[30/10/06] It's part of a healthy lifestyle

The teenage years. Friendships, crushes, growth... and hating. Lots of hating.

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[30/10/06] It's part of a healthy lifestyle

Postby taotu on Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:52 am

The following post is tainted with my rage after reading today's strip only a few short minutes ago.

YOU SELFISH COW!

Okay, even the Karen fans are gonna be wincing at this. Seriously. WTF.

:evil:

EDIT: *Cooling down* I guess she didn't recieve any sort of approving glance from Marshall in the previous strip... Poor Marshall... Sexual assault isn't cool, folks.
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Postby ria on Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:57 am

Ya, WTF indeed.

As I said, I still "feel for" her. I can sympathize with her self-esteem issues. But I have to say, seeing this, her earlier crying at Marshall seems suspect. Outright manipulative.

but again, I come from a family that is stuck in that abusive cycle, and I do overgeneralize sometimes.

Marshall was obviously uncomfortable with it. I don't know if she finished him off or not. But he seems ... disoriented, I guess. And I honestly think he micromanages his emotions. He SHOULD be angry right now. But he doesn't appear to want to ever appear too emotional, so he just stutters "buh... I uh... buh..." and walks out stoically...

So now we've got bomb threats and sexual assault. What do you have planned for your poor characters next, T? :p



On a lighter note -- out of all the featured people in this story arc -- who would you have guessed at the beginning would be "getting some"? And who actually did? :)
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Postby taotu on Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:05 am

ria wrote:Marshall was obviously uncomfortable with it. I don't know if she finished him off or not. But he seems ... disoriented, I guess. And I honestly think he micromanages his emotions. He SHOULD be angry right now. But he doesn't appear to want to ever appear too emotional, so he just stutters "buh... I uh... buh..." and walks out stoically...


He's probably extremely confused. As someone wisely pointed out in one of the other threads, it's extremely upsetting for guys when their body is 'enjoying' sexual attention while their mind is telling them it shouldn't be- it makes a lot of guys feel like they actually did want it, even if they can't make that clear in their mind... so- yeah he's disoriented. His body enjoyed it. He didn't.
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Postby StarKruzr on Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:04 am

taotu wrote:
ria wrote:Marshall was obviously uncomfortable with it. I don't know if she finished him off or not. But he seems ... disoriented, I guess. And I honestly think he micromanages his emotions. He SHOULD be angry right now. But he doesn't appear to want to ever appear too emotional, so he just stutters "buh... I uh... buh..." and walks out stoically...


He's probably extremely confused. As someone wisely pointed out in one of the other threads, it's extremely upsetting for guys when their body is 'enjoying' sexual attention while their mind is telling them it shouldn't be- it makes a lot of guys feel like they actually did want it, even if they can't make that clear in their mind... so- yeah he's disoriented. His body enjoyed it. He didn't.


While I would love to know who "HER" is, I have now officially Had It with both of them. They're both hopelessly dysfunctional AFAIC.
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Postby sun tzu on Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:20 am

Oh F#1*$.
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Postby ria on Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:25 am

I think whoever predicted that Charisma is Marshall's mom, and that her playing around leads him to be overcautious about sex, may be right. So then he doesn't have cold feet because some past girlfriend broke his heart -- he's just trying to distance himself from something he doesn't like in his parent.

Just a possibility, anyhow.
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Postby kash on Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:10 am

I don't think karen would know a healthy lifestyle if it hit her in the face. :-?
THANKS FO' THA PIZZAH, HOMESLICE!
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Postby Zombielicious on Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:21 am

Dear diary. Karen is a bitch. The end.

:grumble:
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Postby AstralFireIX on Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:21 am

...Karen can go die in a fire*.
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*I am not actually advertising her murder. This is internet hyperbole.
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Postby Richter on Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:36 am

Karen's seriously manipualtive, and this metrosexual ladyboy cannot stand up to that, nor does he even unterstand how she plays with him.

Interesting developments there. Personally, my mney's on Rich and 'chelle getting together (at least for a couple story arcs), while Karen and Marsh will end up a relationship from hell.

Seriously. A woman with ego issues who tries to overcome those by playing mind games on everyone she can (which, though much less agressively, is what Sara does, too), and a ladyboy who apparently wopuld seriously have needed a male role model? This is maybe gonna last, but it's gonna destroy both, too.
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Postby ParaChan on Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:45 am

Karen is the reason I sometimes think to quit reading the comic because her story line gets me so frustraited.

I have to say, I have not felt sorry for her and I don't think I really could. She's been a *younknowwhat* ever since the day she was transformed. ( lol, transformed? )

Anyways, her "change" bothers me because I've seen WAY too many teen movies with the same story line. ( geeky girl gets make over from popular girls and turns into a complete she dog )

I've always just been reading and never wanted to actually sign up and give my two cents in till today when I saw monday's strip. I'm not even saying that Aggie and Marsh should get together but Karen and Marshal doesn't make sense.

Why can't he see her for who she is? He should be able to no matter how fake she pretends to be. True colors show through even the thickest lies. I just hope that Marshal realises it soon because his character is very sweet. patient. kind. I mean, come on.

Anyways, rant over. You have no idea how much this arch has been bothering me ~_~

ria wrote: I don't know if she finished him off or not. But he seems ... disoriented, I guess.


Oh, and her washing off at the sink may be indication enough hm? >_>;;
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Postby Papuasblya on Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:54 am

How much does it cost to get drawn in as a character? Karen is my soulmate.
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Postby Sebastian on Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:56 am

Like I've (more or less) said in the other thread

Do you know that "benefit of doubt " that I said wanted to give to Karen?
Well, I take it back.
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Postby SirBob on Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:34 am

taotu wrote:
ria wrote:Marshall was obviously uncomfortable with it. I don't know if she finished him off or not. But he seems ... disoriented, I guess. And I honestly think he micromanages his emotions. He SHOULD be angry right now. But he doesn't appear to want to ever appear too emotional, so he just stutters "buh... I uh... buh..." and walks out stoically...


He's probably extremely confused. As someone wisely pointed out in one of the other threads, it's extremely upsetting for guys when their body is 'enjoying' sexual attention while their mind is telling them it shouldn't be- it makes a lot of guys feel like they actually did want it, even if they can't make that clear in their mind... so- yeah he's disoriented. His body enjoyed it. He didn't.


Indeed - and all quibbling about the precise definition of sexual assault aside, his initial reaction in this strip is pretty typical of what you see in male sexual assault victims, especially when the other party is female. The characterisation is really quite remarkable - I have to wonder at how extensively our authors researched the subject going into this story arc.
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Postby Tsarevna_Erin on Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:39 am

Sebastian wrote:Like I've (more or less) said in the other thread

Do you know that "benefit of doubt " that I said wanted to give to Karen?
Well, I take it back.


Oh, god, agreed. Karen is ... I don't even know what to say. Soulless maybe?

I'm still tiptoeing away from calling this rape or sexual assault, but I am mighty uncomfortable that Karen seems to view this as a power trip and not something shared between people who love each other. Everyone says that sex assualt and rape is about power, not sex. Geez. Marshall needs to get away from her and stay away from her - behind locked doors, if need be.
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Re: .

Postby Sebastian on Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:44 am

ria wrote:I think whoever predicted that Charisma is Marshall's mom, and that her playing around leads him to be overcautious about sex, may be right. So then he doesn't have cold feet because some past girlfriend broke his heart -- he's just trying to distance himself from something he doesn't like in his parent.

Just a possibility, anyhow.


Indeed, I'm surprised myself, all the pieces seems to fall in the right places. I can't believe that I could have speculated (or better nodrogized, for the Ancient Ones between us) correctly about one of T's comics.

But If I'm right then i fell sorry for Nick. :(
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Postby MRodriguez on Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:53 am

*headdesk* Karen. I still love you. But go see a psychologist. Now. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. You'll be happier, and everyone around you will be happier, I promise.
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The drama.

Postby SirBob on Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:53 am

Tsarevna_Erin wrote:I'm still tiptoeing away from calling this rape or sexual assault, but I am mighty uncomfortable that Karen seems to view this as a power trip and not something shared between people who love each other. Everyone says that sex assualt and rape is about power, not sex.

Hey, if you broadly define sexual assault as "sexual contact under threat or coercion", how does "if you don't do me I'm going to have a massive emotional breakdown and it's ALL YOUR FAULT" grab ya? ;)

That's probably a big part of the whole ugly argument here, now that I think of it; "sexual assault" and "sexual coercion" are distinguishable in some contexts, but not in others.
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Postby Ostracee on Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:18 am

Okay, this is getting kind of weird...kind of a whiplash-inducing return to normal gender roles in the last panel...
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Postby SAGG on Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:23 am

Well, at least she had the decency to wash her hands after she held it, huh? :evilgrin:

Marshall, I fear you're going to pay for your naive ways, dude... :grumble:
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Re: The drama.

Postby LoopyChew on Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:26 am

SirBob wrote:Hey, if you broadly define sexual assault as "sexual contact under threat or coercion", how does "if you don't do me I'm going to have a massive emotional breakdown and it's ALL YOUR FAULT" grab ya? ;)


The worst kinds of coercion are the intangible, emotional types, because you can never tell whether it's really them or "just you." And that's probably the worst kind ever.

I'm still on the fence as to whether or not the entire thing was calculated from start to finish, or if she just...er...got off on...er...getting him off. I'm still very much leaning toward the former, though.
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Postby Buggy on Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:38 am

ok..the stuttering isn't second thoughts about the event..its about the choice of words, liked seems to casual when he wants to stress hes in love.
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Re: The drama.

Postby SirBob on Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:49 am

LoopyChew wrote:I'm still on the fence as to whether or not the entire thing was calculated from start to finish, or if she just...er...got off on...er...getting him off. I'm still very much leaning toward the former, though.

I think that if it didn't start out as a calculated exercise, it surely became one at a fairly early stage.

That's the crux of it, really. I'm continually struck by the sentiment that's been expressed around here that Karen is definitionally blameless, no matter what she does, because she's the girl. Her response today, if nothing else, should demonstrate that this just isn't so - even she knows that what she's doing isn't kosher. Look at her choice of words in the first panel; "don't be ashamed", "it's healthy", and so forth. Those aren't phrases you generally hear uttered in the context of sex, at least when you're talking to a guy - shorn of indirection, she's basically telling him: "This is okay, because it's not really sex. It's more like... assisted masturbation. Guys are down with that, right?"

She knows that the only way Marshall is going to be okay with this is if he can rationalise that it didn't really "count", and she's encouraging him to do so. That's a telling decision on her part.
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Postby isobel on Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:15 am

Ugh. Ugh, gag, barf.

Okay, now that that's done: Karen is right, sex is part of a healthy lifestyle and it's not something to be ashamed of. Too bad that these two people, alone or together, do not have a healthy lifestyle. And also too bad that Karen does not in fact care about being healthy, she cares about Karen. Baby wants shiny toy, baby takes shiny toy, even if that means taking it from another child. I really hope Marshall wises up here, because he doesn't need further exploitation (Her only thought is, "My God...the power!" rather than anything loving or, well, healthy), and because Karen needs to learn that pretty people do not get to do what they want. Compassion, timing, caring, understanding, asking, listening, selflessness, these are all virtues that matter more in a relationship than being pretty, and she has none. Some of you dig Karen and the way she acts, and okay, I can't change anyone's mind. Her approach may be right for you, but I don't think it's right for Marshall, and that's my beef here.
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That's just wrong....

Postby Sassy-fras on Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:28 am

I feel bad for Marshall. He seems so confused and doubtful about what's been going on. Profess your love to a girl you assume has you in her heart...but it's evident she does not. Both of their goals seem so different. He wants love. She wants...world domination and enslavement of the male population? Oooohhhhh...wait a second! *pauses posting to look up comic*

*returns* Huzzah! Foreshadowing!!!!???!!!!

http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20050316.html

*rubs hands together and giggles* Aggie...beating Karen's butt? Mwahahahaha...one can dream.

Edit: Notice the poem...and what it says...does this mean Aggie was assuming Karen's beyond the ebilness she originally saw? Or is Aggie just good at judging people? Hmmmm. Or is she psychic? Okay, I'm having too much fun with this. I'll stop now. *skitters away*
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