaus Petersen on Wed Nov 14, 2001 12:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Josh Phillips:
<B>bunnyThor The Troll. I had hoped I wouldn't see the day. ;-)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>bunnyThor is not trolling. He/she is just giving out a good ribbing . . . in the hope of getting one in return. And he/she did . . . <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"><P>
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