What is with the unrealistic male characters?

The teenage years. Friendships, crushes, growth... and hating. Lots of hating.

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Postby StarKruzr on Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:51 am

isobel wrote:He's ANGRY because she's tried to jump his bones for the third time we've seen, at his place of work, in a public shower, with other people around, in spite of the fact he's told her no before. I'd think that a towering amount of disrespect would make anyone angry, especially over such an issue as bodily integrity.

You want to conduct yourself as a walking cock, O Recent Poster, fine. But the sweeping generalizations you make are really not going to make you look like a sensible person, or make your posts worth reading. I know many guys who would react with anger if someone disrespected them. Similarly, I know many girls who aren't the foo-foo-brained, sexually repressed, fragile little things you wrote us all off as. Your word is not law, as evidenced by the exceptions provided by people on this board alone. Some guys would hit it in the shower, some would be angry, some would say no, some would do something completely random I have not thought of. Some girls are sexually repressed, some like sex, some talk about it, some do not, some fall into other categories too numerous to list. I'm getting really fucking sick of people telling me there's no way I can have a sex drive and that any man not boning every girl he meets has to be homosexual/not a "realistic" guy. If you can't concieve of anything more complicated than that, whatever. But for christ's sake, please try not to shit all over the boards with it.

That...has been a long time coming. First and last blowup over the trollery, scout's honor. Sometimes you just kind of hit critical mass (Hey, are girls allowed to be angry and hostile, or do you need to be Rich for that kind of thing?)


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Postby StarKruzr on Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:53 am

Tarlia wrote:You can say nothing about me from knowing the simple fact that I'm female.


False. I can make statements about the probability that you will do X, or feel X, in a given situation, and feel reasonably assured that, if I don't know you at all, I have a good chance of being right. Same thing goes for me as a guy.
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Postby JK9000 on Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:20 am

StarKruzr wrote:
Tarlia wrote:You can say nothing about me from knowing the simple fact that I'm female.


False. I can make statements about the probability that you will do X, or feel X, in a given situation, and feel reasonably assured that, if I don't know you at all, I have a good chance of being right. Same thing goes for me as a guy.



See, this is what we call a stereotype. T wrote a fairly good article concerning stereotypes some time ago, thought I can't for the life of me remember where it would be located...

Anyway, the point is, judging too strictly by stereotype is generally a bad thing. Yeah, you can make some assumtions about how any guy or girl would act in a given situation, and you might even have a fairly high chance of being right, but it's unfair and even ignorant to classify people who lay outside of a stereotype as abnormal or an exception.

As others have noted, gender really doesn't have inherent characteristics; at least least not in the sense that many people think they do. Most of the percieved correlation between certain mannerisms and a certain gender are little more than social constucts. Next to none of the similarities are biological in origin.
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Postby Freemage on Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:36 am

First off, since just about every one of the posters who is getting slammed here has already stated, "Yes, a guy can say no, but he would be unlikely to say no IN THAT WAY without some other factor going on," please quit claiming this is some attempt to declare that all men would've taken Karen up on her offer. Many would have, if not here then at the party before, but certainly not all.

However, Marshall's behavior ~taken as a whole~ is sending up lots of red flags that something's going on besides merely a reluctance to have sex. It may be bad relationship, more serious trauma, closeted homosexuality, or something else entirely--but simply 'doesn't want to' doesn't cover all of those little indicators.

Furthermore, is it really any surprise that more guys are pointing out the existence of those indicators, and more women seem to be missing them or discounting them? Sure we've got crossover on both sides, but I'd be willing to put the ratios at 75/25 each way. That alone should tell you that, no, generally men and women do NOT view sex and sexuality in the same way, and there likely IS something going on that the women simply aren't picking up on.
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Postby Tarlia on Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:38 am

StarKruzr wrote:False. I can make statements about the probability that you will do X, or feel X, in a given situation, and feel reasonably assured that, if I don't know you at all, I have a good chance of being right. Same thing goes for me as a guy.


Yeah, you can. But you can also end up being completely wrong. There is absolutely no guarantee that you'll be right. I might do some things that are stereotypically "female", but go completely against something else. Likewise, something that's true about me might be completely untrue about another girl. The point is that while stereotypes can say something about the amount of males or females who do X or feel X, it says NOTHING about the individual.


Edit: In response to Freemage. I can only speak for myself, but I never said it's impossible that Marshall has some kind of issues. I haven't even said it's impossible he's gay. I'm only protesting against the outcry that he MUST be gay or MUST have been beaten as a child and that there's no other explanation. This thread is in fact about how "unrealistic" he is. It simply amazes me that so many guys seem to think that it's actually practically impossible for a man to behave in this way, just because you and your circle of friends aren't like that. I don't know many women who are body builders either, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
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Postby iRobot on Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:15 pm

Rock on, Isobel.

atristain wrote:Ladies: Could we lower the estrogen and "macho bashing" levels a little? I'm a guy and felt offended by a lot of things said by guys, but this in not the place to write feminazi propaganda.


Yeah, well I'm a guy and I'm far more offended by your use of outmoded stereotypes to judge the normalcy of male behaviour.

I know you're angry by some comments but (surprise, surprise) you're not going to change any of those guys way of thinking. I like the way some of you expressed your points, but remember two things: "If you get angry, you lose twice" and "You can take a horse to the water, but you can't force it to drink" In the same way, you can't force nobody to think your way. If they want to listen, then it's Ok. I they don't want to, it's their problem. Feel free to express yourself, but respect other people way of thinking. If they're wrong, it will explode in their face when the time and ocassion is right.

Don't respond to anger with anger. Don't answer to violence with violence. It's "un-lady like". :wink: * ducks *


While your behaviour is completely trollish.
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Postby MRodriguez on Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:57 pm

What I see as strange about Marshall (although not unrealistic) is how ANGRY is he when Karen suggests sex. I know people keep on saying that if the sexes were reversed there would be all kinds of cries of 'rape' and such, but I'm a GIRL, and I've said before, if my boyfriend of six months had snuck into the shower with me, even when I told him I didn't want sex yet, I wouldn't be angry. I wouldn't give him sex, but I'd laugh it off and kick him out of the shower playfully but firmly. Not angry, more amused. Definitely wouldn't think he was trying to rape me or harrass me, because I'd been going out with the guy for SIX months, I wouldn't date someone I thought capable of rape for six months. :P

This is from someone who HAS background issues, IS a girl, and definitely would not react in such a way to something like that. I don't think Marshall is gay, but there's something going on there, even if it's just fear, anxiety, or impotence for whatever reason.
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Postby Tarlia on Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:13 pm

Maybe we'll find out tomorrow! Maybe not! Maybe the writers are snickering at how wrong we all are and are dragging it out as long as possible! Who knows. :)
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Postby iRobot on Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:18 pm

MRodriguez wrote:What I see as strange about Marshall (although not unrealistic) is how ANGRY is he when Karen suggests sex. I know people keep on saying that if the sexes were reversed there would be all kinds of cries of 'rape' and such, but I'm a GIRL, and I've said before, if my boyfriend of six months had snuck into the shower with me, even when I told him I didn't want sex yet, I wouldn't be angry. I wouldn't give him sex, but I'd laugh it off and kick him out of the shower playfully but firmly. Not angry, more amused. Definitely wouldn't think he was trying to rape me or harrass me, because I'd been going out with the guy for SIX months, I wouldn't date someone I thought capable of rape for six months. :P

This is from someone who HAS background issues, IS a girl, and definitely would not react in such a way to something like that. I don't think Marshall is gay, but there's something going on there, even if it's just fear, anxiety, or impotence for whatever reason.


Or it could be something so mundane as, "Will you quit hounding me about this, woman? It's really starting to piss me off that you don't accept, respect nor care that I'm not ready to take the "next step."

Karen needs to learn that if she stops pressing the issue, she's going to see the goal posts a lot sooner. As it stands, she may have already lost her chance for that to ever happen.
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Postby StarKruzr on Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:35 pm

::applause::

THANK YOU.

This is what I have been trying to say, with limited success:

Freemage wrote:First off, since just about every one of the posters who is getting slammed here has already stated, "Yes, a guy can say no, but he would be unlikely to say no IN THAT WAY without some other factor going on," please quit claiming this is some attempt to declare that all men would've taken Karen up on her offer. Many would have, if not here then at the party before, but certainly not all.


Yes. The point is that in general, he would be extraordinarily unlikely to say no IN THAT WAY.
Expected reactions if he really didn't want to do it in the locker room?

"Honey, not HERE! Geez!"
"Um, Karen? THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE IN HERE. Can we maybe try this again somewhere else?"

"WHAT are you DOING?" is not a normal reaction to someone you have a great deal of romantic affection for surprising you in the shower, regardless of whether or not you are celibate.

Freemage wrote:However, Marshall's behavior ~taken as a whole~ is sending up lots of red flags that something's going on besides merely a reluctance to have sex. It may be bad relationship, more serious trauma, closeted homosexuality, or something else entirely--but simply 'doesn't want to' doesn't cover all of those little indicators.


Bingo. It is the confluence of these factors that raises the red flags.

Freemage wrote:Furthermore, is it really any surprise that more guys are pointing out the existence of those indicators, and more women seem to be missing them or discounting them? Sure we've got crossover on both sides, but I'd be willing to put the ratios at 75/25 each way. That alone should tell you that, no, generally men and women do NOT view sex and sexuality in the same way, and there likely IS something going on that the women simply aren't picking up on.


I was going to point this out, but just figured it would fan more flames. Bravo to you for having more guts than me ;)
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Postby iRobot on Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:45 pm

StarKruzr wrote:Yes. The point is that in general, he would be extraordinarily unlikely to say no IN THAT WAY.
Expected reactions if he really didn't want to do it in the locker room?

"Honey, not HERE! Geez!"
"Um, Karen? THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE IN HERE. Can we maybe try this again somewhere else?"


Or how about:

"WTF do you think you're doing? We've already been over the fact that I'm not ready."

"Perhaps you're not effing familiar with the meaning of 'no,' are you?"

Or maybe....

"WHAT are you DOING?"

"WHAT are you DOING?" is not a normal reaction to someone you have a great deal of romantic affection for surprising you in the shower, regardless of whether or not you are celibate.


No, it's not the normal reaction if your reality is living inside an insipid teen movie. But it is a normal reaction when you're getting exasperated with someone.
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Postby MRodriguez on Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:46 pm

iRobot wrote:Or it could be something so mundane as, "Will you quit hounding me about this, woman? It's really starting to piss me off that you don't accept, respect nor care that I'm not ready to take the "next step."

Karen needs to learn that if she stops pressing the issue, she's going to see the goal posts a lot sooner. As it stands, she may have already lost her chance for that to ever happen.


Well, then he could have SAID something like that, without all that... indignant outrage. He's not treating her like someone he trusts and LIKES. There's no fondness there. Not sure if I'm wording that right, but if you like someone, even if they exasperate you, you speak to them differently than if you don't. Marshall is sort of acting like she killed his grandma or something. Again, maybe it's NOT issues, but if it's not then he's definitely sort of stuck up and talks WAY down to her, which someone with Karen's emotional problems doesn't NEED.

Honestly? I can sympathize way more with Karen UNLESS I assume that Marshall also has issues, not because Marshall doesn't want sex but because of the way he goes about telling her. Talking to her as though she's stupid or a child. Giving her those stupid swans with the line 'Swans Mate for life' and then not wanting to have sex with her. I'm sorry, but I'm more likely to have sex with someone BEFORE talking about marriage or any other sort of life commitment. Maybe other people aren't, but it's kind of weird to be able to tell someone "Oh, I'll be with you for EVER" but not be able to have sex with them.
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Postby taotu on Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:28 pm

MRodriguez wrote:Well, then he could have SAID something like that, without all that... indignant outrage. He's not treating her like someone he trusts and LIKES. There's no fondness there. Not sure if I'm wording that right, but if you like someone, even if they exasperate you, you speak to them differently than if you don't. Marshall is sort of acting like she killed his grandma or something. Again, maybe it's NOT issues, but if it's not then he's definitely sort of stuck up and talks WAY down to her, which someone with Karen's emotional problems doesn't NEED.


But trying to calmly and logically explain himself and his values- which he has done several times, rejected Karen's advances with great respect but undeniable firmness in his decision, has gotten him nowhere. Right now, he isn't fond of Karen. He doesn't like the way she's acting. He wants to let her know, very clearly, that he is pissed. Joking or being too kind about it may let the message go ignored once again, and he does not want to deal with this again.
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Postby Sebastian on Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:40 pm

StarKruzr wrote:Sorry. It's not absurd at all. Guys and girls DO NOT think of sex in very like manners. There are certain baselines - yes, we both want it - but the motivations often start from completely different places and how they experience it is often completely different.


Actually, you don't know for sure. The only way to know for sure is to have been a guy and then a girl or vice versa and remember both experiences (well, that or being a telepath) and I don't think you were. AFAIK the only one ever did that was some guy in greek mitology.

And beside by your logic you could say that no two persons think of sex in very like manners because everyone start from different places and have different experiences.
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Postby Cameo on Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:41 am

Sebastian wrote:And beside by your logic you could say that no two persons think of sex in very like manners because everyone start from different places and have different experiences.

Which could very well be true anyways.
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Postby iRobot on Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:15 am

MRodriguez wrote:Well, then he could have SAID something like that, without all that... indignant outrage.


He's quite justified in his indignant outrage.

He's not treating her like someone he trusts and LIKES.


It's not like she's treating him as someone she respects or cares about. Hence the indignant outrage.

There's no fondness there. Not sure if I'm wording that right, but if you like someone, even if they exasperate you, you speak to them differently than if you don't.


Up until the point they ruin the relationship.

Marshall is sort of acting like she killed his grandma or something.


No, Marshal's acting like he's really sick of having his choice ignored and disrepected. There really is only so much that even the most giving of guys can take before saying, "enough."

Again, maybe it's NOT issues, but if it's not then he's definitely sort of stuck up and talks WAY down to her, which someone with Karen's emotional problems doesn't NEED.


Because he's not a doormat for Karen sexual desires?

Honestly? I can sympathize way more with Karen UNLESS I assume that Marshall also has issues, not because Marshall doesn't want sex but because of the way he goes about telling her. Talking to her as though she's stupid or a child.


Hardly. The way he initially explained it at the party was not condescending (strange for a teenager, perhaps--but considering that T is an adult that's bound to happen now and again, but not condescending). And now, after being hounded, sure he's going to be upset. It would be wholly unrealistic for him to not be upset.

Giving her those stupid swans with the line 'Swans Mate for life' and then not wanting to have sex with her. I'm sorry, but I'm more likely to have sex with someone BEFORE talking about marriage or any other sort of life commitment. Maybe other people aren't, but it's kind of weird to be able to tell someone "Oh, I'll be with you for EVER" but not be able to have sex with them.


The swans thing was an attempt to be romantic, and to express a disire for a serious relationship. Marshal wants to be sure about the relationship that he's in is based upon love and respect before he commits to sex--because once he's ready to commit to sex, he's implying he's ready to commit for life. However, Karen's been giving him the distinct impression, with her not being able to accept that he's not ready for sex, that she's not basing their relationship on either respect or love.
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Postby Frances on Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:37 am

MRodriguez wrote:What I see as strange about Marshall (although not unrealistic) is how ANGRY is he when Karen suggests sex. I know people keep on saying that if the sexes were reversed there would be all kinds of cries of 'rape' and such, but I'm a GIRL, and I've said before, if my boyfriend of six months had snuck into the shower with me, even when I told him I didn't want sex yet, I wouldn't be angry. I wouldn't give him sex, but I'd laugh it off and kick him out of the shower playfully but firmly. Not angry, more amused.

*double-checks*

If he did this at your place of work, in front of strangers and customers?

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Postby Enirya on Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:35 am

So did anyone miss the part where Karen is borderline sexually assaulting Marshall?

God forbid he'd be a bit angry.

Oh, or wait, let me guess: you can't force yourself as a girl on a guy, right? That only works the other way around, and only then is it bad?

P'shawyeah. *eyeroll* Reverse the genders here and see what people would say then, but hey, it's okay to do it to a guy, isn't it?

Oh and please don't come out with that "that's different" bit, it's insulting to guys who have been at the receiving end of sex they didn't want (commonly called rape) and of which I know a few personally. So saying that would make you an insensitive git. ^_^
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Postby RisingPhoenix on Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:32 am

Rape is a wee bit more than sex you don't want. Sex you don't want, for instance, could be just about anything. You feel social pressure to do it. Your SO is feeling horny, and you're not. Rape is sexual assault through physical force or duress, according to the dictionary. What that means is someone either physically forces you, or sticks a gun to your head. It doesn't mean you think about it for a while, and decide you didn't really want to have sex when you had sex.



He's ANGRY because she's tried to jump his bones for the third time we've seen, at his place of work, in a public shower, with other people around, in spite of the fact he's told her no before. I'd think that a towering amount of disrespect would make anyone angry, especially over such an issue as bodily integrity.
Yes, three times in what, six months? And he's been putting her off with random excuses? "You're not old enough." "Well now I am." "Well... um, no."

Excuse me, he's supposed to be dating her. I expect a certain level of honesty from the people I'm dating. Apparently, so did she, because she's acting like she thought he was honest with her - when he clearly wasn't.

And 'bodily integrity?' What does that even mean here? That means that you have the right not to have the shit beaten out of you. If she jumped him with a tire iron in the shower, it might mean something here.

You want to conduct yourself as a walking cock, O Recent Poster, fine. But the sweeping generalizations you make are really not going to make you look like a sensible person, or make your posts worth reading. I know many guys who would react with anger if someone disrespected them. Similarly, I know many girls who aren't the foo-foo-brained, sexually repressed, fragile little things you wrote us all off as. Your word is not law, as evidenced by the exceptions provided by people on this board alone. Some guys would hit it in the shower, some would be angry, some would say no, some would do something completely random I have not thought of. Some girls are sexually repressed, some like sex, some talk about it, some do not, some fall into other categories too numerous to list. I'm getting really fucking sick of people telling me there's no way I can have a sex drive and that any man not boning every girl he meets has to be homosexual/not a "realistic" guy. If you can't concieve of anything more complicated than that, whatever. But for christ's sake, please try not to shit all over the boards with it.
Posting in, what, two threads is shitting all over the boards? Sorry I have opinions, and am new. I guess you need at least 100 posts before your opinion matters. Or is it 200? My e-dick is shorter than yours, I guess.
That...has been a long time coming. First and last blowup over the trollery, scout's honor. Sometimes you just kind of hit critical mass (Hey, are girls allowed to be angry and hostile, or do you need to be Rich for that kind of thing?)
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Postby Tarlia on Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:00 am

RisingPhoenix wrote:Rape is a wee bit more than sex you don't want. Sex you don't want, for instance, could be just about anything. You feel social pressure to do it. Your SO is feeling horny, and you're not. Rape is sexual assault through physical force or duress, according to the dictionary. What that means is someone either physically forces you, or sticks a gun to your head. It doesn't mean you think about it for a while, and decide you didn't really want to have sex when you had sex.


Wrong. You do NOT have to be physically held down in order for it to be rape. Being afraid for your life can be enough to keep you perfectly still. Threats. Being drugged. Being "talked into it".

I agree that deciding afterwards you didn't want sex isn't rape, but the means of force are many, and doesn't have to be directly physical.

That said, I don't think what Karen did could be called rape in any way, but it is bordering on sexual harassment. The only reason it's any different from a guy doing this to a girl is the physical strength of the parties involved. Karen doesn't pose an actual threat to Marshall, who's not only stronger because he's male, but he works with weights.
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Postby RisingPhoenix on Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:34 am

Tarlia wrote:
RisingPhoenix wrote:Rape is a wee bit more than sex you don't want. Sex you don't want, for instance, could be just about anything. You feel social pressure to do it. Your SO is feeling horny, and you're not. Rape is sexual assault through physical force or duress, according to the dictionary. What that means is someone either physically forces you, or sticks a gun to your head. It doesn't mean you think about it for a while, and decide you didn't really want to have sex when you had sex.


Wrong. You do NOT have to be physically held down in order for it to be rape. Being afraid for your life can be enough to keep you perfectly still. Threats. Being drugged. Being "talked into it".

I agree that deciding afterwards you didn't want sex isn't rape, but the means of force are many, and doesn't have to be directly physical.
Um, physical force or duress? What part of the duress was so unreadable? Maybe you missed the part where I described duress?

Regardless, threats to your life and rape drugs hardly qualify as something so mild as 'sex you didn't want.'

That said, I don't think what Karen did could be called rape in any way, but it is bordering on sexual harassment. The only reason it's any different from a guy doing this to a girl is the physical strength of the parties involved. Karen doesn't pose an actual threat to Marshall, who's not only stronger because he's male, but he works with weights.
I really don't think you can sexually harass someone who you've been dating for six months. I'm pretty sure sexual harassment is if one party isn't interested, and if Marshall isn't interested, then he's basically been lying for six months straight.

Assuming Marshall is actually interested in her, in other words he's been honest for the past six months, then at worst what she's doing is nagging. Meanwhile what he is doing, fundimentally, is lying.

I think the worst thing she's doing here is trusting him. She's not use to being attractive, she wants someone to want her, and thus she's unaware when she's caught up in someone else's garbage - and it looks like Marshall is making her suffer for his own emotional garbage right now.


Look, fundimentally at what the two characters are doing. Stan realizes that the woman he's having sex with is doing it because of emotional baggage, and his immediate instinct is to try to help her out - make her feel better, find the source of her problem, solve it. He's doesn't 'not want sex with her' he simply finds her happiness more important than sex. He doesn't want to get pleasure out of an act the other party isn't enjoying. That makes him fundimentally a nice guy - not 'unrealistic.' Simply unusual.

Marshall, on the other hand, sees a girl acting very similarly, and what does he do? Does he try and find the root of her problem? Does he ask her why she needs to do this? No, he reacts with hostility and a total lack of explaination. Not only is that abnormal, its uncaring and cruel. He's reinforcing her image of herself as ugly and unwanted, he's acting needlessly cruel, he's hurting her.

Deliberate, thought-out actions that hurt everyone involved, including yourself, aren't selfish, or uncaring, or mean - they're pathalogical. He's making everyone suffer for reasons that he won't explain - and while Stan gives motivational speeches, and chats with her, he yells and gives the silent treatment. One is nice, caring, and kind - a guy who wants the sex to mean something. One is just acting fundimentally wrong.
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Postby Ponygirl on Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:19 am

RisingPhoenix wrote: I really don't think you can sexually harass someone who you've been dating for six months.


I just had to join this discussion to say this:

This is possibly THE stupidest statement I've seen posted in this argument yet.

Sexual harrassment is when you feel harrassed regarding sex. Jokes that make you feel uncomfortable. Repeated unwelcome advances. If it's not at all possible for a guy dating a girl to feel harrassed JUST BECAUSE he's been dating her for X amount of time, does that mean that a spouse can't feel harrassed by his/her partner because they're married?
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Postby michoumichou on Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:57 am

MRodriguez wrote:What I see as strange about Marshall (although not unrealistic) is how ANGRY is he when Karen suggests sex. I know people keep on saying that if the sexes were reversed there would be all kinds of cries of 'rape' and such, but I'm a GIRL, and I've said before, if my boyfriend of six months had snuck into the shower with me, even when I told him I didn't want sex yet, I wouldn't be angry. I wouldn't give him sex, but I'd laugh it off and kick him out of the shower playfully but firmly. Not angry, more amused. Definitely wouldn't think he was trying to rape me or harrass me, because I'd been going out with the guy for SIX months, I wouldn't date someone I thought capable of rape for six months. :P


That's funny, I'm also a girl, around the same age as the characters in the story, and if a guy I had been dating for six months, or two years and six months, for that matter, had snuck into the shower with me when I wasn't ready for him to do so, I would be angry, hurt, we would not be on speaking terms any more, and he would be physically injured. Perhaps it can be seen that way, but as someone has said either here or on another forum, people are different. Just because someone doesn't conform with people's idea of the norm doesn't mean they automatically have problems.
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Postby Enirya on Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:56 am

As someone who's had "sex she didn't want" I can tell you that while it's not the textbook definition of rape it can have very damaging effects on you, your self image, yadayadayada.

Or are you gonna claim I don't have intimacy issues now and those weren't caused by my exes forcing things on me I didn't really want?

P'shaw.
There are only 10 or 01 kinds of people, those who understand big and little endian, and those who do not.
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Postby Ostracee on Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:36 am

RisingPhoenix wrote:Um, physical force or duress? What part of the duress was so unreadable? Maybe you missed the part where I described duress?


Well, if you didn't want it, you wouldn't be having it without some form of duress...so it is just sex you don't want.

RisingPhoenix wrote:I really don't think you can sexually harass someone who you've been dating for six months. I'm pretty sure sexual harassment is if one party isn't interested, and if Marshall isn't interested, then he's basically been lying for six months straight.

Assuming Marshall is actually interested in her, in other words he's been honest for the past six months, then at worst what she's doing is nagging. Meanwhile what he is doing, fundimentally, is lying.


So, every single relationship you were in, you started having sex right from the start? In high school, did you end up in bed with all of your girlfriends? Even in college? A romantic relationship doesn't become sexual until it does. While six months is a bit long, it's not unheard of. Just because they're dating doesn't mean he's interested in sex with her, yet.
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