Second Animation Complete - Peter Godly: Neighboring Nations

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Second Animation Complete - Peter Godly: Neighboring Nations

Postby petergodly on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:04 am

I showed my first animation here awhile ago, and here's the second chapter:

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/294284

Any crits/comments are appreciated. I worked quite a bit on improving the visuals, animation, and story, so hopefully it's better than the original.
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Postby Wonchop on Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:41 am

Hehe. Pretty nice. Abstinence rocks.
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Postby Nar on Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:16 pm

It was alright. Visually, it looks great, there's really no problem there, except that some animations, such as Peter punching the man in the bathroom did look a little odd to me. One thing that did bother me though was that no one really had any expressions; they're faces never really showed their mood at any point, and I think that could have made certain parts much better, like when the kid was looking out the car window with the "help" sign. And a lot of the voices kind of ran together. Overall though, it was above average.
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Postby Sir Lemming on Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:22 am

Nothing wrong with the production values, that's for sure. It does look a bit "rigid" overall, as if any attempt at flexibility would make things start to crack. On the other hand, the writing, while refreshingly coherent, is pretty bland overall. So far the show is really more impressive than entertaining.

I'm also thinking there'll have to be some other Christians in this show who are more realistic about their beliefs than Peter Godly is. Not because of fairness, but just because I don't see enough potential in the antics of some wacky guy without a little more balance to round things out. He probably won't bother to listen to atheists' opinions much, so who is he going to interact with? It can't stay as one-sided as it has been -- in relation to Peter, I mean. He did interact with people in this episode, but he wasn't actually "getting" anything from them. He was just giving.
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Postby ComicDomination on Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:05 pm

Sir Lemming wrote:Nothing wrong with the production values, that's for sure. It does look a bit "rigid" overall, as if any attempt at flexibility would make things start to crack. On the other hand, the writing, while refreshingly coherent, is pretty bland overall. So far the show is really more impressive than entertaining.

I'm also thinking there'll have to be some other Christians in this show who are more realistic about their beliefs than Peter Godly is. Not because of fairness, but just because I don't see enough potential in the antics of some wacky guy without a little more balance to round things out. He probably won't bother to listen to atheists' opinions much, so who is he going to interact with? It can't stay as one-sided as it has been -- in relation to Peter, I mean. He did interact with people in this episode, but he wasn't actually "getting" anything from them. He was just giving.


I have to agree with this. Seeing the first one when your brought it on the forums a long time back and then seeing this one, I can honestly say that while it looks great in most points, the story and characters and interactions definately need some work. I think Moral Orel is something you might want to look at, I dunno. Just keep working hard and I bet you'll accomplish a great series when 3 comes out.
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Postby petergodly on Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:17 pm

Thanks for the crits!

I watch a fair amount of animation, and I want to break a lot of standards. Most animation only has one camera, and all of the characters are on a 2 dimensional stage, but I tried to "film" it closer to a TV Drama series with multiple cameras and POV shots. A part of this process was cutting the audio really tight in some places so that people interrupt each other, which is common on live action material. But I may have cut a bit too tight in some places.

Luke is intended to be Peter's balance, as he is religious but rejects his father's extremism. I don't think Peter will ever "grow" or "change"; he affects his environment in unpleasant ways without realizing it. But as I develop Luke, I hope to make him into a sympathetic character - the "voice of reason".
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Postby Sir Lemming on Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:30 am

ComicDomination wrote:I think Moral Orel is something you might want to look at, I dunno.

While I too think of Moral Orel when I watch Peter Godly now, I tend more to say that's an example of what he should try to avoid. But then again, I've only really seen one episode, so I guess I should watch what I say. But it looks to me so far like it's sort of a one-joke show, even though it's hardly the worst thing on television.
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Postby Jon Hanson on Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:44 pm

petergodly wrote:Thanks for the crits!

I watch a fair amount of animation, and I want to break a lot of standards. Most animation only has one camera, and all of the characters are on a 2 dimensional stage, but I tried to "film" it closer to a TV Drama series with multiple cameras and POV shots. A part of this process was cutting the audio really tight in some places so that people interrupt each other, which is common on live action material. But I may have cut a bit too tight in some places.

Luke is intended to be Peter's balance, as he is religious but rejects his father's extremism. I don't think Peter will ever "grow" or "change"; he affects his environment in unpleasant ways without realizing it. But as I develop Luke, I hope to make him into a sympathetic character - the "voice of reason".
The real question is will he be a sympathetic moderate Christian, or a symapthetic atheist. A lot of shows have a crazy Christian and then a level headed atheist who is always right in the show's world. The Simpsons is a good example of a show with no real sane Christians these days, although back when the show was better it was more even-handed.
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Postby Chrono on Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:27 pm

The real question is will he be a sympathetic moderate Christian, or a symapthetic atheist. A lot of shows have a crazy Christian and then a level headed atheist who is always right in the show's world. The Simpsons is a good example of a show with no real sane Christians these days, although back when the show was better it was more even-handed.


Do you know anyone in the show who is level-headed? I don't remember there ever being an atheist in the show. Lisa is probably the closest you'd get.
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Postby Brandon Clark on Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:50 am

It was a funny flash. I liked when he pulled out the sizzors at the beginning. And when he imanged the cross shaped pool.

The reviews however are a goldmine. Look at this:

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cause you are a witch =|
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peter vs. orel

Postby w-mans on Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:20 pm

I thought it was okay, but seems very similar to Moral Orel (in what it's trying to accomplish). Frankly, I think Orel has more going on. He's a likable character, first of all. There seems to be no redeeming qualities in Peter. Maybe if we got to see something a little more humbling in him, the series would have legs. Right now, it seems that it is all heavy-handed bible-thumper hating, instead of what Moral Orel is, an intelligent take on the same idea--Fundamentalist Christians misinterprating the Bible.

Actually, now that I think about it, Godly isn't misinterpreting...he's just taking things too literally. Orel does this, also, be he has a childish innocence and enthusiasm about it. Orel never wants to hurt people, even though he does inadverdently. Peter Godly is psycho and unlikable.
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Re: peter vs. orel

Postby Sir Lemming on Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:10 pm

w-mans wrote:Actually, now that I think about it, Godly isn't misinterpreting...he's just taking things too literally. Orel does this, also, be he has a childish innocence and enthusiasm about it. Orel never wants to hurt people, even though he does inadverdently. Peter Godly is psycho and unlikable.

I think this is why South Park manages to be a very fun, non-mean-spirited show, despite some of the sick stuff that goes on. They're kids. Especially Cartman, I mean, if he were an adult he'd really just be a completely despicable, unlikeable character. A lot of shows that try to be "the next South Park" really only have the same level of controversy, not the same type of dynamic. And the result is something that just makes you kind of depressed.
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Postby w-mans on Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:08 pm

I agree with that, except I think Moral Orel seems even less mean-spirited than South Park. With South Park I see them trying to shock for the sake of shock. Orel is more subtle. It's not WHAT Orel is doing, it's HOW he got there. Example: WHY is he smoking crack? Because the local Reverend said "Help The Poor" and his Dad said "Use anything you buy and don't waste it."
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Postby petergodly on Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:51 am

I released the first episode of Peter Godly 6 months prior to Moral Orel's debut, so I never included that show as an inspiration, or as a reference. The second episode was almost entirely complete prior to Moral's debut in December.

I think that Peter's son, Luke, will be a good sympathetic character. I've introduced him for this episode, but the third episode features him a lot more.

What I like about Peter is the way I write his dialogue, and specifically, his responses. Often he doesn't hear what people are actually telling him, while at other times he completely ignores their questions. Writing is sometimes about what's not said.
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Postby w-mans on Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:31 am

Yeah, it didn't seem like either show inspired the other one at all. They're both pretty different. Similar, only in theme. I wasn't suggesting any show ripped anyone off.

It doesn't seem like Peter keeps things to himself much, though. He's pretty outspoken.

I think the son is okay as an innocent, but unfortunately Godly is the main character and needs to be more likeable in order to care about his adventures. Of course if you shifted and made the show about the son of a psycho fundamentalist, then I think that would be an original take. Also we'd have a main character that we would like and be on his side.

Of course, maybe your objective is just to hate the main character and not make him relatable at all. If so, that's working. It just seems you'd get more milage out of the cartoon if we cared more, rather than just took the side of the creator of the show who is spotlighting a moron.
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Postby Sir Lemming on Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:43 pm

In other words, don't be pitching a half-hour pilot any time soon unless you severely re-tool the show. I think these will have to remain very short.
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Postby petergodly on Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:09 am

One of my favorite TV sitcoms is a British series called "Black Adder". The first series "Black Adder I" sucks, but Black Adder II, III, and IV are really awesome.

The main character is a complete asshole to everyone around him, and is an unkind, manipulative bastard. I'm not sure why the series works, but it does.

I think negative characters can work as primary characters, but it is a challenge to ensure that the character is somehow interesting, unique, or otherwise engaging.

Oh well - Peter Godly is my first real attempt at an independant series, and I have no real asperations for it. I am working on a script for a 22 minute pilot with a completely different concept, but I'm trying to get my quality high and consistant enough so that I can produce something that could actually, potentially, see television distribution. I figured the best way to learn how to do that was by just creating a short series.
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Postby w-mans on Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:15 pm

Yes, and a good attempt. I was hoping all this would come off as constructive criticism.

I feel Black Adder works because he is an underdog. Also he has wit. Yes, he's an asshole, but a lovable one.

I don't think Godly is a lost cause. I was just trying to point out some ways it could be better. Hope this wasn't discouraging.
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Postby Sir Lemming on Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:44 am

Blackadder is a really funny guy, and regardless of his overall personality/actions, I think he's easy to relate to. He feels like he's surrounded by idiots, as we all do sometimes. That's where we get some connection to him even though we're really different from him.
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