[11-03-03] Woo hoo!

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[11-03-03] Woo hoo!

Postby bunnyThor on Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:08 pm

It's about damn time!

I'm shocked that the relationship lasted this long. Both of them are so messed up that they are emotionally children. But whereas Joyce is 11 going on 12, Walky seems to be permanently stuck at 6. Joyce was more of an older sister to him than a lover. Review the whole "Let's go dancing" sequence and you'll see what I mean.

Now the doors are back open for Joyce and Joe to get together, as is right and proper.
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Postby Fata_Morgana on Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:21 pm

There's one thing we can agree on. :P

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Postby Pope William T Wodium on Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:29 pm

NO! JOYCE AND WALKY FOREVER!

If I have to get God himself to cross over from Sinfest, so be it.

*waves J&W flag, burning though it may be*
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Postby Bobthespirit on Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:54 pm

This doesn't necessarily mean they will break up, but this is certainly a huge blow. For a while it seemed like Joyce was latching onto Walky because he's the only one who liked her as a woman, but now she's sane and grown up enough for other men to feel the same way.

But let's analyze this for a second. Walky probably heard what Joyce said as "Dina didn't conform to christian beliefs so she deserves to be tortured" whereas Walky believes Dina was deserving of much better than she was treated in life. And since he feels responsible for her death Joyce is telling him that *he* sent her to eternal torture. Both characters' responses are understandable, yet billigerent and unsympathetic at the same time.
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Postby bunnyThor on Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:07 pm

Pffft.

Joyce and Walky should never have happened. Yes, I can see Walky pining after Joyce. Joyce is after all (a) a hottie, (b) a nice girl, (c) available, (d) not concescending to that idiot Walky, (e) a hottie, (f) someone you want to put an arm around and protect from the big, bad world, (g) proximate, (h) *not* your sister, (i) pure and good, and (j) a hottie. Why wouldn't he want her?

Walky's standard feature list, however, is not so flattering. Walky is (a) disgusting, (b) completely non-sexy, (c) so goofy he becomes a hazard to be around, (d) insecure, (e) devoid of any social skills, (f) willfully ignorant, (g) apparently stupid, (h) reckless, (i) irresposible, and let's not forget (j) immature and childish. This is not an endearing set of characteristics for anyone over the age of 2.

I think the only reason why Joyce might have settled on liking Walky is that he was the lesser of the three evils she lived with. Jason was cold, distant, and sarcastic. Mike was completely unlovable by anyone who didn't hate herself. Short of doing something wacky like, say, going out and meeting other SEMME agents, Joyce was sort of forced into falling for--or if not for, then towards--Walky. Notice when Joe was introduced as another possible option how fast Joyce took that option up? Aside from Joe's major promiscuity addiction, he's a great match for Joyce.

So to Walky & Joyce fans everywhere, I can only ask you to please, please stop smoking crack. It's bad for your brain and it can kill you. Thank you.
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Postby Uniqueusername on Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:41 pm

Pope William T Wodium wrote:*waves J&W flag, burning though it may be*

Yeah, Jason and Walky forever!!!
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Postby Pope William T Wodium on Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:45 pm

Is anyone up to making a list of ten negatives for Joyce and ten positives for Walky, just to balance things out?

Also, bunnyThor, did you not read the archives, or were you just on drugs when you did? Joyce and Walky were perfect for each other - and then Joyce fscked up with the mindwiper, pissing off Walky, who turned to Dina to spite her (Joyce). Later (please don't press for details, it's been a while) Joyce gets hold of religion, adding a difference between them; but I have to ask - is there another pair of characters better matched (before the last few strips, of course)?

They're frikken soulmates. They'll pull through this. You'll see.

/incoherence
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Re: [11-03-03] Woo hoo!

Postby silent watcher on Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:11 pm

bunnyThor wrote:It's about damn time!


Hmm, I'm sensing some negative energy here... :)

I dunno about this. I didn't think Joyce and Walky was that much of an affront to nature, but I did think that J&J would be better than J&W (easier to pronounce). But, you know, the comic's name is "It's Walky" and Joyce is the only remaining main character from the predecessor comic, so they seem destined to one another. I agree, they're supposed to be soulmates and Willis isn't really one to cave in to reader pressure.

You see, if you look at most forms of media, you'll usually see a few characters who have to get together, or else. Mulder and Scully, Ross and Rachel, Arwen and that hairy ranger king-dude, Ara-something (they do get together, right?). If they don't, it either feels kinda weird or it's incorporated into the plot as a tragic story of lost love.

Then again, you could sense a bit of that between Joyce and Joe, so...

In conclusion, I know nothing.
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Re: [11-03-03] Woo hoo!

Postby Marcos on Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:26 pm

silent watcher wrote:Arwen and that hairy ranger king-dude, Ara-something (they do get together, right?).


If you've read the book, you'd know that Arwen and Aragorn have been together for the past sixty years or so.
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Postby DarkBryy on Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:28 pm

Walky and Joyce shouldn't be over from something like this, but I think rather than talk it out, Walky will walk. He tries so hard to tell himself that he isn't a leader, that his destiny isn't to be a leader, and here comes Joyce who forces him to face that (as in previous strips).
And now Joyce, who has been his rooter, is basically saying that he CAN'T be the emotional leader.

Plus, she said his ex who everyone shit on and died to save everyone- including her- is in hell.
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Postby Charles RB on Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:07 pm

bunnyThor wrote:Joyce and Walky should never have happened.


It should have happened ages before.

But it didn't, and the characters have changed too much for it to work right now. We've all been seeing it start to bleed copiously, and now it's appears to be finally dying.

They're frikken soulmates. They'll pull through this. You'll see.


Danny and Sal are soulmates. Look what happened there.

(I'm still pissed at the lack of Danny/Sal relationship.)
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Re: [11-03-03] Woo hoo!

Postby silent watcher on Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:14 pm

Marcos wrote:If you've read the book, you'd know that Arwen and Aragorn have been together for the past sixty years or so.


I did read the book, and I know they have been together for quite awhile (are you sure it's sixty? Aragorn has aged quite well for a human). I meant do they end up staying together, as it's been also quite awhile since I read Return of the King (i prefer The Hobbit).

But I digress. I've been thinking about this whole Joyce/Walky relationship and you know, I think both of them have aged, have matured. Joyce is no longer the psychotic freak we saw in her college years, but her developmental path has been a different one than Walky's.

Walky has had to deal with his own issues. I could go on forever about things he's lost, but here's the main points.

- Lost his identity and cover as an idiot
- Forced to alter himself.
- Forced to deal with change.
- Forced to face the real world.
- Forced to be a leader.
- Forced to deal with physical loss.

Walky has changed himself, but on a different road from Joyce's and it's led them to move apart. The Walky we see now is attempting to deal with his new life with anger and an overabundance of confidence. Joyce is on some personal spiritual quest. There's more than that involved of course, but it's often hard to verbalize intangible concepts.

So, whether or not they're supposed to be soulmates, we know that they are not happy and they're discontent with each other, whether they'll admit or not. Discontent alone is no reason to break off a relationship, but it interests me how they're so willing to change, but not for each other. Of course, i could extremely wrong about all this, as well.

So in conclusion, I pretty much...know nothing. (why does anyone listen to me anyway?)

(obvious answer: they don't.)

(on a tangential topic: whoa, Pope! 52 posts and you've just been here four days? I've been here for almost a half-year now and I don't even have 80!)
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Re: [11-03-03] Woo hoo!

Postby Pope William T Wodium on Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:30 pm

silent watcher wrote:[lots of stuff]

So in conclusion, I pretty much...know nothing. (why does anyone listen to me anyway?)

(obvious answer: they don't.)

(on a tangential topic: whoa, Pope! 52 posts and you've just been here four days? I've been here for almost a half-year now and I don't even have 80!)

Oh, didn't anyone tell you? I'm rabid. That's how I got my stripes.

I love it when people say what I think*; then I can just say, "Yeah, what he said," and not have to worry about fscking it up trying to say it myself. So, yeah, what you said.

I would like to add that while this may not be the best time for Joyce and Walky, I still believe that they will pull through. Maybe break up first, but in the end, pull through.

*Actually, Xaxnar did this so well (twice in a row, no less!) that I proclaimed him Official Speaker of the Inarticulable Thoughts of Pope William T Wodium. If you see him post, please tell me so I can read it and find out what I said.
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Re: [11-03-03] Woo hoo!

Postby Keradon on Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:35 pm

bunnyThor wrote:Review the whole "Let's go dancing" sequence and you'll see what I mean.

Now the doors are back open for Joyce and Joe to get together, as is right and proper.


A.) The "Dancing around the Issue" Story arc involves two young people having a good time. It's a first for him, and she wanted him to try something new.

B.) Joe and Joyce - I'm sorry, but Joe would probably not even consider a person with the mentality you describe. He probably wouldn't even consider a person with had her current religious attitude.
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Re: [11-03-03] Woo hoo!

Postby Zathras10 on Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:35 pm

silent watcher wrote:I did read the book, and I know they have been together for quite awhile (are you sure it's sixty? Aragorn has aged quite well for a human).


Being of closer-to-pure Numenorean stock, Aragorn was, like the great Sea Kings of the 2nd Age but to a lesser extent, blessed with a much longer life-span than that of typical Men of Middle Earth.

Arwen, being the daughter of one of the Peredhil, the half-Elf Elrond, was, like her father, effectively immortal in the Elvish sense (can still be killed by physical violence) until making the choice to live as one of Elvenkind or one of Humankind. And even then, the whole longer-life-blood-of-Kings bit still kicks in, her being the grand-daughter of Earendil.

Okay, so I'm a Tolkien geek.

silent watcher wrote:I meant do they end up staying together, as it's been also quite awhile since I read Return of the King (i prefer The Hobbit).


Actually, bitter divorce, nasty custody battle, as documented in the little-known supplement edited by Tolkien's son Christopher, "Unread Tales," wherein we also learn that Gondor not being a community-property kingdom, Arwen didn't get half of the realm but instead had to settle for Rhovanion and parts of Near Harad.

[In all seriousness, I recall one of the Appendices to RotK telling that Estel (Aragorn) lived a life long even by the standards of Numenoreans of his day, and upon his death Arwen, though now mortal, took a ship into the unreachable West, to live out what was left of her her human life-span in the Undying Lands.]

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Postby Pagedown on Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:56 pm

I don't think the big question is whether or not J&W will still be an item (they'll get back together, just watch), as is this the end of Joyce's "God Girl" phase? Clearly, there is no God in the Roomies/Walkyverse, and ditching the burden of faith is the last step on Joyce's road to wellville.
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Postby Pope William T Wodium on Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:06 pm

Pagedown wrote:I don't think the big question is whether or not J&W will still be an item (they'll get back together, just watch), as is this the end of Joyce's "God Girl" phase? Clearly, there is no God in the Roomies/Walkyverse, and ditching the burden of faith is the last step on Joyce's road to wellville.
Uh, oh . . . my Religidar just got a blip. I think I'll sit this one out . . .

. . . but of course I'll be watching from a safe distance :) .
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Postby Fata_Morgana on Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:02 pm

DarkBryy wrote:Plus, she said his ex who everyone shit on and died to save everyone- including her- is in hell.


Not to be nitpicky, but she never actually said that - he did. She didn't contradict him, but I'd like to believe that she's at least confused or in doubt about the situation. In my personal opinion as a catholic, if I were in Joyce's situation, I would choose to believe that those who die protecting thier friends are "baptised by fire" and are saved in that way. After all, "No greater love is there than this: that a man lay down his life for a friend." You'd think Joyce would remember that passage.

Pope William T Wodium wrote:
Pagedown wrote:I don't think the big question is whether or not J&W will still be an item (they'll get back together, just watch), as is this the end of Joyce's "God Girl" phase? Clearly, there is no God in the Roomies/Walkyverse, and ditching the burden of faith is the last step on Joyce's road to wellville.
Uh, oh . . . my Religidar just got a blip. I think I'll sit this one out . . .


You'll get no argument from me. I think Willis has been trying to break Joyce out of her "God Girl" image as Pagedown calls it for some time. I'm just surprised he took so long.

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Postby showler on Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:16 pm

Well, if you think she has been in a "God Girl" phase (which is possible, I'm not sure myself), perhaps this is the beginning of her developing a mature and reasoned approach to her faith. Joyce learning that faith is mostly internal and not external (follow the instructions in the bible to the letter, bake at 350F and, poof, you've got eternal salvation) would be a good thing for her. That doesn't mean that she can't follow the Church's teachings, or believe in her God, but it does mean that she has to accept that being a "good God girl" will not automagically guarantee that things will work out happily for her.

Slightly off-topic, what do people think of "Joan of Arcadia"?
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Postby bunnyThor on Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:25 pm

showler wrote:That doesn't mean that she can't follow the Church's teachings, or believe in her God, but it does mean that she has to accept that being a "good God girl" will not automagically guarantee that things will work out happily for her.


Or, she could decide that not being a "good God girl" will not automagically guarantee that things will work out crappily for her. It ain't a true crisis of faith unless things could just as easily go either way.

Slightly off-topic, what do people think of "Joan of Arcadia"?


Not enough beheadings or gratuitous nudity.
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Postby showler on Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:44 pm

bunnyThor wrote:
Slightly off-topic, what do people think of "Joan of Arcadia"?


Not enough beheadings or gratuitous nudity.


That would require it to be on a cable channel or a Canadian network.
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Re: [11-03-03] Woo hoo!

Postby summersong on Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:24 pm

Zathras10 wrote:h.

Arwen, being the daughter of one of the Peredhil, the half-Elf Elrond, was, like her father, effectively immortal in the Elvish sense (can still be killed by physical violence) until making the choice to live as one of Elvenkind or one of Humankind. And even then, the whole longer-life-blood-of-Kings bit still kicks in, her being the grand-daughter of Earendil.

Okay, so I'm a Tolkien geek.

[In all seriousness, I recall one of the Appendices to RotK telling that Estel (Aragorn) lived a life long even by the standards of Numenoreans of his day, and upon his death Arwen, though now mortal, took a ship into the unreachable West, to live out what was left of her her human life-span in the Undying Lands.]

Z., uhm, also a smart-ass


numenorian kings are blessed with a gift that they can choose to die early. Aragorn chose to end his life before suffering the weaknesses of old age (which is doing good for 200) though Arwen begs him to spend more time with her, she respects his choice.

By the time Arwen is widowed all the ships bound to the west have departed, leaving but a few elves left at Rivendell. she cannot bear to return to them, so she goes to a now empty Lorien, to the hill where she and Aragorn swore to marry and dies of grief.
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Postby mephron on Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:24 am

Pope William T Wodium wrote:Uh, oh . . . my Religidar just got a blip. I think I'll sit this one out . . .

. . . but of course I'll be watching from a safe distance :) .


You're a Pope. You don't get to sit this one out! Issue a Papal Bull or something! Some kind of declaration! Don't just sit there!

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Postby Zathras10 on Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:01 am

summersong wrote:
Zathras10 wrote:[In all seriousness, I recall one of the Appendices to RotK telling that Estel (Aragorn) lived a life long even by the standards of Numenoreans of his day, and upon his death Arwen, though now mortal, took a ship into the unreachable West, to live out what was left of her her human life-span in the Undying Lands.]


By the time Arwen is widowed all the ships bound to the west have departed, leaving but a few elves left at Rivendell. she cannot bear to return to them, so she goes to a now empty Lorien, to the hill where she and Aragorn swore to marry and dies of grief.
flowers bloom eternally on her grave.


Okay, so apparently I was smoking *crack* when I wrote that previous post. From the source: "There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring had not yet come, she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea."

Yeesh.

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Postby silent watcher on Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:29 pm

showler wrote:Slightly off-topic, what do people think of "Joan of Arcadia"?


Lesse, another stupid CBS attempt to maintain their image as "family-oriented conservative network, protectoring you and your children from the evil sinners, dissenters, foreigners and progressivists in the world today." It's like "Touched by an Angel" mixed with "Seventh Heaven" only now they'll definitely get kids to watch their show because the main character is a young teenage girl! (sarcasm) In truth, it merely perpetuates religious stereotypes (prophet or miracle worker infused by God's strength and voice! angels walking among us! working against the dark demons of hell!), so people, including many Christians, get a slanted view of the religion.
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