Is Harver Kurtzmann one of your artistic influences?

The teenage years. Friendships, crushes, growth... and hating. Lots of hating.

Moderators: Gisele Lagace, TCampbell

Forum rules
Penny and Aggie moved to http://www.pennyandaggie.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=1

Is Harver Kurtzmann one of your artistic influences?

Postby Papuasblya on Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:44 pm

The guy running into the tree in the 25 October 2006 strip made me think of it.
Three generations of imbeciles is enough.
User avatar
Papuasblya
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:19 pm

Postby JackFairy on Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:23 pm

Speaking of artistry... I really enjoy how the backs and lower backs are drawn in this comic (hips, also), but I kinda wish the girls' breasts acknowledged gravity sometimes. In these last few comics especially, even though everyone's naked, the shape of the girl's breasts still make 'em seem like they're wearing invisible bras. (Ie, there's always cleavage outta nowhere.)
JackFairy
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:02 pm

Postby Sebastian on Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:33 pm

If fictional 16 years old girls can't have perfect, gravity-defying breasts, then who can? ;)
Sebastian
Keenspot Despot
 
Posts: 2565
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 11:00 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Gisele Lagace on Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:08 am

The guy going in the tree came from Dan DeCarlo/Archie Comics. But maybe it does come from Harvey Kurtzmann (I'm not too familiar with his work).

I went with it 'cause I thought the tree looked plain on its own ;)

As for drawing backs...yeah, I like backs, hips and...well...buttocks :D

For the breasts always being perky, I blame that on Dan DeCarlo :lol:
User avatar
Gisele Lagace
Grand Poobah Keenspotter
 
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 11:00 pm
Location: Gatineau

Postby Archon Divinus on Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:27 am

Sebastian wrote:If fictional 16 years old girls can't have perfect, gravity-defying breasts, then who can? ;)


Truer words have never been spoken.
Archon Divinus
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:55 am

Postby atristain on Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:50 am

Sebastian wrote:If fictional 16 years old girls can't have perfect, gravity-defying breasts, then who can? ;)

The DOAX2 girls. Nothing like girls portraying breasts filled with water baloons to increase sales.

Check the Ctrl+Add+Del parody, also.
The sound of rolling dice
To me is music in the air!
'Cause I'm a gamblin' Boogie Man
Although I don't play fair!
User avatar
atristain
Keenspot Despot
 
Posts: 1571
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Mexico, Mexico, Mexico

Postby Tarlia on Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:31 am

atristain wrote:
Sebastian wrote:If fictional 16 years old girls can't have perfect, gravity-defying breasts, then who can? ;)

The DOAX2 girls. Nothing like girls portraying breasts filled with water baloons to increase sales.

Check the Ctrl+Add+Del parody, also.


They do seem to have a life of their own. That's just ridiculous. Water baloons is right.

Also, the hair DOES suck. Seriously.
Tarlia
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:04 pm

Postby JackFairy on Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:40 pm

Gisele Lagace wrote:backs...yeah, I like backs, hips and...well...buttocks :D


Yeah, I can tell! In a good way, I mean. They're always drawn really well and with great detail.

For the breasts always being perky, I blame that on Dan DeCarlo :lol:


Not to harp on about this too much, but it's not the perky that bothers me so much as the floating cleavage. As in, the breasts always look pushed together and hovering at a certain altitude, like the effect you get from a shelf bra, even when there's no bra in sight. Frankly, it's kind of... disturbing. I imagine the breasts as these scary, entirely solid objects, stuck to the ribcage, fixed and immovable on the girls' chests.

But I can understand if it's an homage to another artist's style, so I'll just shut up about that from now on.
JackFairy
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:02 pm

Postby Jabroniville on Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:15 am

I think drawing for any length of time teaches you to 'draw your own cleavage' more than anything else. See, because you tend to draw your own characters' bodies from scratch, and they're always clothed, you automatically create the gesture drawing with perky breasts (because, you know, they ARE wearing a bra in this case). But you draw the clothes LAST in pretty much every case, so this gesture drawing looks like a naked person with a bra-given bustline, which you then draw clothes over. That's how it works.

The 'problem' when drawing naked bodies is that your gesture drawing is the same (artists who draw characters regularly have a VERY strict 'outline' or reference sheet, you see), you just don't add the clothes. Hence, the breasts look the same. Because trust me, deviating from the norm of how you usually draw breasts because there's no bra there is a LOT harder than you'd think, and most artists are better off just drawing them the way they normally do. I mean, you can DO it, but it doesn't always look attractive (if you show gravity too much, they end up looking like old women's breasts), and I think any artist with a brain will tell you that pretty much every female character needs to look attractive, so most won't bother to change the archetype they're using.

So even if you think it's more realistic, it isn't necessarily the best idea.
Jabroniville
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:09 am

Postby JackFairy on Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:18 pm

Uh... really?

I mean, you can DO it, but it doesn't always look attractive


I rather thought that "natural" breasts had to always mean "saggy." :-D Somehow, having some breasts of my own and a fair amount of practice drawing 'em and seeing them drawn, I thought you could make them look properly, uh... pliable without being "old women's breasts."
JackFairy
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:02 pm

Natural breasts

Postby Gisele Lagace on Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:58 pm

JackFairy wrote:Not to harp on about this too much...I imagine the breasts as these scary, entirely solid objects, stuck to the ribcage, fixed and immovable on the girls' chests.


I won't lie and say that I don't draw large breasts. It's been mentioned before in the Q&A thread. My Dan DeCarlo influence combined with early 90's comic books and my own large breasts are probably the mains reasons I draw the way I draw.

I'm more than willing to improve though. When we started this strip, the drawing was really cartoony. In the last year, it has become less and less and I can understand how something that doesn't look natural bother you. I know I've consciously made some boobs defy gravity 'cause sometimes the more natural something looks, the more sexual it becomes. Give me a few links of strips that I've done that really bother you in that regards and I'll take a good look at them :)
User avatar
Gisele Lagace
Grand Poobah Keenspotter
 
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 11:00 pm
Location: Gatineau

Postby Sebastian on Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:34 pm

atristain wrote:
Sebastian wrote:If fictional 16 years old girls can't have perfect, gravity-defying breasts, then who can? ;)

The DOAX2 girls. Nothing like girls portraying breasts filled with water baloons to increase sales.


Well, they are fictional 16 years girl,too (someone look even less than 16, but the point stand)

It's just me or their movement look a little unnatural (and I don't mean only the boobies). I just completed the old adventure Syberia and I can almost say the it had better 3d animation than those.
Sebastian
Keenspot Despot
 
Posts: 2565
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 11:00 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Natural breasts

Postby JackFairy on Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:30 pm

Gisele Lagace wrote:I know I've consciously made some boobs defy gravity 'cause sometimes the more natural something looks, the more sexual it becomes. Give me a few links of strips that I've done that really bother you in that regards and I'll take a good look at them :)


Oh! I actually don't think the breasts you draw are too large at all. (And I'm rather petite myself. :-P) It's the bouncyness/gravity thing mostly. Though as you say, if it looked more natural it would be more sexual, which is why I would understand the style choice to keep 'em cartoon-perky.

As for examples, well.. in the last strip, actually, I felt Michelle's breasts were a bit too floaty. Like, if she were pressing them just against the pillow, I felt there'd be less resistance and they'd hang down a bit more--or if she were clutching the pillow tight and also pressing down against the bed, it seems like they should be squashed more on the bottom and pushed out more on the top.

In this strip, too:
http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20060911.html

Karen's wearing a sports bra, but her breasts seem rather too lifted-and-separated/up-and-out to me. I'd think a girl with her ample endowments would have more, er, weight and bounce in that type of outfit.

http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20060906.html

Here too, in the final panel--while the left breast hangs down believably in that posture, the right one is kinda just hovering. It also doesn't look like she's wearing a bra with that dress, and in that case, I think they're pushed together too much.

Though I also want to point out instances where I thought they were drawn really well:

http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20060915.html

Here Cyndi's breasts are in a really nice relaxed position on her torso, going off to the sides a bit, as is natural for a girl with her, er proportions. (And they look sexier for it, imo. It just underscores her endowment.)

http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20060908.html

Here I really like the job you did on Michelle's--it's obvious she isn't wearing a bra under that dress, and they look perky but they also have some free movement and hang, as they should. Basically every panel here is great.
Last edited by JackFairy on Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:34 pm, edited 7 times in total.
JackFairy
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:02 pm

Postby kash on Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:45 pm

I didn't make it through that entire video. it was too bouncy for me.
Did any of those bountifully breasted babes actually throw a punch?
THANKS FO' THA PIZZAH, HOMESLICE!
User avatar
kash
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:18 pm
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Natural breasts

Postby Ollie_Vera on Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:01 pm

Gisele Lagace wrote:I'm more than willing to improve though. When we started this strip, the drawing was really cartoony. In the last year, it has become less and less and I can understand how something that doesn't look natural bother you. I know I've consciously made some boobs defy gravity 'cause sometimes the more natural something looks, the more sexual it becomes. Give me a few links of strips that I've done that really bother you in that regards and I'll take a good look at them :)

omg. Gisele, did I ever tell you that you rock? :D Not just 'cos you're a great artist, or very agreeably nice, but you know how to take criticism. I mean, the last time I tried giving a webcomic artist a suggestion for something to do with the comic's artwork, she just brushed it off with a "I'll draw what I want." [and this wasn't a complaint or a criticism, just a suggestion for future reference]

YOU, however, not only accept AND listen to constructive criticism, but are grateful for it! And when you're the artist of a popular webcomic, it's pretty common to have a huge ego.

I know it sounds suck-up-y, but I just wanted to say I am very impressed. (:
User avatar
Ollie_Vera
Grand Poobah Keenspotter
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:33 am
Location: WA

Re: Natural breasts

Postby JackFairy on Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:31 pm

Ollie_Vera wrote:I know it sounds suck-up-y, but I just wanted to say I am very impressed. (:


Agreed. :-)
JackFairy
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:02 pm

Constructive criticism

Postby Gisele Lagace on Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:07 am

As a graphic designer, I needed to learn to take constructive criticism and even the unconstructive one. You need to be able to detach yourself from the work and look at it in an objective way and say "is this working?"

I'm happy when I get constructive criticism 'cause that means that people care to see me improve. They want me to be good. How can I say no to that?

So yeah, JackFairy, thank you for the links. I agree with you on all the examples. When Karen's jogging, her breasts should've been a little bigger and more bouncy. In the pose where Karen is sitting and trying to look sexy, her breasts do look off...so do her arms. I just didn't get the pose right. When I'm drawing a strip, I fix myself a time limit per strip and some panels just get the "its good enough" from me. I need to be more careful when I use the "its good enough" factor...hehe.

Thank you for pointing out the ones that you thought were well drawn. I remember when I did the Michelle falling off the bed strip that having her breasts look natural was important to me. Especially considering the dress she was wearing. I wasn't afraid of going sexy with this one.

I'll keep what you said in mind for future strips (by future strips, I mean the ones that I haven't drawn yet--I'm 8 strips in the new storyline).

As for rocking, you guys all knew that I used to be part of an all-girl rock band, right? Well, if not...yeah... I used to literally rock ;)
User avatar
Gisele Lagace
Grand Poobah Keenspotter
 
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 11:00 pm
Location: Gatineau

Postby TCampbell on Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:22 am

Gisele is actually so modest that I occasionally have to remind her that she's one of the best cartoonists on the Internet. I guess it's my good fortune that she's so self-effacing, because if she weren't, she'd probably ditch my ass and hook up with Neil Gaiman.
TCampbell
Keenspot Despot
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 11:00 pm
Location: Falls Church, VA

Re: Constructive criticism

Postby iRobot on Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:50 am

Gisele Lagace wrote:As for rocking, you guys all knew that I used to be part of an all-girl rock band, right? Well, if not...yeah... I used to literally rock ;)


No, I didn't. Did you do any demos or record performaces?
Kyn
-----
No, if I were really a jerk, my sig would contain lots of pictures, tired quotes, insipid "wisdom," brainless "wit," and/or lines of text art. And I would be deluded enough to somehow think that any of that was actually cool.
User avatar
iRobot
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:43 am

Postby Gisele Lagace on Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:53 pm

Ok, T, enough with the flowers ;)

And yes iRobot, we did have some recordings. It was a french band though. We were around in the early '90s, so it's been a while. I could post some MP3's but the bandwith is gonna cost us. I can email one or two to whoever is interested. Just send me an email. Like I said, it was french.

We also had a video. Maybe I could set it up on YouTube...we'll see :)
User avatar
Gisele Lagace
Grand Poobah Keenspotter
 
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 11:00 pm
Location: Gatineau

Postby Fen on Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:18 pm

you could upload the mp3s on http://www.rapidshare.de , no badwitch cost and it's everlasting.
I will never understand you. When will I stop trying?
Fen
Keenspotter Supreme
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:22 pm

Postby TheTeague on Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:16 pm

Gisele Lagace wrote:Ok, T, enough with the flowers ;)

And yes iRobot, we did have some recordings. It was a french band though. We were around in the early '90s, so it's been a while. I could post some MP3's but the bandwith is gonna cost us. I can email one or two to whoever is interested. Just send me an email. Like I said, it was french.

We also had a video. Maybe I could set it up on YouTube...we'll see :)


Awesome, I'd love to hear some contemporary French rock!
Image
User avatar
TheTeague
Grand Poobah Keenspotter
 
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:15 am

 

Return to Penny and Aggie

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest