New Series. Suggestions?

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New Series. Suggestions?

Postby Meebs on Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:18 pm

I have a new series called "The Epic Expedition for Empenadas".
It's basically just a series as random as I could make it.

So far the episodes don't have that much animation to them, I plan to gradually increase the amount of frame by frame i put into it.
(Ep 3 will have more animation)

Episode 1: http://www.nadcartoons.com/cartoons/eee/1.htm
Don't like it that much, It was just a pilot to give people an idea of the series.
I realize that one of the charachters is similar to ingus, but don't fear the charachters will change almost every episode.
There might be a few recurring characters.

Episode 2 http://www.nadcartoons.com/cartoons/eee/2.htm
Theres alittle more animation in this one, and it's a better look at what the series will be like.

Possible Intro, Outro, and episode 3 character designs http://denvish.net/ulf/1149362389_eee3.php
Intro song by MC Pants, and Outro song is an original song by myself.
Yes the outro is inspired by Matt Wilson, Big Whoop, wanna fight about it?

Suggestions?
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Postby Nar on Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:06 pm

Um...wow.
The first two were made up completely of non-sequiturs. The third...was absolutely nothing. Boring, unfunny, there's no plots...I don't know, I'm at a complete loss here.
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Postby Meebs on Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:26 pm

Nar wrote:Um...wow.
The first two were made up completely of non-sequiturs. The third...was absolutely nothing. Boring, unfunny, there's no plots...I don't know, I'm at a complete loss here.


Hmm....wanna try reading posts?
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Postby Sir Lemming on Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:09 pm

Nothing to lose, I see.
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Postby fattymattk on Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:16 pm

This is kind of pointless. Your whole premise is that randomness is hilarious, and it might be if you have the intelligence of a 12 year old, but most people aren't going to get much from it. When randomness is funny, it's because it's unexpected, which means it has to be surrounded by nonrandomness. Pure randomness is just boring and stupid.
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Postby Meebs on Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:26 pm

fattymattk wrote:This is kind of pointless. Your whole premise is that randomness is hilarious, and it might be if you have the intelligence of a 12 year old, but most people aren't going to get much from it. When randomness is funny, it's because it's unexpected, which means it has to be surrounded by nonrandomness. Pure randomness is just boring and stupid.


Not if it's totally random. That's the challenge. I know what you mean that some random is not funny like when people are trying to be random and they will be like "My dog farted on the moon yesterday" that's not funny.

I'm working with a someone else on episode 3 and we are going to add dynamics like such:

G2: Fecies.
G1: But the internal diagetic implies entropy within a 10-dimentional universe.
G2: Are you discounting the validity of the space-time absolute? You can not deny our four-dimensional existence!
G1: That reminds me of Vietnamese Unicorns.
G2: True Dat'
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Postby Sir Lemming on Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:15 pm

If not for the trouble it must've taken for you to put that web site together, you'd seem like a fake account. I hate to say that, but I'm being totally honest. If you're serious about this series, you have a LOT of work to do.
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Postby Meebs on Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:34 pm

Sir Lemming wrote:If not for the trouble it must've taken for you to put that web site together, you'd seem like a fake account. I hate to say that, but I'm being totally honest. If you're serious about this series, you have a LOT of work to do.


No I'm pretty sure i registered so no, this is not a fake account.
That's a pretty cruel thing to say, thanks alot.

Well I came here because I was looking for some mature people that could actually give constructive criticism, like my original audience for this series who gave me advice about what I could fix over at NGCollabs. Unfortunately those people could not be found.
The people who actually like my series actually respect me and my work so telling me that you think I'm a fake account is a pretty fucking asshole'ish thing to do.

You think the first episode of Bonus Stage was perfect?
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Postby fattymattk on Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:02 pm

Meebs wrote:
Sir Lemming wrote:If not for the trouble it must've taken for you to put that web site together, you'd seem like a fake account. I hate to say that, but I'm being totally honest. If you're serious about this series, you have a LOT of work to do.


No I'm pretty sure i registered so no, this is not a fake account.
That's a pretty cruel thing to say, thanks alot.

Well I came here because I was looking for some mature people that could actually give constructive criticism, like my original audience for this series who gave me advice about what I could fix over at NGCollabs. Unfortunately those people could not be found.
The people who actually like my series actually respect me and my work so telling me that you think I'm a fake account is a pretty fucking asshole'ish thing to do.

You think the first episode of Bonus Stage was perfect?


I'm giving you constructive criticism: I think you should ditch the whole random idea. You don't have to, but I personally don't like the idea, and don't suspect that many will. If you have reason to believe that there are people out there who will enjoy this, then by all means, go ahead. But really, there's not much good about this. It's like taking your average silly cartoon and taking away all traces of plot, character, emotion, and logic. You're not creating anything better or even good by taking that stuff away, so why would you? If the humour was outstanding enough to make up for all that other absent stuff, then sure, but unfortunately it isn't. Developing likeable characters, telling good stories, making us think and feel... that's only going to add to the comedy, not take anything away from it, so you really have no reason not to include stuff like that.

If you don't see this as constructive criticism, then sorry. You have no reason to be insulted if you actually believe what you have created is good. The first episode of BS wasn't perfect, but it was good. It was funny. Your cartoon isn't.

But like I said, if you have evidence that enough people will enjoy this series to make the effort that goes into producing it worth it, then continue, by all means. My opinion doesn't mean anything when all is said and done.
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Postby Sir Lemming on Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:29 pm

Meebs wrote:
Sir Lemming wrote:If not for the trouble it must've taken for you to put that web site together, you'd seem like a fake account. I hate to say that, but I'm being totally honest. If you're serious about this series, you have a LOT of work to do.


No I'm pretty sure i registered so no, this is not a fake account.
That's a pretty cruel thing to say, thanks alot.

The fact that you registered doesn't prove that it's not a fake account... I'm not challenging the idea, but just FYI.


I'm sorry if my statement seemed like an attack, but it's really what I've been thinking. You come on here and post a series where each episode is so short that there's barely anything to constructively criticize about it, and then instantly start mouthing off at people, and it really seems like it could be a hoax. It seems like you've come here to get on people's nerves, not to be a part of the community. That's usually the telltale sign of a fake account.

Also, your dialogue for episode 3 is so incredibly similar to the dialogue for the first episodes that it really does seem like you're joking about it. All the talk about collaboration and "adding dynamics" and stuff seems to have had no effect on it whatsoever.

You're demanding too much from us right off the bat. "Respect" doesn't mean we have to like your work or even pretend to like it. If you're not prepared to withstand some light insults to your series (and they were quite light), you shouldn't have bothered posting it.


So do I have anything good to say about this cartoon? I guess. The art is decent (better than most beginner Flash stuff) and a few of the lines had comedic potential. But overall it's literally just people standing still and talking. I don't know how to constructively critique something like that. I think fattymattk did all the constructive criticism that could possibly be done at this point.

Well here's a little. Don't call it a series. Don't call them episodes. The most they can possibly be called is "shorts". You're making people expect a lot more.
Last edited by Sir Lemming on Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nar on Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:37 am

Meebs wrote:You think the first episode of Bonus Stage was perfect?

No, it was not perfect. But it wasn't five lines that had nothing to do with each other, either.
Randomness and non-sequiturs are not funny when they're alone like that. They're just stupid and a poor excuse for trying to write or be humorous. I mean, I'm looking at the...um..."script" for your third episode and frankly, that's not writing. You could have just searched 5 different things on Google, clicked a page, and copied down the first sentence you saw. Writing involves a plot. Events happen, characters are developed, and they do more than just look at each other saying...this stuff.
Just because you have Flash and a microphone doesn't mean you can make a quality cartoon. If that's what you're seriously trying to do, I'd say you've got a lot of work ahead of you.
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Fetus

Postby Meebs on Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:15 pm

I think you should ditch the whole random idea. You don't have to, but I personally don't like the idea, and don't suspect that many will. If you have reason to believe that there are people out there who will enjoy this, then by all means, go ahead. But really, there's not much good about this.

Episode 2 scored a 3.12 on newgrounds.
You're not creating anything better or even good by taking that stuff away, so why would you? If the humour was outstanding enough to make up for all that other absent stuff, then sure, but unfortunately it isn't. Developing likeable characters, telling good stories, making us think and feel... that's only going to add to the comedy, not take anything away from it, so you really have no reason not to include stuff like that.
If you don't see this as constructive criticism, then sorry.

Yes I realize that, THAT is good criticism. Not surprisingly, that was the criticism for the first episode, that I changed subjects to quickly.
I mended that a little bit in the second episode. You might not realize it but I never really changed the subject in episode two that much, pretty much everything spawned off of what the previous charachter had said.
I'm sorry if my statement seemed like an attack, but it's really what I've been thinking. You come on here and post a series where each episode is so short that there's barely anything to constructively criticize about it, and then instantly start mouthing off at people, and it really seems like it could be a hoax. It seems like you've come here to get on people's nerves, not to be a part of the community. That's usually the telltale sign of a fake account.

When did I mouth off? And I don't really see how I am trying to get on people's nerves when all I did was ask for some suggestions on the series only to be told that it is bad.
So do I have anything good to say about this cartoon? I guess. The art is decent (better than most beginner Flash stuff) and a few of the lines had comedic potential. But overall it's literally just people standing still and talking.

I'm not a beginner at flash...
And the original idea for the miniseries (Oh btw, it was meant to be a miniseries, something I did when I was bored or needed some flash to work on) was called "Boring Conversations" and it was just going to be people talking about boring stuff like how they used detergent on their clothes, but the characters were going to be really enthusiastic and crazy.
And for the record, I never said that those lines above was the script. That's like 1/9 th of the script, and some lines aren't even in it.

It's like taking your average silly cartoon and taking away all traces of plot, character, emotion, and logic.

Some of my favorite cartoons are Ed Atlin's non space tree stuff, especially "Homework is Fun",
the "an" series (An Example, a Hat etc.),
and the cop one...I forget what it was called...

And those don't have plot or logic. Doesn't mean they aren't amazingly awesome cartoons.
Not saying E3 #1 and #2 are awesome, but the idea has the potential to be.
I'd say wait untill I finish Episode 3 before continuing to devour my miniseries.
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Re: Fetus

Postby Sir Lemming on Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:05 pm

First of all, I like that you're actually conversing with us instead of abandoning all hope and going out in a blaze of glory.

Meebs wrote:When did I mouth off?

"Hmm... wanna try reading posts?"

I found that fairly rude. Particularly for a second-post-ever. Just getting off on the wrong foot...

Meebs wrote:I'm not a beginner at flash...

Well just... whatever, it was supposed to be a compliment. I didn't want to say it was better than most "amateur" Flash because it's not, since technically almost every Flash toon still has amateur status and there are some REALLY good ones. Although from a strict percentage standpoint, that statement probably would've been safe.

Meebs wrote:I'd say wait untill I finish Episode 3 before continuing to devour my miniseries.

Alright... But you did ask for opinions about the pre-episode 3 stuff, so that's what we're going by.
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Re: Fetus

Postby fattymattk on Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:43 pm

Meebs wrote:
It's like taking your average silly cartoon and taking away all traces of plot, character, emotion, and logic.

Some of my favorite cartoons are Ed Atlin's non space tree stuff, especially "Homework is Fun",
the "an" series (An Example, a Hat etc.),
and the cop one...I forget what it was called...

And those don't have plot or logic. Doesn't mean they aren't amazingly awesome cartoons.


I like those too, and although they aren't plot heavy or anything, there still is something to follow. "Homework is Fun" is about a boot that comes into a girl's room and kicks her in the face for not believing that homework can potentially be fun. There's a very simple story line to follow. Something to make the each line follow somewhat logically from the last. And yeah, the "A(n)..." series is pretty random, but not 100% completely random. There's some substance there. There's jokes that make sense. And yeah, it does digress a lot, but not after every single line of dialog. It gives the audiences enough time to settle on an enjoy an idea before suddenly switching to another.
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Postby Matt Wilson on Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:10 am

Characters and story are more important than just being retarded. If the viewer has no attachment to them then they will not stick around for more episodes and your series will be a forgotten nothing. You will enjoy the 3.0 ratings now, and regret that you ever made the series a year later.
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Postby Nukiad on Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:25 am

*GASPO*

HE'S ALIVE! :o
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Postby Meebs on Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:46 am

Matt Wilson wrote:Characters and story are more important than just being retarded. If the viewer has no attachment to them then they will not stick around for more episodes and your series will be a forgotten nothing. You will enjoy the 3.0 ratings now, and regret that you ever made the series a year later.


Good insight, probably why I decided this to be a miniseries.
Ang good points everyone, I'm trying to rework it a little bit already.
Now that I am at keentoons I guess I should put my favorite quotes:
Only a dumb drunk baby with no legs would be afraid of that.


Homework is fun!
No it isn't.
Yes it is you fuckin bitch

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Postby Nar on Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:15 am

Meebs wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:Characters and story are more important than just being retarded. If the viewer has no attachment to them then they will not stick around for more episodes and your series will be a forgotten nothing. You will enjoy the 3.0 ratings now, and regret that you ever made the series a year later.


Good insight, probably why I decided this to be a miniseries.
Ang good points everyone, I'm trying to rework it a little bit already.

Yes, now that Mr. Wilson got involved, your view has changed. You obviously have some knowledge in making cartoons, but this is not how to utilize it and you still have a way to go. And if you keep it up, you will end up making something fairly good, I'm sure. But trust me, this isn't it. I know this; I've walked the road before.
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Postby Meebs on Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:46 am

Yes, now that Mr. Wilson got involved, your view has changed.

No it was mainly because I had to leave my house and I had to post real quick. Although the great lord himself's opinion does weigh a little more to me.
You obviously have some knowledge in making cartoons, but this is not how to utilize it and you still have a way to go. And if you keep it up, you will end up making something fairly good, I'm sure. But trust me, this isn't it. I know this; I've walked the road before.

Well thanks, I respect that.
Although I'm still going to continue with this miniseries for a few episodes and see how it turns out.

on another note, one bit of criticism I recieved here and at NGC which I agree with is that there was not much animation (Which I said I was going to work on in my original post)
I'm trying to pick between the style I used in the first 2 (3?) episodes, which looks nice but isn't a joy to frame by frame, or a style like this:
Image
Advice?
Now that I am at keentoons I guess I should put my favorite quotes:
Only a dumb drunk baby with no legs would be afraid of that.


Homework is fun!
No it isn't.
Yes it is you fuckin bitch

Image
Image
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Postby Nar on Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:59 pm

The designs are okay. They look a little funky though, possibly because they're too exaggerated. Like the first guy's...twisty torso. Other people have done it but it still looks a little off for some reason. The second guy looks alright, but it looks like he gets bigger/wider toward the bottom, as if you were looking up at him from a low camera angle.
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Postby Meebs on Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:07 pm

That's just my style really.
You gotta get used to it I guess.
Now that I am at keentoons I guess I should put my favorite quotes:
Only a dumb drunk baby with no legs would be afraid of that.


Homework is fun!
No it isn't.
Yes it is you fuckin bitch

Image
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Postby ed atlin on Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:11 pm

Shoey the Fucking Shoe is like her guardian angel, it's the most logical plot-filled thing ever.
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Postby Meebs on Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:18 pm

ed atlin wrote:Shoey the Fucking Shoe is like her guardian angel, it's the most logical plot-filled thing ever.

lol why is this thread attracting my idols.
I wasn't really calling Homework is fun plotless, but like...An Example..those are retarded and awesome and they couldn't be better.
Well I mean everything has a plot but.......fetus.

BTW ed are you going to continue WaterMelon Head?
Now that I am at keentoons I guess I should put my favorite quotes:
Only a dumb drunk baby with no legs would be afraid of that.


Homework is fun!
No it isn't.
Yes it is you fuckin bitch

Image
Image
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Re: New Series. Suggestions?

Postby ghostmail on Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:55 pm

Meebs wrote:I have a new series called "The Epic Expedition for Empenadas".
It's basically just a series as random as I could make it.

So far the episodes don't have that much animation to them, I plan to gradually increase the amount of frame by frame i put into it.
(Ep 3 will have more animation)

Episode 1: http://www.nadcartoons.com/cartoons/eee/1.htm
Don't like it that much, It was just a pilot to give people an idea of the series.
I realize that one of the charachters is similar to ingus, but don't fear the charachters will change almost every episode.
There might be a few recurring characters.

Episode 2 http://www.nadcartoons.com/cartoons/eee/2.htm
Theres alittle more animation in this one, and it's a better look at what the series will be like.

Possible Intro, Outro, and episode 3 character designs http://denvish.net/ulf/1149362389_eee3.php
Intro song by MC Pants, and Outro song is an original song by myself.
Yes the outro is inspired by Matt Wilson, Big Whoop, wanna fight about it?

Suggestions?

I would comeback and watch new one's. Oh, funny.
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