[3:127] Feels

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[3:127] Feels

Postby ASimPerson on Mon Jun 23, 2003 10:53 pm

As I said on IRC..."DAMN YOU PHILLIPS" (to put a twist on Animal's IW! tagline). I say this because we'll have to wait another 24 hours or so for any new information....

Is Ceilidh crying after panel 2? She seems to be sniffling, at the very least.
Last edited by ASimPerson on Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [06/24] Feels

Postby Jersey Otaku on Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:00 am

ASimPerson wrote:Is Ceilidh crying after panel 2? She seems to be sniffling, at the very least.


Those are definitely tears, yes.

You get the feeling that Ceilidh is confused in .4... but at the same time, eerily accepting, or at worst admittedly unfeeling or apathetic - I get the feeling she's crying more over the expected loss of Joe, but the general failure to live out a successful relationship. I'm probably wrong, or i'm misconstruing what i'm seeing, most likely. Either way, goddamn.
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Re: [06/24] Feels

Postby Davie daWeird on Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:14 am

Jersey Otaku wrote:...goddamn.


To quote Pulp Fiction: "I SAID GOD DAMN! ...God damn God damn God damn..."

(Frivolous speculation:) Could the thing we missed have to do with college plans? He loves her -- she's happy. He's going away for college -- she's afraid of the consequences of that? I dunno, just a thought.

Man, I stayed up this late and I didn't even get to find out what the big revelation was. God damn!

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Postby MarkusN on Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:02 am

OK, since Sim beat Darth by one minute I'll post here.

Linkage:
Now
Final

Geezum H. Christ, I don't know what I am to say here (apart from the emotion that the virtual human has so aptly worded in the opening post).

So our twisted author (No, I'm not Fiend) manages to wipe the slate clean in one fell sweep. Everything is open again for the end (well not completely, those kids have made some very important experiences in the process that are going to influence their actions in future, but still).

Josh, here, wrote:The current chapter is part of a series called "The End," and that series is actually in four parts (covering four major storylines, but not exclusively so). It's so titled because, not only is the story drawing to a close, but because the status quo is going to end spectacularly.

You could say so, friends and neighbours, you could say so.

.1 So have we, Ceilidh, so have we (many of us, anyway).
.2 So quite obviously your heart didn't do a somersault upon hearing those words (understandable, given the context, but, yeah)
.3 which disappoints you greatly
.4 as the realization sinks in that Joe might have been right.

Josh, a bit further down in the same post, wrote:And obviously that's going to affect Ceilidh, but I won't ruin the surprise in that arena (and I still believe that, in the end and despite a seemingly simple outcome, it *will* surprise).
Well, judging from our reactions you were quite right about this. Poor DocEB, he may fall out with our author, finally.

I wrote:Uh, Oh. look at those lower lids. Seems we'll get teary eyed Ceilidh shortly.
I predicted the future, I predicted the future! *does the snoopy dance*
Well just one strip downstream, a quite obvious future and for all the wrong reasons, but hey!

.2, .3 Joe, being on the receiving end this time, doesn't seem to like the outcome too much. Or are his downcast eyes just his difficulty to look at Ceilidh crying?
.4 And again I'm thrown back 15 months.
Amazing for me, considering she is speaking in riddles, is how quickly Joe gets a grasp of what Ceilidh is saying. I'll never accuse him of being clueless again.

Looks as if I'll be denied the sight of violent Ceilidh this time, though. Drat!

The Ceilidh&Phoebe camp can go on PSL-ing again, though. After all, with Ceilidh being more in love with the idea of being in love than with a real person, a whole new deck of cards has ben dealt. (Stop it with the weird metaphors already!)
Come to think of that, we have quite a bit of evidence against that. But as Josh has stated several times, sexual orientation is neither a binary state, nor is is it final at the age of our protagonists. Plus, the last linked evidence really isn't, because all it says is that Ceilidh wants to be considered heterosexual. It is evidence, however, that Ceilidh might have been after Joe for all the wrong reasons.


And, Josh, I'm never again going to complain about continuity problems with stage props either. I don't know how you feel about this, but that table there really does not enhance the picture. (Unless you wanted it to be there to separate the two, that is. Cause, frankly, Ceilidh could use a hug right now, don't you think so?)

I intended to write here that you shouldn't break your back (and your sleep patterns) by finishing comics late at night, but I can see now that you had to get that off your chest.

So I lied. I managed to be quite verbose about this again. Sue me.

BTW, anybody see Marcos? Or is he still MIA after the party?
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Postby Doctor Emmit Brown on Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:39 am

:cry:

Damn you Phillips indeed.

Don't worry though. I'll keep reading. There's still lots of time left to tie other loose ends and maye even do something else with this relationship. I'll just have to wait and see what happens next.
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Postby GrassyNoel on Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:00 am

MarkusN wrote:
I wrote:Uh, Oh. look at those lower lids. Seems we'll get teary eyed Ceilidh shortly.
I predicted the future, I predicted the future! *does the snoopy dance*

That was an each-way bet, as she could just as well have cried with joy had the story gone the other way. Sneaky person Markus.

MarkusN wrote:And, Josh, I'm never again going to complain about continuity problems with stage props either. I don't know how you feel about this, but that table there really does not enhance the picture. (Unless you wanted it to be there to separate the two, that is. Cause, frankly, Ceilidh could use a hug right now, don't you think so?)

Look, sorry Markus, but I have to disagree with you on this :) I really, really like the table there. You can see that they're not sitting across the table in this strip. (e.g. in panel 3 both of Ceilidh's arms are clearly on our side of the table.) It isn't separating them; they're both actually sitting beside the table. This would not be obvious had Josh drawn a closer view with just their upper bodies 'in shot', as in panel 1. Because there's nothing but fresh air between them (plus perhaps the edge of the table but not the bulk of it), either one is free to jump up without impedance and give the other a hug, which is what they both need. (I agree with you on that :)) So I reckon the position of the table is important and quite a strong statement. Well done Josh!

Heh, is that ABA (now that I know what it means)?
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Postby MarkusN on Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:21 am

GrassyNoel wrote:Sneaky person Markus.
Damn! Foiled again!

GN wrote:Look, sorry Markus, but I have to disagree with you on this :) I really, really like the table there. You can see that they're not sitting across the table in this strip. (e.g. in panel 3 both of Ceilidh's arms are clearly on our side of the table.) It isn't separating them; they're both actually sitting beside the table. This would not be obvious had Josh drawn a closer view with just their upper bodies 'in shot', as in panel 1. Because there's nothing but fresh air between them (plus perhaps the edge of the table but not the bulk of it), either one is free to jump up without impedance and give the other a hug, which is what they both need. (I agree with you on that :)) So I reckon the position of the table is important and quite a strong statement. Well done Josh!
Well, I did notice that the table is not really between them, so you're right, I shouldn't have made that remark. But if they are sitting beside the table, thus it isn't an obstacle to them getting close at all, it isn't really required. It is, however, in a position that explains why it wasn't visible in 3:126.4. About that whole more than upper body thing, I think that's because Josh wants us to remeber that Ceilidh is "dressed up" and still a damn cute sight for Joe to behold.
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Postby Doctor Emmit Brown on Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:21 am

Ok, I looked at teh comic again, and I must say I'm a trifle confused. Yes JOe said he loves Ceilidh (assuming he knows what that means), but is unwilling to continue a relationship with her while he's lusting after another. Ok, but now it seems Ceilidh is a little oblivious to her feelings as well, and doesn't know if she's sad about the potential breakup (I still ahve hopes for these two, far fetched as they may be), or not. What is she feeling? I think she may have something majorly important to say tommorow.

And I do want this one to work out mostly because I relate the most with Joe. I think I would act the same way if I were placed in most of the same situations he finds himself caught in from time to time, especially when it comes to talking to people of the female persuasion. If it works out for him, then maybe I have a shot...

Ah well. It's not my story...
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Postby MarkusN on Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:29 am

Doctor Emmit Brown wrote:Ok, I looked at teh comic again, and I must say I'm a trifle confused. Yes JOe said he loves Ceilidh (assuming he knows what that means), but is unwilling to continue a relationship with her while he's lusting after another. Ok, but now it seems Ceilidh is a little oblivious to her feelings as well, and doesn't know if she's sad about the potential breakup (I still ahve hopes for these two, far fetched as they may be), or not. What is she feeling?

OK, how I read this:

Ceilidh has been waiting for Joe to say "I love you" for the longest time. Now he has said it. Yet she doesn't feel the waves of joy that she was expecting. Telling her that she probably has been hunting a phantom for the last two years.
Not sure if she's right with her interpretation, expecting to be able to feel joy in a strained situation like this may be asking too much, but the writing for a possible (not certain) outcome like this has been on the wall for the longest time.
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Postby Spaceman42 on Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:31 am

Further evidence against C&P, as well as [perhaps] for the J&C breakup:
[20:04] <Staedtler> I think Avalon's gonna end rather depressingly. :-/
[20:04] <Staedtler> Well... it'll end in a way that makes sense, but I doubt many readers are gonna be happy with it.
...
[20:04] <Staedtler> <Readers> What? Ceilidh and Phoebe didn't get naked at commencement?




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Postby MarkusN on Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:48 am

[20:04] <Staedtler> <Readers> What? Ceilidh and Phoebe didn't get naked at commencement?
Well, if said commencement takes place on August 18 it would be a disappointment indeed. ;)

[19:47] *** Now talking in #avalon
[19:47] *** Topic is 'http://www.avalonhigh.com | Avalon should go all It's Walky and start killing off well-liked characters. Discuss.'
I honestly can't see Josh doing that, and he has both in the forum and in the "about" text confirmed that he won't do such a thing. I think he is just yanking IRC-ers chains to provoke discussion.
It could also be a dark mood speaking, though, you never know when he changes his mind.

Looks as if I have to install IRC, now that I'm on ADSL, to log those spoilerfests that these IRC jam-sessions obviously are...
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Postby GrassyNoel on Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:51 am

Oh no. Seriously, I hate doing this, but I'll get it over with as quickly as possible:
<grammar Nazi>
Panel 1 should read 'If I ever did'. 'Did' refers to Ceilidh hearing the words, so the pronoun should refer to Ceilidh.
</grammar Nazi>

I hope that wasn't too painful :)
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Postby MarkusN on Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:07 am

GrassyNoel wrote:Oh no. Seriously, I hate doing this, but I'll get it over with as quickly as possible:
<grammar Nazi>
Panel 1 should read 'If I ever did'. 'Did' refers to Ceilidh hearing the words, so the pronoun should refer to Ceilidh.
</grammar Nazi>

I hope that wasn't too painful :)

Heh! I was noticing it too. My interpretation was different, though. I'd have made this fit like this (note the subtle difference in meaning to your interpretation):

Ceilidh p:s "Joe, I've been wanting to hear you say these words for so long"
Ceilidh p:s "But I never knew what I would do if you ever did."

Works both ways, but I find it kind of hard to believe that one would mix up the subject of a sentence. I think using an auxiliary verb that doesn't precisely match the previous sentence is the "lesser offense". Can happen easily if you do some editing and rephrasing.
Plus, it really does not work without Ceilidh mentioning Joe in there. She doesnt want to hear "the word" from just anybody... or does she?

*shuffles off to save this collectors item before Josh fixes it.*
(After all, he has already undone my ABA of yesterday; the summary pages are gone from the archive. Sometimes this man is fast.)
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Postby GrassyNoel on Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:23 am

MarkusN wrote:Looks as if I have to install IRC, now that I'm on ADSL, to log those spoilerfests that these IRC jam-sessions obviously are...

I could be on ADSL soon, as my two phone lines + my ISP are costing about as much as an entry-level ADSL link. Hm.
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Postby MarkusN on Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:31 am

GrassyNoel wrote:
MarkusN wrote:Looks as if I have to install IRC, now that I'm on ADSL, to log those spoilerfests that these IRC jam-sessions obviously are...

I could be on ADSL soon, as my two phone lines + my ISP are costing about as much as an entry-level ADSL link. Hm.

Good things about ADSL:
Flat rate (at least here; dial up costs depending on connection time; our local calls are not free)
I installed a router, so now the whole family can surf over one link.

Bad things about ADSL:
Fast connection doesn't help if your machine can't keep up with the data rushing in... MS Explorer on Mac is a nightmare, especially as a download engine.
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Postby RJ Shep on Tue Jun 24, 2003 9:36 am

MarkusN wrote:
GrassyNoel wrote:Oh no. Seriously, I hate doing this, but I'll get it over with as quickly as possible:
<grammar Nazi>
Panel 1 should read 'If I ever did'. 'Did' refers to Ceilidh hearing the words, so the pronoun should refer to Ceilidh.
</grammar Nazi>

I hope that wasn't too painful :)

Heh! I was noticing it too. My interpretation was different, though. I'd have made this fit like this (note the subtle difference in meaning to your interpretation):

Ceilidh p:s "Joe, I've been wanting to hear you say these words for so long"
Ceilidh p:s "But I never knew what I would do if you ever did."



Personally, although what Josh has Ceilidh say is indeed grammatically incorrect, I've heard people speak so. Frequently.

As far as the subject, Markus, I read it as 'if I (Ceilidh) had ever known', as Neil did.
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Postby Josh Phillips on Tue Jun 24, 2003 9:46 am

Doctor Emmit Brown wrote:Ok, I looked at teh comic again, and I must say I'm a trifle confused. Yes JOe said he loves Ceilidh (assuming he knows what that means), but is unwilling to continue a relationship with her while he's lusting after another.

Oh man, this is why I need forum discussion so much. It lets me know when I've inserted ABA, so I can run with it. :-)

But in all seriousness, this discussion is verifying that I've written Joe correctly. He's behaving consistently with what I want out of his storyline. Joe is doing what he thinks is right and is what he's comfortable with. Time will tell whether he's *actually* doing the right thing (and yeah, we'll see this outcome before Avalon ends... I'm not pulling a B5/Garibaldi by leaving the conclusion beyond the scope of the series).

MarkusN wrote:Ceilidh has been waiting for Joe to say "I love you" for the longest time. Now he has said it. Yet she doesn't feel the waves of joy that she was expecting. Telling her that she probably has been hunting a phantom for the last two years.

Yep... Ceilidh just realized that she enjoys the hunt for love more than love itself.

That's something I really wanted to bring out a long time ago. Remember when Joe and topless Ceilidh had that chat in her bedroom last summer? I had originally planned Joe to cut things off then (and he was supposed to explain to her that she didn't really want Joe's love... she wanted to *chase* Joe's love). But Joe has this way of re-writing my scripts, so things turned out far different from what I expected. His procrastination rubs off on me or something.

MarkusN wrote:Plus, it really does not work without Ceilidh mentioning Joe in there. She doesnt want to hear "the word" from just anybody... or does she?

Perhaps the concept above makes this moot?

GrassyNoel wrote:Oh no. Seriously, I hate doing this, but I'll get it over with as quickly as possible:
<grammar Nazi>
Panel 1 should read 'If I ever did'. 'Did' refers to Ceilidh hearing the words, so the pronoun should refer to Ceilidh.
</grammar Nazi>

You're right, her grammar suxx0rs. But, a) she's not emotionally stable enough to get it right in one try... ;-) And b) there's nothing wrong with Ceilidh's dialogue at the top of panel 1 (ie. she doesn't specify that she wanted to her those words *from Joe*). But then she kinda qualifies it (too late now, but whatever) in the bottom dialogue.

Now, the *real* reason is that I wrote the bottom dialogue without remembering what exactly I wrote up top. If I had been more careful, I'd have written "but I never knew what I'd do if you ever said them."

As for the IRC channel... if I get a comic done a few minutes to an hour before midnight, I'll usually kick around in #avalon until the site updates (at which time I'll constantly reload the forum to see if anyone's posted comments. :-) ). So I'll end up talking about Avalon stuff with whoever's in the channel, and that's usually where these quotes come from. It's a time-killer, really. :-)

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Postby Mcfarlane Salsa on Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:05 am

Josh, as long as you don't resort to this, then bring it on...
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Postby svenman on Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:14 pm

The way I see it, Joe has just attempted to fix his mistake that he committed here (one of the all time Avalon classics, by the way) and which I suspect he has had second thoughts about ever since.

The thing is just, time has passed and stuff has happened since then, and what would have been the right thing then isn't necessarily the right thing now...
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Postby Tangent on Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:05 pm

Actually one of the odd rules of grammer are that if a segment of the native-english-speaking population speaks that way, then it is no longer ungrammatical. Thus saying "ain't" is actually grammatical by the theory of grammer. I wanted to throttle my Grammer and Style Professor when I found that out because it does not synch with what I was taught all throughout high school. ;)
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Postby svenman on Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:25 pm

Tangent wrote:I wanted to throttle my Grammer and Style Professor when I found that out because it does not synch with what I was taught all throughout high school. ;)


That's the difference between prescriptive and descriptive grammar (the former tries to set down rules how people should speak, the latter tries to describe how people really do).
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Postby MarkusN on Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:27 pm

Tangent wrote:Actually one of the odd rules of grammer are that if a segment of the native-english-speaking population speaks that way, then it is no longer ungrammatical.

I refuse to obey the rules of a concept spelled "Grammer". ;)

[20:04] <Staedtler> <Readers> What? Ceilidh and Phoebe didn't get naked at commencement?
If Phoebe is going to wear this dress for the party that's undoubtedly to follow we have a slim chance to at least get nekkid Phoebe there ;)

Hey Josh, using IRC as a timekiller is a big step ahead of using it as a procrastination device.
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Postby Animal on Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:07 pm

MarkusN wrote:
Tangent wrote:Actually one of the odd rules of grammer are that if a segment of the native-english-speaking population speaks that way, then it is no longer ungrammatical.

I refuse to obey the rules of a concept spelled "Grammer". ;)


That's "grammar." :wink:
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Postby GrassyNoel on Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:08 pm

RJ Shep wrote:If anyone has read Harry Potter 5 yet, please PM me. I've just finished it and am mad to discuss it.


Get in touch with Millie!
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Postby RJ Shep on Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:56 pm

GrassyNoel wrote:
RJ Shep wrote:If anyone has read Harry Potter 5 yet, please PM me. I've just finished it and am mad to discuss it.


Get in touch with Millie!


That was me on Tuesday, exactly! :D
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