[10/20] Usually...

[Black Mantha]

OK, looks like Marshall isn't storming out angry, and Karen is being honst with the boy for a change. From the last panel, I think there's at least one comic left for them in this chapter. Probably about what Karen wants, and why she wants it. Just how much she's going to lay bare is still up for grabs. (sorry about the puns)

Now who is "who-know-you"? I don't know! Apperantly someone who hurt Marshall... some girl who decieved him? "with weights, you know when they're going to crush you."

[StarKruzr]

Sometimes, love just ain't enough.

[iRobot]

OK, looks like Marshall isn't storming out angry, and Karen is being honst with the boy for a change. From the last panel, I think there's at least one comic left for them in this chapter. Probably about what Karen wants, and why she wants it. Just how much she's going to lay bare is still up for grabs. (sorry about the puns)

Hopefully, we can look foward to a bit more Karen-Marshall dialogue. They need it.

Now who is "who-know-you"?

Voldemort?

I don't know! Apperantly someone who hurt Marshall... some girl who decieved him? "with weights, you know when they're going to crush you."

So, they played the "past trauma" card. Let's see how this actually plays out.

[missMagdalena]

I'm not sure this makes things any better. It actually makes Karen's behavior even more inexcusable. She knew that he had something in his past "you-know-who" that made him uncomfortable with sex, and yet she thought he didn't want to because she didn't make him hot? And what was he supposedly being nice about? Does she mean she thought he was being nice in pretending to want her? So, she knows that he has a good reason not to want sex, but she thinks the way she can tell if he loves her is to jump in on him in the shower and try to get it on. Uh-huh.

I'm going to assume she didn't really put a lot of thought into this whole shower thing. But in the light of what she's saying here, the past strips perplex me even more.

[MRodriguez]

She's a freaking teenager, OF COURSE she didn't put a whole lot of thought into things. God, I'm so sick of people expecting so much of these KIDS. They're KIDS. Their whole purpose is to make mistakes. Why would anyone read a story about perfect, robot teenagers who always do the right thing?

[Akilika]

She's a freaking teenager, OF COURSE she didn't put a whole lot of thought into things. God, I'm so sick of people expecting so much of these KIDS. They're KIDS. Their whole purpose is to make mistakes. Why would anyone read a story about perfect, robot teenagers who always do the right thing?

Why can't they be like we were
Perfect in every way . . .?

[RentACop]

A naked girl on the floor sobbing and begging you not to leave her, that's like, seventeen different kinds of vulnerable.

[GreenKore]

I...would really like to know who You-Know-Who is. I doubt it's Lord Voldemort.

On a seperate note, I find myself drawn to Marshall's waist towel for some reason. *looks for mysterious outlines* Hey! I have some spare time and I like this comic. My perverted mind has nothing to do with it.

[Sassy-fras]

Black Mantha
Now who is "who-know-you"?

iRobot
Voldemort?

Hahaha! I loved that. Marshall could be Harry and Duane could be Ron. *thinks* Aggie would make an excellent Hermoine! ROFL!

missMagdalena
I'm not sure this makes things any better. It actually makes Karen's behavior even more inexcusable.

I agree. Okay, I get the fact she's insecure about a lot of things, but now that we know she knew something about Marshall's past hindered him from acting upon his desires, she should've been a little more understanding. Less pushy.

MRodriguez
She's a freaking teenager, OF COURSE she didn't put a whole lot of thought into things. God, I'm so sick of people expecting so much of these KIDS. They're KIDS. Their whole purpose is to make mistakes. Why would anyone read a story about perfect, robot teenagers who always do the right thing?

Everybody makes mistakes, but there are some kids who actually have some common sense and don't make regrettable ones. i.e. I'm pretty sure, once Karen is emotionally enlightened, she's going to wish she had handled things differenlty with Marshall. Case in point.... http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20060106.html

[JK9000]

So, they have discussed this in the past. Marshall has offered an apparently sufficient reason why he's opposed to sex, and Karen evidently understands.

...And she still tried to force it on him?

C'mon, Marshall. Open them eyes. This is not the lady for you.

[LadyShaper]

I'm not sure this makes things any better. It actually makes Karen's behavior even more inexcusable. She knew that he had something in his past "you-know-who" that made him uncomfortable with sex, and yet she thought he didn't want to because she didn't make him hot? And what was he supposedly being nice about? Does she mean she thought he was being nice in pretending to want her? So, she knows that he has a good reason not to want sex, but she thinks the way she can tell if he loves her is to jump in on him in the shower and try to get it on. Uh-huh.

I'm going to assume she didn't really put a lot of thought into this whole shower thing. But in the light of what she's saying here, the past strips perplex me even more.

I don't think that Karen doesn't think Marshall loves her, as he could not have been more blatant, what with giving her those swans and such, I think she just wants the fact that she is attractive validated. I know what it is like to have horrible self esteem in a relationship, it is not easy. She wants to sleep with Marshall, perhaps in part because she is aroused and in love, but to validate the fact that she is attractive, and that Marshall finds her attractive

[taotu]

Now who is "who-know-you"?

Voldemort?

Holy crap, you're so awesome.

Anyway- it's good to see that Marshall is sticking around to talk it out. They do need to talk, to be sure.

Now it does make sense, though. He's upset- my guess is somebody said 'ohh, eye candy', talked him into bed, and ditched him- and has issues with sex, and Karen thinks if they're not having sex that he's not attracted to her. Hopefully, Marshall will talk her out of that thinking, and Karen will teach Marshall that you can trust some people when it comes to sex.

[isobel]

Copied from the other Karen/Marshall thread, since I have a bad habit of keepng old threads alive:

Okay, who thinks Karen is still kind of a shit? Now we know he's explained it to her at some length but she still pressed on. Also, although I have to commend her honesty, I don't think "Sometimes, usually" is exactly a great answer to Marshall's question. I dislike it not because it's not what I'd want her to say, but because anyone saying that really needs to sort out their own issues before dating. For their own health.

Now for the fun part...who is "you-know-who?"
My vote is Charlotte, for her outrageous self-hate and her sad, sad scene in the strip where everyone's pining.

[isobel]

Now who is "who-know-you"?

Voldemort?

Holy crap, you're so awesome.

Anyway- it's good to see that Marshall is sticking around to talk it out. They do need to talk, to be sure.

Now it does make sense, though. He's upset- my guess is somebody said 'ohh, eye candy', talked him into bed, and ditched him- and has issues with sex, and Karen thinks if they're not having sex that he's not attracted to her. Hopefully, Marshall will talk her out of that thinking, and Karen will teach Marshall that you can trust some people when it comes to sex.

But can Karen teach him there are people you can trust with sex? I mean, he did tell her why he was holding off, and presumably it was a whopper, judging by both what she said and his reactions throughout the comic. She knew all about his past and she knew he loved her (in his weird, distant-for-most-people, PTSD way), but she still pushed him like this. She values Karen over Marshall, at least at this point in time. I don't think she's the girl for him, at least not as she is now.

[Yawnitz]

On a seperate note, I find myself drawn to Marshall's waist towel for some reason. *looks for mysterious outlines* Hey! I have some spare time and I like this comic. My perverted mind has nothing to do with it.

You're not the only one who regards the improvised loincloth with a raised ay-ay-eyebrow.

[Psychologynerd]

I've been reading this forum for a while, but this is my first time posting, so please forgive me.

I like Karen. I know she very popular right now, that people think she's a pushy tramp. But I like her, and this may be because I see a lot of myself in her. Granted, I never did exactly what she did, but I did use sexuality as a way to validate my attractiveness.

I had an eating disorder my first year in college. Around the time I sought treatment and when I started gaining weight back I began using sex and my partner's sexual response to me as a way of measuring my attractiveness. I have sense grown out of this, but it took a while.

I, like Karen, was an ugly duckling and it's hard to get used to a new found sexuality when you didn't even want to look at yourself in the mirror before. Also, people with body image problems as well as eating disorders tend to have sexual problems as well, while I can't site studies because I don't have access to my database of research, there are quite a few. I'm not saying Karen has an eating disorder, but she definatly has a body image problem and that affects sexuality. WHile she shouldn't push Marshall, espcially if she knows what she knows about his past sexual history, i don't think she deserves all the crap she's getting, just some of it. And I applaud Marshall for his reaction to her response and I if he is who I think he is, he'll respond to her worries about attractivness.

[Beanie]

Okay, who thinks Karen is still kind of a shit? Now we know he's explained it to her at some length but she still pressed on. Also, although I have to commend her honesty, I don't think "Sometimes, usually" is exactly a great answer to Marshall's question. I dislike it not because it's not what I'd want her to say, but because anyone saying that really needs to sort out their own issues before dating. For their own health.

I entirely agree.


It's so hard to feel sorry for somebody who seems intent on dragging others down with them.

[Backdoor Nucleotide]

Now who is "who-know-you"?

Voldemort? ;)

Thank God I wasn't the only one who thought "you have cold feet because of Lord Voldemort" seemed odd.

For one thing - That's a crossover born in hell.

[Sebastian]

Hopefully, Marshall will talk her out of that thinking, and Karen will teach Marshall that you can trust some people when it comes to sex.

I'm not still sure that Karen is one of those people, tho.

[Kate]

Now for the fun part...who is "you-know-who?"
My vote is Charlotte, for her outrageous self-hate and her sad, sad scene in the strip where everyone's pining.

I thought about Charlotte, too.

[KiZeR]

I say its a cover. There is no Voldemort, he's just gay.

[quitejaded]

A naked girl on the floor sobbing and begging you not to leave her, that's like, seventeen different kinds of vulnerable.

Is that your kind of thing?

[isobel]

I say its a cover. There is no Voldemort, he's just gay.

I'm resisting jokes about Voldemort's snake tongue and mean spell-casting ability, but I want you to know it's very, very difficult for me. Because I am utterly vile.

Also, another point I'm importing from the other thread: Marshall's body language. The feeling I got from all the posts in there was that his distance from Karen exists to show us he was reeeeeeally screwed up. Like, hardcore. To the point where he sees the girl he loves on the floor, but he's terrified to do any more than give her a towel and reasure her he's not going to leave. I think, in light of recent events, this is more of a "holy shit, he really got messed up bad" than "look how cold he is, oh he's a bad guy and he's lying." He's broken, not hateful. Very, very broken.
EDIT: Also, he probably feels a little skittish around Karen right now, because of what she's been doing. Maybe he's afraid she somehow still doesn't get it, and if he gets too close she'll try to put the moves on again. Understandable fear, given the givens.

[MRodriguez]

Everybody makes mistakes, but there are some kids who actually have some common sense and don't make regrettable ones. i.e. I'm pretty sure, once Karen is emotionally enlightened, she's going to wish she had handled things differenlty with Marshall. Case in point.... http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20060106.html

Of COURSE she's going regret her current actions. That's also part of being a teenager and growing up, just like Aggie regretted the Hitler comments. It's because she's going to look back and be horribly, terribly embarrassed and horrified by her current actions that I think people should be easier on her. She's not evil. She's just a damaged kid. She's growing up, and it's hard, and we don't always do the smartest things when we're growing up and learning. Heck, there's things I did when I was twenty that I look back on and wish I'd never done. I'm sure when I'm 24, I'll look back on the stuff I've said and done this year and wonder how I could ever be so stupid.

I admit it. I LIKE Karen. I like Karen A LOT. She's not the best person, but she's human, and she's vulnerable, and her reasons for not being the best person are understandable and sympathetic.

[isobel]

I think the reason people are having a harder time being easier on Karen is because of what she did to Marshall. I mean, Aggie said something stupid because she was feeling protective of Duane, regretted it, learned to watch her mouth a little better. Penny didn't acknowledge Karen's emotions, realized that, and felt guilty (even though Karen didn't even give her the chance to apologize before going for the jugular in public). These are minor things, all told. Karen's assault of Marshall is a little...bigger. She knew full well he did not want sex (for good reasons), but she physically assaulted him in the shower at work, where he was vulnerable and certainly capable of getting fired. Being a kid only gives you so much leeway, and I for one think Karen exceeded it. Do I understand why? Yes. I sympathize with her issues, having been through some and still saddled with a few others. But at no point, even when I was her age or younger, did I think it was okay to mess with another person like that. I can't concieve of thinking it's okay to molest someone who's been traumatized and isn't ready for sex, no matter how much you want validation.

I don't straight-out hate Karen, but she's used up my goodwill with this Marshall thing. The dumping Penny and Aggie I could chalk up to being an insecure teenager desperate to shed her past, but this? Hell to the no.