Space Tree is, by far, the cream of KeenToons...

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Postby Friz on Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:32 am

Space Tree Lip Sync: B
Bonus Stage Lip Sync: D

I worked out the other day that the Bonus Stage lip-sync loop is the word "Bafafism" repeated over and over. If you watch an episode without sound, each of the characters just say "Bafafism" over and over and over.
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Postby Nar on Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:23 pm

I honestly don't see what's up with all the Bonus Stage lovin' going on around here. Space Tree is clearly superior, and while this is only my opinion, the best I can do is state my opinion in a manner that clearly outlines my criteria for a good web cartoon (which I believe Space Tree to be) and a mediocre one (Bonus Stage).

You probably think I'm gonna disagree with you. I'm not. While I don't think Bonus Stage is mediocre, I do think Space Tree has more of a TV-cartoon sense to it and Bonus Stage really has a webtoon sense. There are two reasons why people like Bonus Stage: 1) Most of the people here are from the old High Score/Bonus Stage forums, and 2) Bonus Stage appeals more towards the ineternet-savy crowd what with all its pop-culture references and whatnot. It has things that you would never see in a cartoon on TV because, due to copyrights and things like that, well, they really can't. Space tree is more like that. Its humor is based entirely on Atlin's jokes, nothing that was built up for him.
I have to disagree on voice acting however. Not that Ed's bad at acting, don't get me wrong, but you can tell all the characters are voiced by him. Bonus Stage, you can occasionally tell they're the same, but not often. Heck, Matt even tricked my brother into thinking that Joel and Phil were two real people that Matt knew because their voices are fairly different. But that may not be saying much, knowing my brother's observancy.
The only reason the animation deserves a B is because they have to be able to make these within a week. I know Matt can animate, and do it extremely well, and I'm sure Ed Atlin can too.
So yeah, I'm not saying, I think Bonus Stage is a bad cartoon. I mean, I really like it. It's one of my favorite cartoons, including ones on TV. And reading some of Matt Wilson's interviews or forum posts, things like that, he knows what goes into a cartoon to make it good; he just doesn't have enough time to do it all within a week, by himself. I just think that on these forums Space Tree and Robotbox & Cactus are getting lost in the shadows a bit because the majority of the people here are Bonus Stage fans and care only about that cartoon.
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Postby Shayne_S on Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:24 pm

i like both Space Tree and Bonus Stage.
...
And Robotbox and Cactus.
And and and.

When any of them updates it gives me a warm, squishy feeling. Although i think the Bonus Stage website needs a little more consistent navigation. Other than that they all get the prize of a special place in my heart/face.
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Postby Church on Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:35 pm

I don't think we need to argue about which is best, they can all co-exist. I mean, it's not like the world of weekly webtoons is very competitive. Or that webtoons are so long that we have to choose which we want to watch.
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Postby Dunlavy on Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:28 pm

Church wrote:I don't think we need to argue about which is best, they can all co-exist. I mean, it's not like the world of weekly webtoons is very competitive. Or that webtoons are so long that we have to choose which we want to watch.

Excellent point, but criticism and ranking systems establishes competition in an environment that is otherwise devoid of it. If Capitalism taught me anything, it is that competition and the desire to be on top (even if in this case the currency is popularity) makes better products (web comics) and happier consumers (us).

I criticize what I see fit to criticize. I praise what I see fit for praise.
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Postby Church on Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:38 pm

Criticizm is good, but arguments aren't. I was just saying that to prevent this from turning itno a flame war. In the end personal preferences and criticisms are good, but online they can lead to flames that do nothing but hurt.
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Postby Dunlavy on Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:41 pm

Actually, a good flamefest or two makes a community bustle. People love drama.
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Postby Church on Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:56 pm

Dunlavy wrote:Actually, a good flamefest or two makes a community bustle. People love drama.
Well, it's always better when the drama is targeted against one person. I mean, the civil war sucked because it divided the country, and the same thing goes about the 2004 election. Now, World War II was awesome because we all hated Hitler, and making fun of Carrot top is funny for the same reason.
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Postby The K on Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:13 pm

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Postby Matt Wilson on Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:12 am

Dunlavy wrote:Bonus Stage is overrated. The crown of KeenToons belongs to Space Tree.

Space Tree is better than Bonus Stage, but ultimately the world will value your opinion the same way it values any Sinfest fan's opinion.
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Postby Church on Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:32 am

Matt Wilson wrote:
Dunlavy wrote:Bonus Stage is overrated. The crown of KeenToons belongs to Space Tree.

Space Tree is better than Bonus Stage, but ultimately the world will value your opinion the same way it values any Sinfest fan's opinion.
Matt shows us he can be humble and lay down the smack at the same time.
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Postby Nar on Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:44 pm

Matt Wilson wrote:Space Tree is better than Bonus Stage, but ultimately the world will value your opinion the same way it values any Sinfest fan's opinion.

If somebody's really obsessed with something, they won't value ANYbody's opinion if it differs from theirs. Which is why you can't have opinions on forums.
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Postby communist trees on Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:22 pm

Matt Wilson wrote:
Dunlavy wrote:Bonus Stage is overrated. The crown of KeenToons belongs to Space Tree.

Space Tree is better than Bonus Stage, but ultimately the world will value your opinion the same way it values any Sinfest fan's opinion.


Ouch.
Oh no! My avatar got eaten... *sigh* R.I.P., avatar...
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Postby OnlyAlienEver on Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:34 pm

Out of all the toons on KeenTOONS, Space Tree and Robotbox and Cactus will always be the best for me. I think Danny Washington is downright horrible, and while Bonus Stage obviously has the biggest following, I just never liked it. It's not horrible or anything. Horrible would be stuff like Shrek Sketches. I was just never a big follower of the kind of humor that Bonus Stage delivers.

One problem I see on these forums is that Bonus Stage discussion usually just seems to take over every topic. Just take this topic for instance. Granted, posters who prefer Bonus Stage over the other cartoons will slip the cartoon into a conversation. I just wish we can even out of all the cartoon discussion (which update anyway, right, Danny Washington?), so it would be 1/3 discussion for each cartoon rather than like 2/3 discussion for Bonus Stage and 1/3 for the other toons.

Hopefully, that will happen soon, as more KeenTOONS viewers seem to find interest in Space Tree and Robotbox and Cactus as well.
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Postby bunnyThor on Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:59 pm

communist trees wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:
Dunlavy wrote:Bonus Stage is overrated. The crown of KeenToons belongs to Space Tree.

Space Tree is better than Bonus Stage, but ultimately the world will value your opinion the same way it values any Sinfest fan's opinion.


Ouch.


Hey. When he's right, he's right.
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Postby PawelMaji on Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:43 am

Bonusstage is only really funny when get at least half of the references.
Space Tree has referential jokes, but not as many.

There are actually less jokes in ST than in BS. The thing I like about ST is that it gives me time to laugh and enjoy the show. If i had to make a comparison, Space Tree's humor is like a rollercoster ride while BonusStage's is like getting crammed in a cardboard box and thrown off from the top of a rocky hill. I still watch BS though, becuase there's not quite like getting crammed in a cardboard box and thrown off from the top of a rocky hill.
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Postby 1969 on Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:35 pm

PawelMaji wrote:I still watch BS though, becuase there's not quite like getting crammed in a cardboard box and thrown off from the top of a rocky hill.



Best analogy, ever.
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Postby Nar on Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:37 pm

PawelMaji wrote:I still watch BS though, becuase there's not quite like getting crammed in a cardboard box and thrown off from the top of a rocky hill.

I wish I could say I don't know what that's like...
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Postby The K on Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:32 pm

PawelMaji wrote:There are actually less jokes in ST than in BS.


Or fewer jokes.
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Postby bunnyThor on Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:53 pm

The K wrote:
PawelMaji wrote:There are actually less jokes in ST than in BS.


Or fewer jokes.


I bestow unto you the Grammar Nazi Seal of Approval.

You may now kiss the bride.
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Postby Nar on Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:11 pm

Aw...I wanna learn to talk good too!

It's a joke...
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Postby Dunlavy on Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Matt Wilson wrote:
Dunlavy wrote:Bonus Stage is overrated. The crown of KeenToons belongs to Space Tree.

Space Tree is better than Bonus Stage, but ultimately the world will value your opinion the same way it values any Sinfest fan's opinion.


To be honest, I don't understand this Sinfest reference. Are you insinuating that my opinion is null because I show preference to Sinfest via my avatar? Matt, I thought you'd bring more to this thread. But, then again, after seeing your previous contributions to threads that CRITICIZE your work (non-fan boy threads) or otherwise inconvenience you, I can see that my expectations in you were misplaced.

Futhermore, you almost seem to admit that you are coasting on a wave of hype in that quote. At least, that's how I read it.

One problem I see on these forums is that Bonus Stage discussion usually just seems to take over every topic. Just take this topic for instance. Granted, posters who prefer Bonus Stage over the other cartoons will slip the cartoon into a conversation. I just wish we can even out of all the cartoon discussion (which update anyway, right, Danny Washington?), so it would be 1/3 discussion for each cartoon rather than like 2/3 discussion for Bonus Stage and 1/3 for the other toons.


What this thread boils down to is the ole' "does popularity imply quality" debate. Yes, Bonus Stage here does have the biggest following... of high school kids. Yet, from what I'm able to gather so far, Space Tree captures more of the college aged demographic. Of course, I'm basing this off of almost nothing but loose observation...

I tend to hate most things that are popular, but not because of their popularity. For some reason, DESPITE adolescent claims that popularity does imply quality, I find that most popular ticket items nowadays are the poster children for cash cows, non-talent, and fanboyisms. Of course, I am not implying Bonus Stage is one of these ticket items, but I urge you to note that Bonus Stage follows a very accessible formula (20-somethings / pop-culture adventures in malls, etc.) and leaves very little to innovation, whereas Space Tree is quite the opposite.

I've SEEN* Bonus Stage on Nickelodeon. I've SEEN* Space Tree on Adult Swim. Which one rocks and which one sucks?

Damnit, I'm coming across as hostile and polarizing. Nevermind me. I'm just crazy that Bonus Stage seems to be stealing Space Tree's thunder.

Josh R. Dunlavy
Space Tree Fan

*Not really. It's a metaphor. I think
Last edited by Dunlavy on Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dunlavy on Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:28 pm

bunnyThor wrote:
communist trees wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:
Dunlavy wrote:Bonus Stage is overrated. The crown of KeenToons belongs to Space Tree.

Space Tree is better than Bonus Stage, but ultimately the world will value your opinion the same way it values any Sinfest fan's opinion.


Ouch.


Hey. When he's right, he's right.


Wipe your lips, fanboy. You've been kissing too much ass.
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Postby Church on Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:40 pm

Dunlavy wrote:(20-somethings / pop-culture adventures in malls, etc.)
Wait, which episode of Bonus stage took place in a mall?
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Postby Dunlavy on Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:43 pm

That one where people kept disappearing and dude's mom was playing an arcade game. They "brought the whole neighborhood" to the shopping chain or whatever it was called. Maybe it wasn't a mall, but a grocery store... but there were arcades and crap so it looked like a mall.
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