Little Black Dress

The ongoing story of Chelsea Chattan, a witch, who after a three year absence, returns to her hometown only to find out that things are not always what they seem.

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Little Black Dress

Postby Jamie on Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:22 pm

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Chelsea needed one. Just getting back into the swing of things. Since I had a lot of time off, I of course got sick, :x so I'll be plugging away at COTC for the next few days.

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Postby Tangent on Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:18 pm

Ick! I hope you're feeling better, Jamie. I think it was one of those computer bugs. I caught it too. Normally I can drown colds with lots of water, but this one refused to die a normal death and actually made me sick. *sigh* Still not 100% recovered (probably 60% recovered).

Take care, Jamie.
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Postby Jamie on Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:04 pm

Since what I am about to post is kind of a secret, it will be safe to post to this forum. :wink: :lol:

http://www.lulu.com/browse/book_view.php?fCID=622807#

:D

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Postby Silver Adept on Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:35 am

...except that it doesn't actually show up, only saying "Item not available."

Considering who it's from, however, I've got a sneaky suspicion I know what this is...
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Postby Jamie on Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:15 am

Silver Adept wrote:...except that it doesn't actually show up, only saying "Item not available."

Considering who it's from, however, I've got a sneaky suspicion I know what this is...


darn.

Here's an image.

Image

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Postby Silver Adept on Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:58 pm

Ah-ha! Salmon for all those who guessed correctly!

(Assuming any of them actually notice such a tasty morsel around.)
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Postby ShardZ on Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:50 pm

Neat! Congratulations! :D

Some aspiring professionals seem to eschew the self-publishing route, thinking it makes them seem less viable to the "big leagues," but I don't really see what's wrong with getting your stuff out there any way you can. (I'm sure someone who's been through the corporate machine could enlighten me, but the fact remains that not everyone started out with Marvel or DC or [insert multi-generational mogul here]. *Shrug*) Aside from being under a funny-sounding name like "Lulu"... just kidding

Silver Adept wrote:(Assuming any of them actually notice such a tasty morsel around.)


Judging by the rising "View" count... yeah, not many.
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Postby Silver Adept on Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:17 am

ShardZ, some would say that the self-publishing print-on-demand services are the way of the future, especially for those who have a heavy web presence and audience, anyway. It won't get you into bookstores, but if you've got some things already published, you could show the work to the people who will get you in bookstores. Depending on the licensing agreements with Lulu, if someone hit it big in the mainstream, it could be pretty easy to stop the Lulu pressing, should Dark Horse or whomever insist on the exclusive publishing rights. It could be pretty hard.

Time will tell - it'll be definitely more interesting for people to pitch ideas to publishers when they have a book in hand to show how it will format and what could be done with it.
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Postby ShardZ on Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:38 am

Thanks for the response Silver Adept! That was pretty much what I was thinking, but reading threads like this one made me hesitant, where people with experience in creating and publishing comics express a preference for waiting for their project to be accepted by the big leagues first and foremost, as though self-publishing left a taint, or something. *Shrug*

Then again, the guy arguing for self-publishing seems to also have clear knowledge of how such processes work, so I guess it could all boil down to personal preference. Heck, for all I know a project being accepted could depend on how picky the publisher/editor/whoever is feeling that morning. :D
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Postby Jamie on Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:22 am

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Melpomene: The Chaos Orb: An online graphic novel by Jamie Robertson and Clint Hollingsworth
Sebo: A weekly webcomic about a girl and her cat.
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Postby Silver Adept on Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:50 am

ShardZ wrote:Thanks for the response Silver Adept! That was pretty much what I was thinking, but reading threads like this one made me hesitant, where people with experience in creating and publishing comics express a preference for waiting for their project to be accepted by the big leagues first and foremost, as though self-publishing left a taint, or something. *Shrug*


Well, part of that is the name that's often given to self-publishing companies - vanity press - that implies strongly that they'll print anything, regardless of quality, so long as the money is there for the print run. (Which is expensive, by the way. It also often requires thousands of issues or books to be printed up front. Those books then have to be sold by the author if they want to make any money off printing themselves.) Thus, people who self-publish are associated with the stigma that goes with it - no guarantees of quality, either in the work or in the book's construction, but vain enough to publish it anyway. I could say there's a similar disregard for quality in those comics who are accepted by the mainstream, especially if you want them to have reasonable female proportions.

But the prevailing opinion so far is that if you self-publish, it's automatically crap, regardless of what you can point to for quality checking, because it wasn't accepted and edited by a big name in the industry.

Lulu is doing a significantly good job of breaking out of that stereotype. The books that they produce are good quality, bound well, and look professionally done. (I have a few, since Ozy and Millie started publishing with them, and they're great. The Sebo book should be the same high quality.) Plus, as a print-on-demand service, they're not sticking the author with three thousand copies to try and sell up front - they're letting the author's fans decide whether to buy the book or not, and only printing up the number of books that the author's fans want. That could be three, three thousand, or three hundred thousand. (Although at that point, I suspect the mainstream publishers would be knocking on the artist's door, ready to offer a potential contract.)

So the Lulu model (which I dont' know that much more about than the two adjectives I've already used. Maybe there's some data that could be dug up on it) works well for those who want to self-publish. I have no idea what they do about profit per book, or what the authors get in profit per book, either, so I'd have to defer to Jamie on that. Either way, it looks like it's still an affordable enterprise - each of us can get a SEBO book for less than $10, if we want it, and Jamie doesn't have to worry about whether enough people are going to buy it because he's got thousands to sell.

ShardZ wrote:Heck, for all I know a project being accepted could depend on how picky the publisher/editor/whoever is feeling that morning. :D


You're not that far off the truth, actually. The slush pile that editors go through on any day is pretty big. Thus, authors are told that if they want to get a manuscript sold, they need to be able to sell the editor on the first page, possibly within the first paragraph. Depending on how the editor feels that day, they might not accept anything, or they might take one or two in for further review.
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Postby Tangent on Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:57 pm

I suppose it depends on what you're trying to do. With something like Sebo or the Alpha-Shade books or other such direct-to-audience products, then Lulu works. You don't need a traditional publisher.

But in the case of new fiction and the like, then the traditional publisher/bookstore method is more the approach you need. If I want to get The Trip (a novel I wrote last year) published and read, Lulu won't work. I'd sell perhaps three or four copies. A dozen at most. Other people wouldn't care. And I'd never make any money off of it. Traditional publication, while hard to get into, is my best bet.

Good luck with this, Jamie. :)
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Postby Marcos on Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:39 pm

Silver Adept wrote:Well, part of that is the name that's often given to self-publishing companies - vanity press - that implies strongly that they'll print anything, regardless of quality, so long as the money is there for the print run. (Which is expensive, by the way. It also often requires thousands of issues or books to be printed up front. Those books then have to be sold by the author if they want to make any money off printing themselves.) Thus, people who self-publish are associated with the stigma that goes with it - no guarantees of quality, either in the work or in the book's construction, but vain enough to publish it anyway. I could say there's a similar disregard for quality in those comics who are accepted by the mainstream, especially if you want them to have reasonable female proportions.


You're confusing two different business models here. On the one hand are print-on-demand and small-run presses, which will print anything you ask them to, and are upfront about it. On the other hand are the vanity presses, which pretend to be full-featured publishers with editors, careful selection of works, marketing departments, and the like -- but aren't.
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Postby Silver Adept on Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:21 am

Marcos wrote:You're confusing two different business models here. On the one hand are print-on-demand and small-run presses, which will print anything you ask them to, and are upfront about it. On the other hand are the vanity presses, which pretend to be full-featured publishers with editors, careful selection of works, marketing departments, and the like -- but aren't.


Ah. My mistake. What I was aiming at, though, was that while these distinctions are in place, it seems to me that the perception of print-on-demand and small-run is that they're being used for people to publish stuff that wouldn't otherwise make it in the big publishing company, and so the quality on it must be lower, in the writing or in the construction.

So I guess I associated that thought with the generally negative perception of vanity presses (which many of the same reasons, or so I thought). My mistake.

Tangent wrote: But in the case of new fiction and the like, then the traditional publisher/bookstore method is more the approach you need.


This is true - if you don't already have an audience, self-publishing isn't likely to work. If you do, however, and it's not Megatokyo-sized, then self-publishing might very well work out for you.
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