Back-up Outlet 01/05/07

The teenage years. Friendships, crushes, growth... and hating. Lots of hating.

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Postby Freemage on Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:04 am

Sebastian wrote:
Freemage wrote:3: I do love the folks who are defending Penny's attacks on Meg by saying she must've deserved it. We've been told outright there's backstory to Penny and Aggie, as well.


Let's suppose you've read the part of Penny at Karen's party without know anything of the backstory, probably you'd think that Penny what just being a bitch. Now imagine that you come to know about Karen what you already know? wouldn't your opinion of Penny change? Before to judge what she did to Meg I want to know why she did it, if I must judge from the precedents it is probable that she had some good reasons to do it.


I have no problem withholding judgement on why Penny took the photos of Meg. It's the folks who insist on doing so, while not cutting Aggie the same slack for her current behavior towards Penny that I find amusing.

Ollie Vera wrote:Except I've never seen a 16-year-old continually stalk and harass another person like that unless they were in a gang, rather violent, or had some sort of mental problem. From all we've seen Aggie has no real reason to behave that way and comes across as a relatively well-adjusted and mentally stable girl.

Sure it's a harmless prank, but I'd expect something like that from a 13-year-old, not a 16-year-old who preaches about peace and love.


See my earlier comment about universalizing our personal experiences. At my school, this wouldn't even have ranked as much more than a 'howyadoin'?
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Postby Tsarevna_Erin on Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:06 pm

Freemage wrote:I think, much like with the "dress code" debate, we're all a bit guilty of universalizing our own HS experiences. Some of us seem to have gone to schools where "bully" is the worst insult imaginable, and anyone conforming to such behavior is regarded as Satan incarnate.

Others among us (myself included) went to schools where the rule, among the kids, was best summed up with Penn & Teller's NPD rule for when they'll cancel a trick: No Permanent Damage.

Personally, I find the Archie/Reggie comparison pretty apt; it really IS the sort of thing they pull on one another fairly regularly--Reggie more than Archie, but I read enough to know that that was a guideline, not a law.


I'm afraid I have to disagree, Freemage. This is NOT the sort of thing Penny and Aggie pull on each other regularly. Not remotely.

I admit I'm a little surprised at all the Aggie-bashing. I'm not her biggest fan, either, but I don't think she's worse than Hitler, Satan spawn, etc.

But to say that this sort of prank is something that has precedent is just not correct. The great thing about Penny and Aggie is that the stereotypes aren't holding. Penny is NOT a dumb blonde - she's just as smart as Aggie, meaning that they can really fight a battle of wits and it's not Penny getting bludgeoned. The truth is that Aggie frequently comes out on top in those battles. For example:

http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20041208.html

and

http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20060526.html

We've not seen Penny or Aggie go to physical pranks, save for the clothing prank Aggie pulled, which was more of a psychological thing than a pure, immature prank. The clothes thing was, perhaps, immature, but it was brilliantly turned. This soda thing is just weird, and rather low-rent for a person who has been able to put Penny on the defensive with a few nicely turned words. This soda thing is like if Al Gore decided that instead of engaging George Bush in debate, he was going to pants him instead. There's no precedent for it, and seeing it would just be weird and somewhat OOC.

Which brings me to a slightly unrelated question - what sort of influence is Lisa having on Aggie now? Where is Duane? I really don't think that if Aggie were still hanging with Duane that she'd pull something like this. In the Undertow arc, we saw how not nice Lisa could be to people who didn't share her opinions. I think she's crushing on Aggie, so she's cutting her some slack, but I really don't like their friendship. It's making Aggie look like a tool, and that's sad.


Again, this was an immature stunt by someone whose age suggests that she's, um, immature. It does not rise to meet the definition of bullying, and it does not render Aggie 'horrible'.



Freemage, I understand what you're saying in principle, but this is not Animal Farm, where some experiences are more equal than others. If this sort of prank didn't rank in your high school, beautiful. Neither would it have in mine. But I'm not going to discount the experiences of people who went to high schools where this would have been a big deal just because it's not something I could see myself as caring about if it had happened in my high school. So if to some people it's bullying, it's bullying to those people. I may not agree, but I don't think it's fair for you or anyone to come down and definitively say that it isn't because of your own personal experience.

Also, Penny isn't anonymous student No. 2, who just had a soda explode on her clothes. She's PENNY. The story will be around the school by second period, and even though it's not a huge deal, this is a girl to whom appearances mean everything. I'd be highly surprised if Aggie was pulling this stunt in a vacuum: She wants Penny to be humiliated beyond her little circle of Lisa and the other chick. Will it work? Maybe not. Aggie and her crew aren't popular, and if Penny ducks out and comes back all clean and prettied up, no harm no foul. But we'll see.

This doesn't bode well, though, for Aggie's development, IMO.
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Postby daanton on Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:49 pm

And BTW, T and Gisèle, it's "TWO-OH-OH-SEVEN".
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Postby Mravac Kid on Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:38 pm

Akilika wrote:I don't know why everyone's on about the dress thing. The price was never mentioned, and given that her dad's a teacher and she works at what seems like a vegetarian fast food place or something, she probably doesn't have that kind of money to throw around even if she wanted to.

Actually, Penny's boss said that Aggie just spent $300 in there. Maybe not just on the dress, but still $300.
As Aggie definitely isn't the type to just waste money on useless trinkets, I'll guess she bought some clothes she actually likes. She only used that dress to mess with Penny.

I don't think Aggie's as poor as people seem to think, as I don't think Penny is as rich.

As for the pranks, the point that Aggie's the indie kid which sometimes acts like the preppie girls from movies, and that Penny's the other way around is precisely why I like the comic that much... they don't follow stereotypes, and they're not black&white, polar opposites. They're fairly normal girls, with distinct outlooks on life and problems therein.
We don't know what kind of relationship they had previous to the comic's beginning, so maybe they've been at it since kindergarten.
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Postby Little Wood on Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:01 pm

This soda thing is like if Al Gore decided that instead of engaging George Bush in debate, he was going to pants him instead. There's no precedent for it, and seeing it would just be weird and somewhat OOC.


Hmph. You know, that's a rather good point. Lisa may be a rather strange influence on Aggie, but remember that apathy is her cause worth fighting for. I'd be so disappointed in Aggie if she did this. We know from previous comics that this school does take certain things seriously (ie dress code, spreading rumors), and ever since the Principle warned Penny and Aggie of their misbehavior Aggie has heeded to the general warning as much as Penny. I don't think that small verbal arguments should spark much, but this probably will because, come on, you just know that someone else will notice Penny with soda all over her clothes and Aggie has yet to mess with Penny's clothes that she so dearly loves. We all know that this will lead to some sort of trouble. This isn't just your average "ha-ha, very funny" prank. I can understand how it would be in your high school (not in mine), but that's probably not how things go in this school.

As for the issue with Aggie wasting money, now that I review it, it was probably not worth doing at all. Yea, it was immature. However, Aggie hasn't done this in awhile. Maybe she changed, but maybe I'm just giving her too much slack. Just wondering, but when was the last time she pulled an immature prank on Penny?
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Postby Jabroniville on Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:46 pm

I think as far as bullying goes, shaking a pop before someone drinks it sits somewhere on the 'slightly mean' category. I mean, if you want REAL bullying, she could've, say, told a large handicapped student to harass her and stick gum in her hair on the bus until she ran off crying. I know this one from experience (ie. some friends and I did this to another kid when we were the ages of these characters). Trust me, kids can be A WHOLE LOT MEANER than slightly messy gags and practical jokes. Heck, I've shaken up the pop cans of my CLOSEST FRIENDS, not just people I hated.

Aggie's immature. She's smart and concerned about the state of the world and all that, but she's still a kid who thinks messing up the clothes of someone she doesn't like is funny. Hell, *I* think that's funny, and I'm 25. She's hardly a force of malevolence, people :).
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