Is Nanase christian?

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Postby Kizor on Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:05 am

Protestant Lutheran, and what there is to say has pretty much already been said, but yeah, thanks.
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Postby Xiroth on Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:28 am

Death Mage wrote:We don't really need to know all of their motiviations behind their decisions to recogonize their patterns, and know their characters well enough.

Actually, IMO you've hit the right point in the wrong direction here. I'd say understanding motivations is far more important than recognizing patterns, and it's only when you understand a character's motivations that you can really begin to know the character.

From this angle, religion can be fairly important. I come from an areligious background, and have no inclinations toward any religion, so I am far from the best authority on this subject. But I've observed that religion can have a significant impact on those who follow it, from people who are influenced in a very minor way to those for whom religion is a critical component of most decisions.

However, given that Dan has said that he's not interested in heading into religion, and that no characters' thoughts or decisions have been visibly (well, to we readers) influenced by their religion I think it's reasonably safe to assume that none of the characters are strongly religious. Until a character does do something clearly religious (like, say, Nanase praying for guidance in this emotionally stressful time), I think we can discount religion as a direct motivator for their decisions - i.e. their religious beliefs are little to none.
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Postby Pixiest on Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:10 am

Great post Raven. It gets to the heart of the reason I asked the question in the first place.
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Postby Erik Mesoy on Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:15 am

Darkshive wrote:
regal wrote:I don't think anyone's religious beliefs have come up. That can be a tricky minefield Dan doesn't want to enter.

The closest I've gotten to religious issues was in Tam eh Tedd, and that's about as far as I'm willing to go. The only way I could do it without opening up a can of worms and/or being disrespectful would be to make it as serious and non-stereotypical as possible, and that's really limiting. It's not something I really want EGS to focus on.
(Speaking as a Theist,) I really must agree. "Can of worms" is sure to be the case when religion slips into a webcomic. Congratulations, Dan, for swearing off such a sensitive issue.

(One rather annoying example I've seen is COTC. Magic rituals, all very well. "Showing off" that their specific belief system works, with witnesses present (specifically, the doctor and the vicar IIRC) is being an ass... and the Wiccan Resources button on the left doesn't exactly help.)
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Postby bunnyThor on Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:55 am

Minivet wrote:The mother (a Japanese-American, remember)


We don't actually know that. That is pure speculation.
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Postby Illjwamh on Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:55 am

Actually, I'm fairly sure it's Nanase's father who is Japanese-American. Judging from her last name, this makes the most sense, unless bother her parents are.
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Postby Tuitsuro on Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:21 pm

Or perhaps her father took her mother's maiden name. Hey, it could happen. Especially if she came from a higher 'class'...
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Postby azrael_2001 on Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:24 pm

Erik Mesoy wrote:(One rather annoying example I've seen is COTC. Magic rituals, all very well. "Showing off" that their specific belief system works, with witnesses present (specifically, the doctor and the vicar IIRC) is being an ass... and the Wiccan Resources button on the left doesn't exactly help.)[/size]


Define "their". Do you perhaps mean the author of COTC? Then do some more research if you please - Jamie is IIRC, some brand of Christian or other.
The story of COTC is that of a young witch coming to terms with an ancient family curse. It would be less of a story if the "curse" was something obviously mundane, hence the strong emphasis on the arcane. The thing is, one of the last rituals I remember was that of the principal's Christian brother-in-law exorcising his house by invoking the Holy Trinity. Which worked. And was dead flashy, with the sfx.
Seriously, complaining about witchcraft in COTC is roughly equivalent to complaining that the TFG could never work, and saying that it's use in EGS is annoying because of this fact. Admittedly, the author of COTC has chosen a known World Religion as his basis for weirdness, but a whole other set of people would have complained if Chelsea was a Jedi. :P
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Postby Jeffery McLean on Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:55 pm

I've seen a christian cross worn ornementally on occasion by indviduals who are about as christian as Anton Levay or Alistar Crowly.

It's become less and less a symbol of religion and more just a way of saying to the world "hands off".
It's an important addition to a sexy outfit becouse some people get the wrong idea.
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Postby Deiwos on Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:16 pm

Then there are people like me who where them for no more reason than we think they look nice. I have this little removable pendant thing, and I can swap out the thing that's on it now for a bunch of other things, and one of my choices is a simple little black cross. I rather like it ^.^
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Postby kalikajira on Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:09 pm

I'd just like to echo the thanks for there being no generalizations about Christians. There was actually a point in GPF where the author delved into Christianity, actual Biblical, "Love thy neighbour" kind of Christianity, and the forum goers were happily bashing all Christians for the opinions of a vocal minority who practice a message of hate, not Christ-like love. Thank you, Dan, for making a decision not to let something like that happen here.

As for Nanase's cross, I'd have to agree that it's probably just that she likes it or it's a "hands-off" kind of thing. After all, she does wear some very attention getting clothes to school.
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Postby Tuitsuro on Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:44 pm

I guess this is where the boy mindset vs the girl mindset comes in, because why in the heck would a girl represent herself as, "lookie, but no touchie"? As a guy, I don`t understand that. Is it the difference in wanting to be appealing vs wanting to deal with certain people?

Another thought, would the discussion be any different had Nanase been wearing a Star of David, or a Triqueta, or a Pentagram?
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Postby Minivet on Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:05 pm

Huh. It would make sense given her last name (I'd forgotten about that), but I was assuming from Mr. Verres referring to her as his "sister-in-law" that Nanase's father is the blood relative. I suppose given weirdnesses Mr. Verres could have a Japanese brother, though.

This is a tangent, and probably it's been discussed before, but now that I look at the above-referenced, it occurs to me that perhaps Nanase's parents are estranged, which would be a more normal reason for Nanase's surname to be Kitsune rather than Verres. (It would explain the "Is that Nanase? It's been so long; didn't even recognize you there!")
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Postby Xiroth on Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:21 pm

Tuitsuro wrote:I guess this is where the boy mindset vs the girl mindset comes in, because why in the heck would a girl represent herself as, "lookie, but no touchie"? As a guy, I don`t understand that. Is it the difference in wanting to be appealing vs wanting to deal with certain people?

This apparent contradiction confused me a great deal for a long time too. The conclusion I finally ended up coming to after a lot of thought and investigation was that young women, particularly those under the age of about 20, generally don't dress like that to be impress men except with obvious exceptions (like dates). They are, instead, dressing like that to be fashionable and impress their girlfriends. It's only because the fashions of this era are as they are that they dress like that, rather than because they want to be stared at or hit on by random men (well, getting hit on by attractive guys could be considered a beneficial side-effect in some circumstances, I suppose).

Any women in the forum who disagree should feel free to contradict me :P

Tuitsuro wrote:Another thought, would the discussion be any different had Nanase been wearing a Star of David, or a Triqueta, or a Pentagram?
Echooooooooo...

They don't carry the same 'good person' weight as crosses do in our society - some of those actually have negative connotations thanks to events in European history (which is where many modern values and connotations are derived from in the west).
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Postby MamiyaOtaru on Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:02 pm

Minivet wrote:Huh. It would make sense given her last name (I'd forgotten about that), but I was assuming from Mr. Verres referring to her as his "sister-in-law" that Nanase's father is the blood relative. I suppose given weirdnesses Mr. Verres could have a Japanese brother, though.
I would posit that neither of Nanase's parents is a blood relative of Mr. Verres. I can't back any of this up with links to comics, but here goes the thought process. From Tedd's eyes and their similarities to Nanase's, I suppose he is half Japanese. From there, I would assume that Mr Verres' wife is Japanese, and that her sister (Mr. Verres' sister in law) is Nanase's mother.

Remember, sister in law doesn't just mean the wife of your brother, it can also mean the sister of your wife. IE: my brother in law is my sister's husband, and I am also his brother in law, the brother of his wife.
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Postby Minivet on Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:42 pm

MamiyaOtaru wrote:
Minivet wrote:Huh. It would make sense given her last name (I'd forgotten about that), but I was assuming from Mr. Verres referring to her as his "sister-in-law" that Nanase's father is the blood relative. I suppose given weirdnesses Mr. Verres could have a Japanese brother, though.
I would posit that neither of Nanase's parents is a blood relative of Mr. Verres. I can't back any of this up with links to comics, but here goes the thought process. From Tedd's eyes and their similarities to Nanase's, I suppose he is half Japanese. From there, I would assume that Mr Verres' wife is Japanese, and that her sister (Mr. Verres' sister in law) is Nanase's mother.

Remember, sister in law doesn't just mean the wife of your brother, it can also mean the sister of your wife. IE: my brother in law is my sister's husband, and I am also his brother in law, the brother of his wife.


Aha, there was something I was failing to consider after all.

And since we know Mr. Verres is divorced, that could explain him rarely seeing Nanase lately, without having to multiply entities.

Now that I think of it, she could even easily be another level removed, Mr. Verres's wife's brother's wife.

...which would mean she isn't necessarily Japanese. Back to square one.
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Postby Erik Mesoy on Sun May 01, 2005 1:03 am

azrael_2001 wrote:
Erik Mesoy wrote:(One rather annoying example I've seen is COTC. Magic rituals, all very well. "Showing off" that their specific belief system works, with witnesses present (specifically, the doctor and the vicar IIRC) is being an ass... and the Wiccan Resources button on the left doesn't exactly help.)

Define "their".
The characters. The author, IMO, made a bit of a blunder, but it's the characters who look like asses for it.
azrael_2001 wrote:<snip story>Seriously, complaining about witchcraft in COTC is roughly equivalent to complaining that the TFG could never work, and saying that it's use in EGS is annoying because of this fact. Admittedly, the author of COTC has chosen a known World Religion as his basis for weirdness,
Which is exactly my problem with it. RL religions do not mix well into fantasy stories, as a rule. The characters end up as a) parodies or b) showy (if right) or c) stupid (if wrong).
Also, the TFG does not exist in reality, the TFG has not appeared in six major films and a series of books, and the TFG has no belief attached to it.

azrael_2001 wrote: but a whole other set of people would have complained if Chelsea was a Jedi. :P
I'm not even going to get started on the copyright lawsuits this would have led to.


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This is really odd...

Postby Calemyr on Sun May 01, 2005 2:46 am

I can't help it, this is too amusing not to comment on. This comic brings up the issue of sexual orientation on a regular basis (heck, Dan even had to create a *new* orientation just to handle Uryuom nature), but finds the concept of religion to be too hot to touch?

I won't argue with it, but I had to at least mention it.
I hope that made sense...
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Postby Xiroth on Sun May 01, 2005 3:02 am

That's not really all that unexpected, considering the number of wars fought over religion compared to the number of wars fought over sexuality. Religion is obviously just a touchier subject :P

On a slightly less flippant note, some of the more conservative religious people have become highly defensive/aggressive as they see it being eroded in modern society and becoming less central to people's lives, so they are beginning to take offence at any negative connotations. This isn't a reflection on any religion (or religion in general), but rather on the nature of people who feel that they are losing ground. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is a something which is still in the process of being accepted into society, so there the defensiveness/aggressiveness of homosexuals is of a different nature, and they are far less likely to take offense except at a extremely negative portrayals.
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Postby Dahak on Sun May 01, 2005 6:37 am

Weavah wrote:Nanase wearing a cross suggests that she is some type of Christian, or at least closer to being one than she is to being a Zoroastrian, Pagan, or Cthulhu Cultist.


Or shes a Humakti. :)

Or wears it for the same sort of reasons Buffy Summers occasionally wears one.

In a Universe with werewolves carrying silver has uses beyond religon.

I'll note that she has Fairy Magic, which implies a non-christian religous outlook.
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Postby Kizor on Sun May 01, 2005 6:57 am

Does Harry Potter imply a non-Christian outlook?
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Postby FalconWarrior on Sun May 01, 2005 7:23 am

Of course it does, why else would the Christians want it banned?
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Postby Pixiest on Sun May 01, 2005 7:29 am

Be nice Falcon. That's a very small minority of christians.
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Postby Subjectmatter on Sun May 01, 2005 7:50 am

While were on the topic of the rights of minorities and minorities fighting to change things, would Loretta - from Life of Brian - have the right to have babies in the here and now?

I'm asking because of the (from my point of view) weird controversy over homosexual marriages, with people insisting that "A marriage is the union of an man and a woman".

Would they insist on bearing children as being exclusively the woman's domain?
I know only a few nations, recently Sweden (*yay*) joined these ranks, allow homosexual couples to adopt children. But I'm fairly sure there is no law presently in place in any nation which specifically prevents men from bearing children. Will we be seeing that in the future?
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Postby Tuitsuro on Sun May 01, 2005 8:34 am

A lot of BS happens in the name of religion, but that's just because of its nature. A lot can happen if a group feels strongly enough about anything. But believe it when I say most religious types are normal people. It's just, there are always extremes.

I don`t know... is it completely unfeasible that any of the characters in EGS have any sort of religious beliefs at all?
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