10-2 Ow! I mean... Wow!

The teenage years. Friendships, crushes, growth... and hating. Lots of hating.

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Postby courdorygrrl on Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:01 am

iRobot wrote:
kokutan wrote:I read the 'why' as a lot of questions rolled into one. Losing one's virginity is a big thing, and I think he meant more of a combination of "Why are you still a virgin? Why didn't you tell me? Why choose me of all people?" He's totally shocked, and wants some kind of explanation.


You beat me to it by a minute. But I'm glad someone else also sees it that way.

"Um, I mean "wow"." Am I the only one who almost died laughing when I read that?


Nope. :)


I agree with this also (I'm just in an agrreable mood today!) The human mind works that way. Everyone thinks more than one thought at the same time, very few people (or characters) have such flat characteristics that they think one thing at a time, and even fewer say what they are thinking.

I cracked up too. It just hit way too close to home. I think this whole arc has been hilarious.
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Postby Tarlia on Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:44 am

Hey guys, virginity isn't really a "now you are, now you're not!" kind of deal, some girls are even born without a hymen. What he meant was "you haven't had sex before!"

Anyway, I'm torn between 'Why would you want to do this with me?' and 'Why? I totally didn't expect that because you're (insert reason here)'. We'll probably know in a week, or so, we have to get back to the three other couples first. :p
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Postby Archon Divinus on Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:06 am

My first thought was "Why are you still a virgin?" but a couple of seconds later I started to read it as "why me?"
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Postby JK9000 on Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:36 am

I'm going to subscribe to that 'multiple meanings' theory.

Now, while Michelle's expressions are no doubt worthy of praise, I feel compelled to draw attention to Stan's facial reaction as well. Specifically, the way his eyes are all bugged out in panel 2. Nice job there, Gis.
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Postby S. Edmund on Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:39 am

I'm kind of surprised. if stan is so big into casual sex and the like, I would think he would at least ask her for some basic questions. but then, she certainly wasn't acting like it'd be her first before so, eh.

and I love panel three.
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Postby Gisele Lagace on Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:46 am

Glad you guys liked the expressions on this one. Michelle's expression in panel 2 was one of the weirdest expressions I've ever drawn. Pain, pleasure, surprise and comedy all mixed into one.
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Postby ARETH on Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:00 pm

Yes, I also wanted to offer my admiration for the second panel. The whole effect, though, is what makes it work---that a girl's first time isn't all about True Love or fiery passion or whatever other preconceived notions are out there. It's painful, weird, and often pretty awkward, which you conveyed perfectly. Thanks for that amusing (and poignant!) bit of realism.
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Postby Lareth on Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:11 pm

Remember that Stan knows Michelle mostly as someone who once had a fling with Rich. The idea that she dated Rich and didn't sleep with him may shake his world a little. That she would choose him over Rich might be entirely too much for him.
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Postby Freemage on Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:41 pm

I'm looking at Michelle's face in those last two frames. She's embarassed at having been found out. I'm thinking it's somewhere between "Why didn't you tell me?" and "Why did you imply [say?] otherwise?"
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Postby Kitsuiko on Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:57 pm

Looks like Stan's become the new Penny -- "I don't like him, so he's evil!" So I'll switch my typical line that 'Penny couldn't save children from a flaming bus without people second guessing her' to his case. People throw a lot of their past baggage on people to Stan -- which makes him eight times more the demon than he actually is. He was brought into having sex with a girl that may be partially doing this to get back at her father and who wasn't upfront about her experience... which makes him the bad guy for his having agreed.

Right.

Look at his face. He looks surprised and perhaps a bit frightened or upset. When he says "You're a virgin" he looks like he just knocked over someone's favorite vase and broke it on the ground. His eyes are wide, his mouth is downturned. This doesn't look like someone who's incredulous that a popular girl like her is still a virgin. He wouldn't be quite so shocked. Maybe surprised but his expression is near horror.

I, personally, think the Why is in relation to "Why are we just... doing it like here, and this?" Stan has no problem with a long set up before getting what he wants. It probably came as a shock to him that she'd just be on the bed, spread the legs, instead of something special for her first time.
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Postby Chrysee on Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:59 pm

I think Stan is just shocked/upset/concerned now because now Michelle has put him in a very awkward position (.. ha XD).

Michelle's intentions just don't seem.. good. She comes onto him strongly, bullshits (or maybe not) some stuff about using sex to get back at her father, and while she never exactly said she wasn't a virgin, the expression on her face seems to indicate she definitely wanted to hide that fact from Stan. She's basically just lied to him about everything, or at least is using him to have sex for all the "wrong" reasons.

I mean, look at Stan and Brandi (or Stan and probably any other girl he's been with). They are nothing but honest with each other about their intentions; sex for them is casual and fun and they each get what they want from it. Stan likes his "encounters" to be mutually satisfying. Really he's a pretty okay guy.

But Michelle now complicates the situation by being deceitful and sneaky about it. In yet another gender role reversal in this story arc, Stan is the one being used.

And I really get the impression by Stan's reaction that he seems to think that maybe Michelle's first time should mean a little more to her than that.
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Postby Freemage on Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:17 pm

kitsuko: I'm not reading a whole lot of Stan-hate here. In fact, most of it has been talking about different possible reasons to slam Michelle.
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Postby ria on Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:24 pm

Perhaps all of this comes down to this --

Stan thinks that your first time should be something more meaningful than he was intending this time to be.

They are having casual sex. He may assign some meaning to one's first time beyond casual encounters... and the fact that Michelle is doing it "this way" just makes him taken aback.

He may feel like he should be (is expected to be) adding some meaning to it (if situations were reversed) that he didn't know he was getting into in the first place. He thought she was just another girl who's been with her share of other guys.

Hell, maybe he just thinks "Wow, I would have used more lube if I had known" ;) Basically, the fact that she didn't tell him means that she didn't really allow him the opportunity to afford her some extra consideration (or refuse altogether), and now he will feel guilty for not having done so (now that they've done it). I do at least credit him a conscience.

I don't think Michelle is in any way bad or wrong for wanting sex, or for her choice of first partner, but even "Um, I haven't done this before -- can you just go slower at first?" would give him the heads up but not indicate any grand expectations.

I don't think he would be reacting this way if he thought the first time should be no different from any other time.

I will say this -- I count myself thankful that my first time wasn't painful :)
Last edited by ria on Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Last Quidam on Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:31 pm

CassSpaz wrote:I, for one, find it extremely difficult to have an intensive conversation, duing, you know, sex, but maybe it's just that awkward.

I'm still a virgin but I wouldn't talk during sex either. Make noises and moan, maybe. Have a conversation? No.
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Postby Mravac Kid on Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:54 pm

snowp14 wrote:Hey, maybe she still is one and he didn't go all the way in, yet. It hurts even before you "pop", you know.

I took the "why" as a "why me?" as well. Virgins generally put a lot of emotional weight into their first time. Stan is looking for some good, casual fun. While he could always disregard her feelings and leave her alone after this, I think Stan has more of a conscience than that.

This is my impression too... his expression shows concern, and the only thing to be concerned there is why she chose him.
His motives for that concern are another matter... he wanted some fun, but her being a virgin signifies she wants a whole lot more from this. And he's most likely not willing to give more.

Gisele Lagace wrote:Glad you guys liked the expressions on this one. Michelle's expression in panel 2 was one of the weirdest expressions I've ever drawn. Pain, pleasure, surprise and comedy all mixed into one.

And you pulled it off magnificently.
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Postby L-ren on Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:25 pm

Y'know, despite the fact that Stan is worried/shocked/horrified I think part of him is honoured that Michelle would choose him as her first time.

Would it make me a total weirdo to say that Stan looks cute in this strip?
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Postby Stella Polaris on Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:16 pm

oddtail wrote:That being said, I like Stan a little less than I used to before reading the strip. I mean, he acts (IMO) like he'd expect all attractive girls roughly his age not to be virgins anymore. It shows a considerable lack of... dunno, imagination perhaps.

What I mean is, Stan apparently likes sex and does it a lot, for fun. I don't think he takes advantage of girls, and his treating sex casually is his choice. But he seems to think (or rather, feel on a subconscious level) that everyone is similar to him in that respect.


I strongly disagree with you. Stan might have sex and he might have a light view on it when it comes to his own position, but I think it's bullshit to say that just because he wasn't able to somehow magically see through Michelle's seduces, he assumes all girls his age have had sex. If a girl or a guy came onto me wearing something like that and said "have sex with me" as casually as Michelle did, I would assume they're not a virgin.

My point is, Stan was not assuming all girls his age have had sex. He was assuming that a girl acting like Michelle did had had sex.

So, I read "why" _mostly_ as "why'd you still be a virgin, if you're an attractive girl and you could have and should have scored a long time ago? You missed on all the fun!". This, of course, would be a (sort of) compliment to her if I were right. But then again, it would be quite narrow-minded of him.


I disagree with you on this too. There's nothing about Stans expression that would insinuate thoughts like these. And once again, you're basing this interpretation on your view that Stan thinks that all girls have had sex already, which I think is not the case, so in my eyes, your interpretation of the "why" is a bit... hostile towards Stan.
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Postby CaRinn on Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:52 pm

I read it as a "WHY DIDNT YOU TELL ME!" before i thought of it as a "WHY ME?!"

i laughed so hard at the expression on her face in the second panel.
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Postby LeonardC on Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:04 pm

I wouldn't take this as an opportunity for Stan-hate. I've never liked him, but this doesn't make me like him any less. I don't really know what to make of it, until I know what to make of the "why?" As y'all have demonstrated, there are an awful lot of things that could mean. My guess is "why with me, then?" But since I'm a guy who's a lot less confident than Stan is, that may be reading him totally wrong.
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Postby Cameo on Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:34 pm

daanton wrote:
Cameo wrote:Personally, I read it as "why are you still a virgin", as in "you're so desirable that the fact no one's had sex with you yet comes as a shock".

Not sure why that's the most obvious interpretation for me... especially considering my considerable dislike of Stan.

So I take it according to "the gospel of Stan" that being a virgin and staying a virgin (at least until marriage) is no longer deemed "in", "hip" or relevant?? :-|

Well, he's clearly not saving himself for marriage, and it kinda seems like he's accustomed to the idea of attractive girls around his own age not being interested in staying virgins until marriage...

That said, though, now that I've had the chance to analyse it a bit more, I think the multiple-questions explanation makes more sense. "Why are you still a virgin" sprung to mind mainly because, grammatically speaking (not that grammar is a major concern in the midst of sex), it seemed to be the most logical interpretation.
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Postby taotu on Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:41 pm

Freemage wrote:kitsuko: I'm not reading a whole lot of Stan-hate here. In fact, most of it has been talking about different possible reasons to slam Michelle.


Thank you, I completely agree. It's kind of been scaring me off these boards lately because I can't stand all the Michelle-bashing.

When my mother (yes my mother's told me all about her sexual experiences-blegh- but didn't want me to repeat her mistakes) was young she had severe self-esteem problems, and found herself really interested in the good-looking guy at school. She really wanted to be with him, not only because she found him attractive and interesting (despite the fact he was a massive asshole- which Stan is not, by the way) but also because she was so desperate to feel attractive and desired herself. She put a whole load of preparation into hitting on this guy, very much like Michelle did- with asking people quietly for tips, and trying to flirt- though at that point my mother would never have been confident enough to replicate Michelle's actions- and would have and did hide the fact that she was a virgin from him. It humiliated her. She thought he would never have any interest in her if she was inexperienced. She put up a false air of confidence by dressing sexily and flirting, but in the end she was just making a mistake and looking for sex for the wrong reasons.

Does that make her some sort of horrible person? No. People make mistakes far worse than this all the time, and the only person that mistake hurt was my mother. The only person Michelle's mistake will hurt is Michelle. I've seen so much of my mother's situation in Michelle's circumstances that reading all of these people badmouthing her makes me feel terrible. She's making a mistake, yes. But she is not some sort of manipulative bitch. Lay off the Michelle bashing, please. I believe she is genuinely interested in Stan, but does not understand how to handle it. She might very well think that this is the only way she could ever be with him- a casual fling.

My heart bleeds for Michelle. I'm just glad that Stan isn't as much of a heartless asshole as the man my mother slept with.
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Postby SaraStar on Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:30 am

I see this strip as Stan going "Holy crap! I TOOK your virginity!" The "why" is probably his vocalization of the weight that puts on his shoulders.

It's kind of a 'Oh, and by the way... that pop you just felt? Yeah. That was my cherry.' Wasn't Michelle's brightest moment. But I guess she was just desperate.
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We could be reading too much into it dudes

Postby Kuroinu on Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:08 am

There are a number of ways that this--hysterical-- comic could be taken. But we might all be reading a leeeetle too much into it. I think Stan's reaction was a just total guy reaction to sleeping with a hot chick that has never had sex.

Michelle: I am SO hawt, but I've never had sex!
Stan: :o

That's how I took it when I first read it....after I calmed down from laughing. Of course, I could see it as him saying "WHY ME?!" as well.

Michelle: I'm hot, DO ME! But I'm a virgin, so be gentle.
Stan: :o WHY MUST IT BE ME?!

As for "why did you pick me?" or "why don't you want your first time to be special" I can guarentee that's not the first thing on his mind. The "Why has no one tapped yo' hot ass" would definitely be up in the first thought, and maybe later, other and more profound thoughts would occur after his penis is done talking.

But I must say. I would enjoy the irony of all this going against what Brandi said! Ya know, when she said, "most guys don't mind being your first." What if Stan hated deflowering girls? ooooh. Funtimes.
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Postby Yuko no Slayer-Dryad on Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:07 am

Sebastian wrote:Anyway between the dialogue and facial expression this is probably the less erotic sex scen I'd ever seen. :D


What do you expect from a pair of teenagers? It's not like they ever bothered to make sure they know what they're doing. This would especially be the case if they were Americans like myself. Real sex knowledge is a rather private look-it-up-yourself-or-do-without subject and about 90% of all of open talk about sex and the like available to people without trial-and-error experience is sensationalist innuendo and double-talk. Stan hasn't grasped the concept of foreplay or anything past what they show animals doing on the Discovery Channel and Michelle doesn't know what the hell she's doing.

I really, really hope either Michelle took a reliable pill or Stan is wearing a reliable condom or better yet both!

Back to the current strip, I'm thinking Stan's shock is likely from guilt of assuming this situation was exactly the same as with Brandi, and in learning it's not, he feels like he's taking advantage of her rather than satisfying their mutual desires. Most jerks would find it an honor to deflower a virgin, and Stan is shocked to find out he is doing just that.

Another possibility is that he feels he is being unfair to her for not being a virgin himself, which would be a case of guy logic and wouldn't mean anything to Michelle.
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Postby trudyscousin on Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:45 am

Until the plot further unfolds, we won't know exactly what Stan meant.

It's interesting that Brandi thought she had him figured out, but apparently doesn't.

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