Ding, ding, ding went the trolley.....

The teenage years. Friendships, crushes, growth... and hating. Lots of hating.

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Ding, ding, ding went the trolley.....

Postby Papuasblya on Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:32 pm

Oh, now we've removed all doubt.

1) He's involved with a woman whom no other male has expressed a carnal interest in. The term is "beard."

2) He's rebuffed every sexual advance she's made to him with what appears to be an iron fist in a velvet glove, and now apparently without said glove. He's not putting her off because his superego is well developed, he's putting her off because his gut is screaming NO FISH.

3) He's in great shape and well endowed, with an androgynous face and kind manners. That alone disqualifies him from the Breeder Olympics.

4) He's embarrassed when a woman looks at his endowment. I don't care if he wants her or not, no straight guy is going to mind women -- the girls in school, the ladies at the club, his neighbor's mom, the old lady at the laundromat, etc. -- checking out God's Gift To Marshall.

5) He's named MARSHALL for God's sake. That's up there with Nigel, Trevor, Rupert or Bruce in the "Could it be any MORE obvious what team I play for?" category.

Not that there's anything wrong with it, but I think our young friend has a great career ahead of him in musical theatre or the Catholic Church.
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Re: Ding, ding, ding went the trolley.....

Postby Sebastian on Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:39 pm

Papuasblya wrote:Oh, now we've removed all doubt.


Agreed, you are a troll for sure.
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Postby taotu on Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:50 pm

:grumble: Well... if'n that ain't ever sexist.

So girls are permitted to be nervous about having sex, and not want it, but guys- oh no, even if their mind says 'whoa, we're moving way too fast'- they should go for it?

Nuh-uh, don't buy it, sorry. Marshall's straight, but sex means a great deal more to him than physical gratification.

...Incidentally, out of my friends, the one who slept with the most girls... turned out to be Gay. :smug:
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Postby snowp14 on Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:56 pm

...Incidentally, out of my friends, the one who slept with the most girls... turned out to be Gay.


HAHA that is great :lol:

Not this argument again. Again, it's not gonna get anywhere. Some people are going to insist Marshall is gay based on gender roles and stereotypes, while others are going to argue against it, and no one's going to back down.
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Just to clarify two things

Postby Papuasblya on Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:21 am

1) I'm not a troll. I'm just opinionated, offensive, and shallow-minded at times.

2) I'm not down on Marshall: if he's gay, so what, so he's gay Marshall. Big deal, he's part of 10% of the population. I'm just saying that the frames we have seen of him go beyond "oh what a nice boy" -- while it would be admirable for a straight man to proceed cautiously towards physical intimacy, it would be unnatural for him to do so with NO INTERNAL STRUGGLE whatsoever. He appears to have no sex drive at all. We never see him kiss Karen, we never see him looking at her with lust, we never see him alone fantasizing about her, we never see a shoulder devil arguing with a shoulder angel about how to respond to Miss Do Me Now and her blatant offers of a quick trip to the Temple of Venus, we never see him taking a cold shower or coming out of a bathroom with a relieved look on his face, we never see him talking to anyone about her, we never even see him turning to some religious force to keep El Monstro from taking over his brain. A chaste teenage heartthrob is possibly realistic -- but an EFFORTLESSLY chaste teenage heartthrob? PAT BOONE had a harder time keeping it in his pants as a kid than this guy does. When we do see him encountering heterosexual intercourse, it is with either forceful rejection ('birthday girl wants cake'), serious discomfort (the episode where Brandi is having A Real Good Time), or anger and disgust ('my eyes are up here').
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Postby kash on Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:07 am

just because we never see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

It just means he's a private person.
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Postby Trollroot on Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:50 am

I'm inclined to Papuasblyas way of thinking here. If he is straight, he is seriously not a normal teenager. Maybe a very late developer, but the body would argue against that.

If he is not gay, he is seriously abnormal. "My eyes are up here"? That argues some kind of bad emotional trauma in his past. Maybe he has some endoctrinal difficulties, but I'd be more inclined to a psycological problem.

Over the last 20-odd years, I have attended 5 universities in 3 countries. On and off. I've been reasonably sociable. I've never encountered anyone remotely like this.
The closest I've seen is seriously religous people. And even they change their opinions once sex becomes a realistic possiblity.

Amusingly, perhaps the nearest equivalent to this is in the minds of people with a memory of their youth badly at odds with everyone elses memory.

You meet up 10 years after, and the guy goes "I could have had so-and-so, but I had principles" Everyone else just exchanges "the look."
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Postby Sassy-fras on Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:37 am

Whether Marshall turns out to like guys or not, it's evident that it's taboo for a guy to say no to sex when a girl is throwing herself at him. If he does, he's automatically not part of the straight crowd. Hetero males of the world beware! Showing your emotions and having principles is a big no-no!
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Re: Ding, ding, ding went the trolley.....

Postby iRobot on Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:42 am

Sebastian wrote:
Papuasblya wrote:Oh, now we've removed all doubt.


Agreed, you are a troll for sure.


Seconded.
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Postby JK9000 on Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:22 am

"Possesing opinions I strongly disagree with" != troll, folks.

That said, I do disagree. I mean, look at Marshall here- he's blushing, frantic, clearly uncomfortable, and I'd say there's a strong chance Karen's looking at an erection down there.

I think it's obvious he's sexually attracted to Karen... Which would make him not gay. Whether he wants to act on that attraction or not, and for what reasons, is a tottaly different issue.
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Postby atristain on Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:24 am

Sexual preferences apart, what Marshall says it's so odd, that it's funny to hear an "Eyes up here" expression coming from a guy.

I think Karen was not only blushed for watching at Marshall's endowment, but because the state of said endowment at the moment. You know what happens when a certain amount of blood goes to said endowment. Fortunately, it looks like the amount is not enough to leave the Marshall's brain (and principles) unchecked, like it seems to happens to a lot of guys (me included)

At least Karen didn't say something like this girl says in the 3rd panel:

http://jackiesfridge.comicgenesis.com/d/20010905.html
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Postby Theola on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:14 am

Uh, it's ok for guys to be attractive, not want sex, and still be straight. What a wild concept, for the world not to revolve around homosexuality! Woah!! Bizzarre!!! :o Maybe Marshal just doesn't want that commitment and pressure at this young age. Good on him, is what I say. All you say is "dur hurrrr, have sex, dude! You're not a man unless you do!"


By the way. It's clang. Clang went the trolley, ding went the bell.
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Postby courdorygrrl on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:34 am

I'm just opinionated, offensive, and shallow-minded at times


In my experience...that IS the definition of a troll.

For my part, I find it hilarious that Marshall would use that particular expression. He probably picked it up from Charisma or one of the other lady trainers. He does work in a gym, after all.

And I agree with the last poster that not all guys think that the world revolves around sex, actually, very few of them do. My fiance gets irritated with me at times because I'm pushy and he's tired/embarassed about something/distracted/etc.[/quote]
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Re: Just to clarify two things

Postby Rinoa on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:45 am

Papuasblya wrote:We never see him kiss Karen...

That's not true. Proof by contradiction: http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20050927.html
And for the record, he looks far more into it than she does. Does that make Karen a lesbian?
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Postby Freemage on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:47 am

Sassy-fras wrote:Whether Marshall turns out to like guys or not, it's evident that it's taboo for a guy to say no to sex when a girl is throwing herself at him. If he does, he's automatically not part of the straight crowd. Hetero males of the world beware! Showing your emotions and having principles is a big no-no!


Eh, not quite what Papu was saying, Sassy. I suggest going back and reading the SECOND post again--it makes the point much better. He may very well have drawn the wrong conclusion, but his core point is that Marshall doesn't show ANY emotion--he goes through the motions, but there's no evidence given that he's ever more than 'sweet'.

I'm also getting tired of the 'maybe we just don't see it' position. Sure, it's possible that every time the 'camera frame' is off of Marshall, he's pulling out a photo of Karen in a bikini and stroking the Bishop. Or is resorting to some other means of self-control. But it's also 'possible' that he's got a collection of human heads in his fridge. Analysis like these discussions is based on available evidence. Papu is giving one possible interpretation of the evidence that we have; it's definitely a stronger case than one that insists that Marshall is a totally average teenage male. The odds are fairly strong that there is some sort of issue going on here, simply because his reactions to Karen are not typical, even if one makes the more generous assumptions about his motives.
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Postby Enaronia on Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:04 am

There are people who get out of high school without multiple sexual encounters. There are people who are embarrassed by unwanted sexual advances.

Actually, most guys I know would act a lot like Marshal is if they had a significant other do what Karen did. He's pissed off, and he has every right to be.

If he resisted her first advance, resisting everything else is consistancy. Real people don't suddenly bend (whether it's sexual or not) because you keep asking the same thing. If anything, they're going to get annoyed.
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Postby angelkatie9 on Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:22 am

[quote="Trollroot"]
The closest I've seen is seriously religous people. And even they change their opinions once sex becomes a realistic possiblity.
quote]

That would be an odd twist wouldn't it - Marshall being a religious fanatic and pairing up with Charlotte in the end! AHHHH~!

Yeah, I don't see that happening, but an interesting thought nontheless :P

A couple of things to consider that have been mentioned at some point or another:

1. Someone mentioned before that (if Marshall is Charisma's son), there might be some conflict there with his mom leaving his dad and dating new people. Maybe he's feeling particularly sensitive lately BECAUSE he knows his mom is out dating someone that she (seemingly) hasn't even introduced him to yet -- and he's mad at her. And in the event that Marshall's father left Charisma and/or died prior to all this, he might still have the same problems with her.

2. As previously stated Marshall gets a lot of attention for being attractive. He may have been in relationships before with shallow girls who wanted him for nothing beyond that. Even if they didn't advance on him for sex, if they showed no interest in anything else he did (besides stand there and look pretty) it would still be rather irritating. After all, Marshall has been seen before thinking about "being crushed" and how he can trust his weights more than he can people because he KNOWS when they'll crush him.

As realistic as he's acting or not, based on everyone's personal opinions, I don't think Marshall is gay. I think he's just withdrawn and has a different point of view than most guys his age. When you've had a lot of bad experiences in the past, female or male, I think you hesitate to rush into anything similar. (Plus, if you think you've got something good going finally you don't want to rush it and watch it crash on you again.)
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Postby catpryde on Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:26 am

People keep saying that Marshall never shows interest and is always so unresponsive to Karen. Has anyone noticed that Giselle seems to depict everyone else's internal dialogue's except a few? Marshall being one of them?
1) God forbid a guy actually not have the typical male-taught mentality that he's going to jump at sex at any time he can. Fact is we haven't seen ANY mental dialogue in his own head from his interactions with Karen, flat out, we have had NO idea what he's thinking.
2) Prior to common believe, people are, in fact, in control of their own bodies. This is a guy who is severely into self-discipline through physical activity and being healthy and fit. He has a lot of self-control. He might be popping a wood, but just because he is it doesn't necessarily mean he's going to have to fight himself not to just go at it with Karen in a PUBLIC GYM in the shower there.

He's pissed, she's being obnoxiously forceful and aggressive. If he was female and Karen were female it would be seen as attempts at rape.
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Postby CEOIII on Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:20 am

Call Papuasblya a troll all you like (and he's not one; there's a big diff between "strongly stating an opinon the rest of the board doesn't agree with" and "stating a contrary opinon just to be a prick") but I think all doubts about Marshall's sexuality just vanished with the following sentence:

My eyes are up here!


No straight guy on the planet has EVER said that. EVER.
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Re: Just to clarify two things

Postby Papuasblya on Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:42 am

Rinoa wrote:
Papuasblya wrote:We never see him kiss Karen...

That's not true. Proof by contradiction: http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20050927.html
And for the record, he looks far more into it than she does. Does that make Karen a lesbian?


1) Guest artist, not canon, not useful as evidence.

2) That is one LAME kiss. Most people use more tongue with their grandmothers.
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Postby Papuasblya on Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:46 am

catpryde wrote:If he was female and Karen were female it would be seen as attempts at rape.


If he was female and Karen were female, this comic strip would have a much larger readership...
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Postby Papuasblya on Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:48 am

courdorygrrl wrote:
I'm just opinionated, offensive, and shallow-minded at times


In my experience...that IS the definition of a troll.

[/quote]

Ah, so in order not to be a troll I should also become self-righteous. Noted.
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Postby Papuasblya on Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:49 am

Theola wrote:By the way. It's clang. Clang went the trolley, ding went the bell.


What do I know? I'm straight....
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Postby Papuasblya on Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:04 pm

CEOIII wrote:
My eyes are up here!


No straight guy on the planet has EVER said that. EVER.


My point exactly. If he were straight he would have no idea what she's looking at for the simple reason that he'd be staring at her Dairy Queens or the Devil's Triangle himself. Look folks, as much as you want to believe otherwise, straight guys are hardwired differently than Marshall. Sure, some of them resist the urge to punch every ticket presented, but this guy doesn't even LOOK at her like she turns him on. I sincerely hope it's just because he's gay, because the other alternatives are really frightening. He could have been abused, he could be a religious nut, or worse yet, a Republican...
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Re: Just to clarify two things

Postby Sebastian on Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:01 pm

Papuasblya wrote:
Rinoa wrote:
Papuasblya wrote:We never see him kiss Karen...

That's not true. Proof by contradiction: http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20050927.html
And for the record, he looks far more into it than she does. Does that make Karen a lesbian?


1) Guest artist, not canon, not useful as evidence.


The artist was a guest but the writer was always T. It is canon.
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