I hate Aggie

The teenage years. Friendships, crushes, growth... and hating. Lots of hating.

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My two cents....

Postby Sassy-fras on Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:51 pm

I have to say, after reading this topic I was left...well, feeling like I'm on an island of my own. As much as I love P&A, I don't think I put as much emphasis on which character I like more and why. I kind of appreciate every character and what they add to the story. It's an entertaining formula that, I think, if I hated one character more than another...I might lose the fun. So no, I don't particularly "hate" any character. There are some characters I can relate to more.

I know what it feels like to be an Aggie, a Karen, a Marshall, a Rich; I've been Stan like at times, even a little like Michelle. There are days I'm like Penny, and moments I feel like Sara. Basically, I think there's a little bit of something in all of us...and perhaps that's why we get annoyed, irritated, or disdainful towards it. We're reminded a little something about ourselves that we may not like, or perhaps wish to change.

Meh. I dunno. I think I'm gonna hang out with Melody instead. She's neutral since she's in heaven. *hangs with the dead character*
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Postby rcmonroe on Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:58 pm

JackFairy wrote:
rcmonroe wrote:
JackFairy wrote:Well, duh. Whites WANT black people to assimilate. Assimilation is what makes "good" minorities.


JackFairy wrote: don't use incendiary or offensive wording in your posts if you actually want people to read and pay attention to them!


Oops.


What was offensive about my post? Unless you can't bear the thought that racism still exists and that institutional racism is quite thriving?


I can bear a lot of things, in fact I assumed you were joking when you made the claim that "whites" (as in, every single one of them) all "want" the same thing (subjugation of an entire race).

I also figured you might see the irony of your two statements in relation to one another. Let's just say that some people might consider your first statement "incendiary."

Hence the "oops."
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Postby JackFairy on Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:24 pm

Oh no! I am (supposedly) stereotyping white people! God forbid someone has to bear that! And am using "white" to mean "a sizeable majority of white people" without clarifying that no, I don't mean "every single last white person living"! :-P

I don't know, I guess I don't think what I said was very incendiary unless one is VERY defensive about being white. In which case one should get over it. :-) Also, I didn't say all white people want the subjugation of an entire race, I said they want the assimilation of other cultures/races into their value system, and their adoption of means of behavior that they see as comfortable and non-threatening in regard to their preconceptions, and so-called "normal."


But actually, I think I meant "whites" not even in the sense of "a lot of whites" but in the sense of "whites as a group; white culture." Because our current social structure (in the US) definitely rewards those minorities who adopt white cultural values, and usually is not half so kind to those who don't, with some exceptions. Thus the way white Americans speak is "proper English," while as black urban dialects are "bad English" and people who speak that way are assumed to be stupid/violent/uncultured/etc. The way that white middle class Americans dress and accessorize is "normal," while as many other styles are "ghetto" or "trashy" or "uncouth." To get a job, to advance in education, to not be harassed and randomly pulled over by cops when you're driving, you have to adopt the "middle class white" look, and act "white." In fact it's so prevalent that most people just think of it as acting "proper," but "proper" usually means, well... the way middle-upper class white people act.
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Postby badkittyface on Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:45 pm

why does everyone call Karen fat? Tharqa's the fat one.
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Postby L-ren on Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:10 pm

badkittyface wrote:why does everyone call Karen fat? Tharqa's the fat one.


I lawl'd.
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Postby badkittyface on Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:19 pm

i'm just sayin'.
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Postby Yawnitz on Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:40 pm

The only action I've seen in this comic that I just really hate is when Rich, Jack, and Stan ganged up on that one kid to beat him up for saying Rich was pussy-whipped.

I've been through similar, and that kind of thing rubs me the wrong way in a bad way.

I've gotten a bit bigger, stronger, and more aggressive since high school, and seeing something like that puts me in a bit of a fighting mood.

In my most passionate expressions of anger, I've mostly barked. Still, I tend to bark loudly enough that people generally haven't wanted to put my bite to the test.
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Postby Cameo on Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:25 pm

JackFairy wrote:But actually, I think I meant "whites" not even in the sense of "a lot of whites" but in the sense of "whites as a group; white culture." Because our current social structure (in the US) definitely rewards those minorities who adopt white cultural values, and usually is not half so kind to those who don't, with some exceptions. Thus the way white Americans speak is "proper English," while as black urban dialects are "bad English" and people who speak that way are assumed to be stupid/violent/uncultured/etc. The way that white middle class Americans dress and accessorize is "normal," while as many other styles are "ghetto" or "trashy" or "uncouth." To get a job, to advance in education, to not be harassed and randomly pulled over by cops when you're driving, you have to adopt the "middle class white" look, and act "white." In fact it's so prevalent that most people just think of it as acting "proper," but "proper" usually means, well... the way middle-upper class white people act.

I'd at least like to think that the way people look, live and behave isn't intrinsically linked to their race instead of opposed to their personality, the environment they were raised in, and other such things. After all, a person raised in a middle-class suburb would most likely have ended up being very different if they were raised in an impoverished inner-city area instead, regardless of this hypothetical person's race.
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Postby isobel on Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:33 pm

badkittyface wrote:why does everyone call Karen fat? Tharqa's the fat one.

'Cause if you were in a fight with Tharqa and called her fat, she'd probably look at you funny and call you Captain Obvious. Now, if you did it to Karen, she'd have a hissy fit or a nervous breakdown. The latter is much more satisfying if you happen to hate Karen. XD
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Postby JackFairy on Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:01 pm

Cameo wrote:I'd at least like to think that the way people look, live and behave isn't intrinsically linked to their race instead of opposed to their personality, the environment they were raised in, and other such things.


Of course, but the fact stands that we are still a very segregated society, and it's not entirely accidental that inner-city neighborhoods tend to be predominantly populated with people of color, while as most of the upper-middle class susburban areas I've visited have been primarily white. (And by this I don't mean that the divide is due to instrinsic genetic factors.) This is why I was talking about the mainstream white culture as opposed to white people per se. And there is in fact a "white American culture" as opposed to a "black American culture" (as opposed to other cultures, none of them homogeneous, of course) that makes it so that even people living in similar economic and environmental circumstances might not behave in exactly culturally-similar ways.
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Postby rcmonroe on Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:43 am

JackFairy wrote:Oh no! I am (supposedly) stereotyping white people! God forbid someone has to bear that! And am using "white" to mean "a sizeable majority of white people" without clarifying that no, I don't mean "every single last white person living"! :-P

I don't know, I guess I don't think what I said was very incendiary unless one is VERY defensive about being white. In which case one should get over it. :-) Also, I didn't say all white people want the subjugation of an entire race, I said they want the assimilation of other cultures/races into their value system, and their adoption of means of behavior that they see as comfortable and non-threatening in regard to their preconceptions, and so-called "normal."


But actually, I think I meant "whites" not even in the sense of "a lot of whites" but in the sense of "whites as a group; white culture." Because our current social structure (in the US) definitely rewards those minorities who adopt white cultural values, and usually is not half so kind to those who don't, with some exceptions. Thus the way white Americans speak is "proper English," while as black urban dialects are "bad English" and people who speak that way are assumed to be stupid/violent/uncultured/etc. The way that white middle class Americans dress and accessorize is "normal," while as many other styles are "ghetto" or "trashy" or "uncouth." To get a job, to advance in education, to not be harassed and randomly pulled over by cops when you're driving, you have to adopt the "middle class white" look, and act "white." In fact it's so prevalent that most people just think of it as acting "proper," but "proper" usually means, well... the way middle-upper class white people act.


"One" might also consider "getting over" thinking someone else is being defensive when they call "one" out for being careless with "one's" choice of words. I'm well aware of, and deeply disturbed by, the existence of institutionalized racism; the fact that I objected to what appeared to be blatant stereotyping of whites in no way implies that I'm insensitive to or in denial over the plight of non-whites. But don't take my word for it; you're free to make up your mind about what I think and feel based on whatever criteria fits your needs.
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Postby JackFairy on Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:09 am

rcmonroe wrote:
"One" might also consider "getting over" thinking someone else is being defensive when they call "one" out for being careless with "one's" choice of words. I'm well aware of, and deeply disturbed by, the existence of institutionalized racism; the fact that I objected to what appeared to be blatant stereotyping of whites in no way implies that I'm insensitive to or in denial over the plight of non-whites. But don't take my word for it; you're free to make up your mind about what I think and feel based on whatever criteria fits your needs.


I don't think I was careless--I think it was pretty obvious I was using "whites" in the meaning of "white mainstream [American] culture," as I said. AND I was not exactly saying what you assumed me to be saying (the whole subjugation bit when I was talking about assimilation.) All that aside, though, I would love to know if you or anyone else has ever heard a white person sincerely complain about a person of color acting "too white" or being "too" assimilated into the mainstream American culture. This is entirely sincere--I'd be very curious if you could tell me of such an instance and the circumstances thereof.

Also, uh, I am in fact quite, quite white. And I even have lots of white friends--in fact, some of my very best friends are white. ;-) So it would be quite odd of me to stereotype all white people.
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Postby Yawnitz on Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:50 am

isobel wrote:'Cause if you were in a fight with Tharqa and called her fat, she'd probably look at you funny and call you Captain Obvious. Now, if you did it to Karen, she'd have a hissy fit or a nervous breakdown. The latter is much more satisfying if you happen to hate Karen. XD

Nope.
http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20051220.html
Already been done, and she didn't care.
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Postby Sebastian on Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:28 am

Yawnitz wrote:
isobel wrote:'Cause if you were in a fight with Tharqa and called her fat, she'd probably look at you funny and call you Captain Obvious. Now, if you did it to Karen, she'd have a hissy fit or a nervous breakdown. The latter is much more satisfying if you happen to hate Karen. XD

Nope.
http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20051220.html
Already been done, and she didn't care.


That because she was prepared to it, and from that last comic she was in ( http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20060906.html ), looks like she obvously still care about it.
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Postby Yawnitz on Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:51 am

I think the only person who could call Karen fat, and she would get upset over, is if Marshall himself did so.
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Postby Sassy-fras on Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:58 am

JackFairyAll that aside, though, I would love to know if you or anyone else has ever heard a white person sincerely complain about a person of color acting "too white" or being "too" assimilated into the mainstream American culture. This is entirely sincere--I'd be very curious if you could tell me of such an instance and the circumstances thereof.


I kind of see JackFairy's point. My own family, that's mixed with many races, has made me feel as if I'm "too white" at times. My cousins have said that to me. And, my own father said to me, that it appears I'm not proud of being a Latino because I date outside of my own race. Then again, to contradict JackFairy a little, my ex's family didn't approve of me because I'm not white, I came from New York, and I didn't speak with a ghetto accent. They pretty much thought (I guess since I'm "too white") I was a fraud since I didn't dress like I was from New York or acted like I was from New York. And they are predominantly a white family.

No matter what you are, somebody will give you beef about the culture you've adapted to, your sexual orientations, what social group you float with, or even your hobbies. On more than one occassion I have been questioned about my fascination with comics at my age, as well as, my gender. I've learned I just have to roll with the people that appreciate me for me and don't think I'm more of something to feed their own insecurities.
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Postby rcmonroe on Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:55 am

JackFairy wrote:
I don't think I was careless--I think it was pretty obvious I was using "whites" in the meaning of "white mainstream [American] culture," as I said. AND I was not exactly saying what you assumed me to be saying (the whole subjugation bit when I was talking about assimilation.) All that aside, though, I would love to know if you or anyone else has ever heard a white person sincerely complain about a person of color acting "too white" or being "too" assimilated into the mainstream American culture. This is entirely sincere--I'd be very curious if you could tell me of such an instance and the circumstances thereof.

Also, uh, I am in fact quite, quite white. And I even have lots of white friends--in fact, some of my very best friends are white. ;-) So it would be quite odd of me to stereotype all white people.


I have an imperfect example of what you're looking for. A good friend of mine is of mixed race
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Postby RentACop on Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:57 am

Getting back to the other bit, there's no one character I dislike. With the main exception of Charlotte I know people similiar to all of them so I guess I've been using what I know of my friends to flesh out aspects I find unappealing. Plus they're cartoons.
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Postby quitejaded on Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:34 pm

LeonardC - Heh, I didn't mention Stan because I LIKE him.

Yawnitz - I'm not sure. She might show in face that she's too good to care what that person said. I don't really know if it would hurt her inside.

Are we over this "chubby" thing now? Since when is the word chubby that offensive and why is calling a character chubby having anything to do with my issues? Its not like I was calling her a wetback or a nigger or whatever her race is.

Speaking of Oreos, I know a lot of white people... just people in general who have issues with black people trying to be Uh-oh Oreos. Look white on the outside, and still black on the inside. Beyonce, for example, wears blonde weaves and uses skin lightener and some people see this as trying to be white.

I, personally, don't give a crap. She looks hot. I'll have a problem with "trying to be/look like another race" when it becomes unattractive.

And a few black people who have problems with Oreos. I don't know WHY considering black people are nothing like Africans.
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Postby GreenKore on Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:34 pm

Conversations about race are quite messy sometimes, especially on the Internet. As participating in one wasn't the reason I registered today, I'm going to go back to the topic of Aggie hate.

I don't hate Aggie, though I don't think everyone should be compelled to love her. Most fans can agree she's pretty flawed: selfish, stubborn, often stupid, jealous, pretentious, and hypocritical once in a blue moon.

In short, human.

Out of the characters on Peggy and Aggie, I can relate to her the most. It's not because she's bohemian, anti-establishment, environmental, or any of those things. Her flaws were (and still are) my flaws.

Out of most of the cast, she's making an attempt to do something with her teen years a little beyond malls and cliqu
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Postby Andie Nicole on Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:13 pm

I don't dislike Aggie, though she has annoyed me at times.

The character I really hate is Sara. She's judgemental, and almost every appearance she says something about 'Don't judge me!'.
I'll judge her if I want to >.>

Freemage wrote:[1--since there's always at least one person who doesn't get a reference like this] "Oreo": Derogatory slang in the U.S. for blacks who largely have assimilated into middle-class WASP settings; the reference is to being 'black on the outside, white on the inside'. Disturbingly enough, it's most commonly heard in the black community.


I've never heard the term "Oreo" on it's own, but I've heard "Uh-Oh Oreo", white on the outside, black on the inside, once or twice at my school. I don't remember when, but I keep hearing it in the voice of a girl that is really kind of like that. A lot of people at my school are like that.
They talk and walk and dress like they think black kids should, they only listen to rap, and I've overheard one girl like this saying, "...'Cause I don't hang out with no white people!"
Hahahahaha!

In my school, the prevailing additude is that black people automatically dance better, play basketball better, and are all-around cooler.

Which I find hilarious because I always here this right around the time this one black girl that was in my science class last year starts to try and dance. She thinks she succeeds. It's... sad.
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Postby Aris Katsaris on Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:16 pm

JackFairy wrote:I don't know, I guess I don't think what I said was very incendiary unless one is VERY defensive about being white. In which case one should get over it. :-)


Perhaps people should just avoid being intentionally provocative and then pretending that it's the people who are provoked that "should get over it". Same thing with "chubby" as with the racial trollery.

And some smileys just add insult to injury.

Also, I didn't say all white people want the subjugation of an entire race, I said they want the assimilation of other cultures/races into their value system


I have no idea what a "white" value system is supposed to be like.
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Postby JackFairy on Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:02 pm

Aris Katsaris wrote:I have no idea what a "white" value system is supposed to be like.


How nice for you! You have that luxury.

And yes, again, being white, I am very, very prejudiced against whites. Very. I just hate all white people because, being white, I know that all whites are entirely, exactly the same.

P.S. Since when is voicing the fact that we live in a culture which is saturated with racism "racial trollery"? Am I supposed to pretend that everything's lovely and everyone's colorblind?

P.P.S. Sassy-fras, what you said about your ex's family was very interesting. I guess you didn't match their expectations or something, and that made them uncomfortable. Too bad for them. Thanks for that example. :-)

P.P.P.S. Rcmonroe--Sorry if you thought my original post implied that I think every single individual white person wishes people of color to abandon their culture. Though honestly, I still don't see how it could be read like that.
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Postby Stannish on Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:35 pm

Aggie acts like plenty of people I know. Cause-oriented, but at the same time unable to make a difference.

I think Sara is an interesting character. Controlling and manipulative, but strategic in a way.
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Postby Wee Lil Dragon on Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:43 pm

Yes, I agree that Aggie is a bit of a hypocrit sometimes (the consumer bit for instance when Penny was a saleswoman), but I have to admire here idealism for at least she's not cynical or indifferent.

Not that I dislike Penny. She's a nice person, I think, who indeed does care about here friends. Though they have to know their place.

Then again she has probably done some pretty awfull things. The writers of this comic just don't go into that much further.
For instance what she did to meg(?). One of her rivals.
Penny has some bad points, they just don't get highlighted.

Edit:
Found it: http://www.pennyandaggie.com/d/20041006.html
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