Is Nanase christian?

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Postby Tuitsuro on Tue May 03, 2005 11:36 am

Well, that happened under the more extreme forms of Christianity, like that of the Puritans. A lot of it was based off of superstitions like demonic posession, or practice of any type of magic. The assumption was that those practices were dangerous to the general public, and hence needed to be stopped immediately. But any sect of religion or of science has extremist viewpoints, so you really can`t blame it on any one. But then on the other hand, the bible does object to the use of magic practices, so it probably wouldn`t take to much to turn some into fanatics over the issue.
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Postby Beacon on Tue May 03, 2005 11:55 am

Free Radical wrote:You seem to be mixing a few different things in here and suggesting that they are the same. While the church did, as far as I know, consider pagans to be worshipping the devil, neither they nor the pagans themselves would have considered them to be witches. Witches, rather, were those who cast spells on people, and belief in this (and fear of a witch's power) predated Christianity. Interestingly, according to wikipedia, early Christianity actually tried to stop pagans from killing witches, and it was only later that they started killing them themselves:

Wikipedia wrote:Early Christianity attempted to put a stop to the pre-existing pagan practice of hunting and killing witches. When Charlemagne imposed Christianity upon the people of Saxony in 789, he proclaimed:
"If anyone, deceived by the Devil, shall believe, as is customary among pagans, that any man or woman is a night-witch, and eats men, and on that account burn that person to death... he shall be executed."


Also, modern Wicca, as far as I know, was only created in this century, and isn't actually a direct descendant of the older pagan religions, but rather a modern interpretation of them.


That's interesting, and I apologize for my misinformation.
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Postby Proto-blues on Tue May 03, 2005 12:45 pm

Maybe Nanase wants to go Gothic, and that's just where she's starting.............
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Postby Subjectmatter on Tue May 03, 2005 12:52 pm

Didn't recent documents, finally released to examined, from the vatican archives show that the spanish inquisition actually worked to protect such people - supposed witches - from the wordly courts that were less demanding when it came to requiring evidence.

The following is a translation from a swedish article on the subject:

[quote]The spanish inquisition is for most people synonymous to evil in a monk's habit: a dictatorial thought police, which using torture and witch-burnings persecuted persons with deviating opinions. A brand new rapport written by a group of acclaimed historians [i](can't think of a good translation for 'frik
'T is moonlight, summer moonlight,
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The silent light of midnight
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Postby Kizor on Tue May 03, 2005 1:51 pm

I can't say I know about the Vatican archives (and the figure of 59 sounds rather low to me - perhaps the inquisition's focus was elsewhere?), but I do remember reading that the institution mainly gave mild penalties.

And to speak frankly:
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Postby DeaExMachina on Tue May 03, 2005 4:26 pm

Judging from the way it was mentioned about how Susan & Nanase got their magic, and the way thing seem to happen in Shiveverse, their magic was probably a result of something accidental and had nothing to do with any agreements or pacts with anybody.

I've alway preferred the idea of them tapping into an energy unavailable to most people.
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Postby kalikajira on Tue May 03, 2005 7:08 pm

Actually, the Bible prohibits the calling up of spirits, necromancy, divination, and "enchanters". In fact, if you look at Acts, a known sorcerer became a Christian, and was not required to stop what he did.(Note: if anyone knows of a site with original Greek and Hebrew text, could you tell me? I've only got KJV to go on, and that's not always accurate.)

Technically, magic means "unknown power", and from seeing Nanases and Susans magic, I'd say that their power comes from within, not any spirits. It also has nothing to do with necromancy, divination, or "enchanting".

Finally, I do not consider Jack Chick to be a true Christian. He is a person full of hatred who hides behind a mask of fear and "Christian" beliefs, and sadly decieves many people about the true nature of Christs message. Much like the Puritans, anything he does not understand (which seems to be a lot) is deemed evil, and will be a target. The Puritans even thought joy and laughter were evil, which shows how far they strayed from the original Christian message.
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Postby Tuitsuro on Wed May 04, 2005 12:18 am

Well, she's no David Blaine. And that's probably a good thing.
No, scratch that. It's definately a good thing. Did I mention I dislike him?

Well, I`ll take this much from the forum conversation; Nanase probably has some sort of religion, or at least has had some religious dealings, but neither will their be any real proof of them, nor will the most likely EVER be mentioned in the comic.
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Postby Jeffery McLean on Wed May 04, 2005 12:25 am

kalikajira wrote:Finally, I do not consider Jack Chick to be a true Christian. He is a person full of hatred who hides behind a mask of fear and "Christian" beliefs


Such people are called Xtians... Taken from the comment about Xmass is taking christ out of christmass. In the same way Xians take christ out of christianity.

Jahadists... A religion of peace dose not advocate "Holy war" at the drop of a hat.

White light and bunny sliper Wiccans. Living in a black a white world ignoring the shades of gray.

And then there are people who call themselfs budists who pray for matereal wealth.

Every religion has em.
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Postby Kizor on Wed May 04, 2005 2:41 am

I call Jack Chick a Christian. An evangelical atheist's webpage mainly left me irritated, but did make some valid points. Chick seems to be a fervent believer and while I vastly disagree with him, I can't just write people off as 'not real Christians' because they see things differently. Okay, that's generous phrasing, but still.
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Postby Xiroth on Wed May 04, 2005 2:54 am

kalikajira wrote:Finally, I do not consider Jack Chick to be a true Christian. He is a person full of hatred who hides behind a mask of fear and "Christian" beliefs, and sadly decieves many people about the true nature of Christs message. Much like the Puritans, anything he does not understand (which seems to be a lot) is deemed evil, and will be a target. The Puritans even thought joy and laughter were evil, which shows how far they strayed from the original Christian message.

I'd never heard of Jack Chick before today. I stumbled across a link to a cartoon on his website. I found it highly amusing...until, as I continued reading, I realised it seemed to be serious. If they are serious, whoever the author is, Jack Chick or anyone else, they seem to be in serious need of psychological help. After I finished reading, and having a look at the other stuff on his website, I found myself extremely worried - my gut response from the comic was it had come from an unstable mind, and I've never come across anything which has provoked that response in me before. Highly unsettling, and potentially extremely damaging for Christianity to have what seems to be a rabid dog running wild in its name.
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Postby nick012000 on Wed May 04, 2005 3:38 am

kalikajira wrote:Actually, the Bible prohibits the calling up of spirits, necromancy, divination, and "enchanters". In fact, if you look at Acts, a known sorcerer became a Christian, and was not required to stop what he did.(Note: if anyone knows of a site with original Greek and Hebrew text, could you tell me? I've only got KJV to go on, and that's not always accurate.)


Well, taking a look here, it isn't clear as to whether he remained a practicing magician following his conversion to Christianity. What is clear, however, is that he tried to buy the ability to make miracles by the laying on off hands. And he got rejected.
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Postby Erik Mesoy on Wed May 04, 2005 4:36 am

Jack Stupid wrote:In fact, the Dungeon Master's Guide gives the celebrated Adolph Hitler as an example of a real historical person that exhibited D&D charisma! The values contained in the game are, at the very best, "might makes right."
Uhh... Hitler was a leader --> D&D is evil... HOW?

The above is a brilliant example of the criminal stupidity/insanity displayed by Jack Chick.
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Postby Death Mage on Wed May 04, 2005 4:47 am

I think we can all agree that Jack Chick is best left ignored.

Imagine the heart attack he'd have reading EGS!
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Postby Kizor on Wed May 04, 2005 5:40 am

Yeah, it's been my experience that online discussions involving Christianity get to talking about Jack Chick or [SANITY RIBBON] about half the time, at which point the quality swiftly degenerates. Shall we switch to any other topic?
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Postby Pixiest on Wed May 04, 2005 7:17 am

I'd love to see a "Chick Track" on EGS. I'd prolly laugh so hard I'd choke.

hmm... Fan art anyone?
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Postby Dahak on Wed May 04, 2005 8:33 am

Berk wrote:
Free Radical wrote:
Dahak wrote:Red hair and Fairy magic tends to implies Irish ancestry.

I know people think red hair and Ireland go together, but it really isn't all that common here. I agree though that there's no reason why Nanase's mother couldn't be a conservative Catholic.


I'm Irish and I don't have red hair, also, Tedd has purple hair, his dad has blue, the immortals have blue-green and pink hair. Regular hair colours don't seem to mean much.


A implies B does not mean B implies A.

Remember implication is not equality.

I.e. Redheads have a relatively high probability of Irish ancestry but Irish Ancestry does not mean your hair is most likely red.

The Japanese mythical implication for having naturally red hair and magic tends to be being a shapechanging fox rather than being irish.

In this case the reverse implication is Irish + Magic User implies a high likelyhood of either having red hair or being a Bard/Druid.

Incidently the Immortals appear to be elves. Elves tend to have exotic hair colours.

All speculation of course. but then so is most of this sort of discusion.
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Postby FalconWarrior on Wed May 04, 2005 3:55 pm

Xiroth wrote:I'd never heard of Jack Chick before today. I stumbled across a link to a cartoon on his website. I found it highly amusing...until, as I continued reading, I realised it seemed to be serious.


I saw that before, but it also had commentary from the robots of "Mystery Science Theatre 3000" It was hilarious.

"Wait a minute. This isn't a D&D game! Where are the Doritos? And the Mountain Dew? Plus, the women outnumber the men!"

"No rolling and she is dead? That's my kind of DM!"

"Whoa. I think the DM made a stinky."

"That's odd. I still havn't seen any Dark Dungeons."
"I think there's one behind the potted plant."

"NO DEBBIE! DON'T CHANGE THE LIGHTBULB WITH YOUR TEETH!"

"Wait, if she's all alone, then who did she leave the note for?"

"If only her stupid thief had made her saving throw!"

"This is gonna be the best himecoming bonfire ever!"
"Yes! Burn the Satanic checkerboard!"

"Whoa, the bible mentions D&D?"
"Yup I am a sinner."

TRACT: If you really made God your Lord (king) then act like it!
"You're the king? Well, I didn't vote for you!"

In all seriousness, Jack does indeed need professional help. He's crazy, man! Crazy! He'll kill us all! (Okay, maybe not ALL seriousness...)
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Postby AFNB on Wed May 04, 2005 4:24 pm

Jeffery McLean wrote:Such people are called Xtians... Taken from the comment about Xmass is taking christ out of christmass. In the same way Xians take christ out of christianity.


I dunno about that...

Sounds to me more like he's a fanatical Christian, that can be best described with a Judas line from Webber's "Jesus Christ Superstar"

And all the good you've done
Will soon be swept away,
You've begun to matter more
Than the things you say.


Personally, I'm an agnostic, and loving every moment of it. And as for the arguements about religion being bad for fiction and web comics...what if it actually centers on religion?

I'm actually writing a vampire hunter based story (hopefully to be published as a manga or webcomic), that takes religion very heavily into account - Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism, Islam, Shinto, and whatever else I can find that's out there. To that end I am making a point to research various religions, and make sure that I'm not putting anything incorrect or blasphemous in terms of that one religion (note: a complete avoidance of blasphemy for all these faiths is unavoidable, as they will contradict each other. But when dealing with Hinduism, I will avoid anything blasphemous regarding Hinduism, etc.). Given the diversity of faiths on this board, I would be grateful if people wold answer any questions I may have.
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Postby DeaExMachina on Wed May 04, 2005 4:25 pm

People who pull stuff out of there posteriors and claim it's truth like that guy harm whatever group they claim to be apart of. They are human Trojan Horses.
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Postby Death Mage on Wed May 04, 2005 11:27 pm

FalconWarrior wrote:
Xiroth wrote:I'd never heard of Jack Chick before today. I stumbled across a link to a cartoon on his website. I found it highly amusing...until, as I continued reading, I realised it seemed to be serious.


I saw that before, but it also had commentary from the robots of "Mystery Science Theatre 3000" It was hilarious.


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Postby Free Radical on Thu May 05, 2005 12:57 am

Dahak wrote:A implies B does not mean B implies A.

Remember implication is not equality.

I didn't say that it was, I'm merely pointing out that red hair is so uncommon here in Ireland that it's unlikely to make it probable that someone with red hair had Irish ancestors.

Dahak wrote:I.e. Redheads have a relatively high probability of Irish ancestry but Irish Ancestry does not mean your hair is most likely red.

I don't know where you're getting your information (or for that matter what country your information is for) so I can't really argue with you, but could you clarify what you mean by relatively?
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Postby Beacon on Thu May 05, 2005 7:57 am

Y'know, I DMed in D&D games for almost 10 years, and not once did any of my players commit suicide or join a satanic cult. I don't know what I was doing wrong.

A closer look at Chick's works (I know, why would you want to look closer) reveal he's sexist, too. In Dark Dungeons, the women are weak. It's a woman who commits suicide when her character dies (and if they had such a high level priest, why did that matter?), a woman who falls into practicing evil magic, and another woman who leads the way. The men include the friend who intervenes and the preacher who help save the wayward girl. I recall looking at one claiming that reading Harry Potter was a sin, which ultimately came down to a bible-quoting contest between a witch, trying to argue that God loved her anyway, and another guy, shooting down her arguments and proving that God, in fact, hated her. Considering this was about Harry Potter, the merits of reading about a completely fictional form of magic didn't really come up at all. Needless to say, the witch was female, and the Christian was male.
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Postby Kizor on Thu May 05, 2005 8:43 am

Oh fer crying out loud.
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Postby psirrow on Thu May 05, 2005 11:37 am

I'm sorry. This topic is 5 pages long and I'd rather not re-read the past pages. I'm just going off of the last few posts and I appear to agree with them for the most part. Since I appear to agree with them I'm probably going to be repeating something someone already said. If I'm going to be doing that I feel the need to appologise for doing so. Hence the first post.

I personally believe that Nanase is a christian and I think that she is probably a pretty good one. I don't avidly read the new testament and have yet to make it through the entire bible, but I don't quite recall the part where one had to be uptight and condem everyone around them. From what I recall from the first few books of the old testament (Yes, I have read them), it appears that most of the old rulings were focused on making sure the followers didn't go about worshiping the rocks around them and stayed in good health without committing suicide. Nanase honors her mother as far as I can tell, but does not value some of her rules. That is fine by me, she simply wants to spare her mother's feelings.

The sensationalists aren't always right, I seem to remember certain groups of "mainstream" Jews about 2000 years back that really got the big guy's ire up.
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