[Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby ForkBomb on Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:03 am

Illusionist wrote:The EGS site has adverts. Every hit Dan gets gives him money.

It's not much, but in a roundabout way, we pay him.


Less than $6 a day. Woo yeah, going to be a millionaire in no time! ($7.04 5-day average, 25% commission.)
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Illusionist on Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:15 am

So what, you're suggesting we should only ever say nice things? How will he improve that way?
The book is almost always better than the movie. You could have no better case in point than FROM HELL, Alan Moore's best graphic novel to date, brilliantly illustrated by Eddie Campbell. It's hard to describe just how much better the book is. It's like, "If the movie was an episode of Battlestar Galactica with a guest appearance by the Smurfs and everyone spoke Dutch, the graphic novel is Citizen Kane with added sex scenes and music by your favourite ten bands and everyone in the world you ever hated dies at the end." That's how much better it is. - Warren Ellis.

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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby ForkBomb on Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:21 am

Constructive criticism, sure. Whiny complaints that you aren't getting what you want, no.

Why do people always feel more entitlement to free things? When they pay, they put up with getting shafted, when its free, they bitch like spoiled children.
It's one of the big reasons why lots of small FLOSS fold, the author gets pissed at all the whiny kids and gives up. I really don't want the same to happen here.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Tenebrais on Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:42 am

ForkBomb wrote:Why do people always feel more entitlement to free things? When they pay, they put up with getting shafted, when its free, they bitch like spoiled children.
It's one of the big reasons why lots of small FLOSS fold, the author gets pissed at all the whiny kids and gives up. I really don't want the same to happen here.

If you pay for something, it means you've made a conscious choice to sacrifice (in a sense) for it. You tend to need to justify the sacrifice, both to yourself and others, so you highlight the good points and gloss over the bad. This is, I think, the driving force behind console wars and the like.
If someone gives something away for free, however, there's the implication that they want you to see it. So you might feel you're doing the creator a favour in seeing it. Hence the sense of entitlement, as well as being much more critical due to not having to justify your choice.
That's how I see it, anyway.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby DarkShive on Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:02 am

I appreciate the people who read the comic, but I feel no obligations beyond making more backgrounds once I can do so without delaying the comic itself. I cannot live on EGS alone, and family, friends, school and work should and will come first. EGS is something I want to do, so I intend to make time for it, but if I'm late sometimes or take time off? That's just the way it's gonna be.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Aeg'air on Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:48 am

Fair enough.....

......

Read your twitter thing on mocking us, rofl.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby nitpicking on Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:12 am

To clarify, I don't think those of us who have directly sent money to Dan therefore have the right to tell him what to do.

In fact, while I don't think Dan minds constructive criticism (given that he sometimes asks for it), "This is bad" is not constructive criticism. "I couldn't figure out which word balloon to read first in panel 3" or "Tedd's backpack looked like part of his vest" are constructive criticism, in that they help Dan improve his craft.

Dan, feel free to tell me I'm wrong--I accept constructive criticism of my forum posts quite well.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Stardrake_ on Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:46 am

The Old Hack wrote:Including me, and I got my books.
Unlike some...

Illusionist wrote:The EGS site has adverts. Every hit Dan gets gives him money.

It's not much, but in a roundabout way, we pay him.
And every hit costs him money. The advertising offsets this, and may even turn a profit, but it's nothing to earn a living off.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby The Old Hack on Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:04 am

Stardrake_ wrote:
The Old Hack wrote:Including me, and I got my books.
Unlike some...

That really, really sucks. :( What in the world could be keeping the stupid things?
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Illusionist on Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:17 am

ForkBomb wrote: bitch like spoiled children.


OK, you know what? Screw you. Screw you for trying to tell me that if I complain about something, I'm childish.

Let's say we're discussing The Simpsons. If someone says "I don't like this and this about modern episodes, and here are my specific reasons", is that person childish? Is that person acting spoilt?

Guess what, sunshine? All criticism is constructive. All criticism is telling somebody what they are doing wrong, in the hopes that they will do something else that isn't wrong. Sure, some of it's more polite than the rest, but it's all basically the same.
The book is almost always better than the movie. You could have no better case in point than FROM HELL, Alan Moore's best graphic novel to date, brilliantly illustrated by Eddie Campbell. It's hard to describe just how much better the book is. It's like, "If the movie was an episode of Battlestar Galactica with a guest appearance by the Smurfs and everyone spoke Dutch, the graphic novel is Citizen Kane with added sex scenes and music by your favourite ten bands and everyone in the world you ever hated dies at the end." That's how much better it is. - Warren Ellis.

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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Tenebrais on Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:36 am

Illusionist wrote:Guess what, sunshine? All criticism is constructive. All criticism is telling somebody what they are doing wrong, in the hopes that they will do something else that isn't wrong. Sure, some of it's more polite than the rest, but it's all basically the same.

Not necessarily. Criticism saying "I don't like the way you do X, Y, Z" is constructive, and saying how you think they could do better is moreso. But just saying "it sucks" counts as criticism, and isn't helpful in the slightest.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Illusionist on Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:38 am

"It sucks" counts as criticism? I wasn't really working under that assumption.
The book is almost always better than the movie. You could have no better case in point than FROM HELL, Alan Moore's best graphic novel to date, brilliantly illustrated by Eddie Campbell. It's hard to describe just how much better the book is. It's like, "If the movie was an episode of Battlestar Galactica with a guest appearance by the Smurfs and everyone spoke Dutch, the graphic novel is Citizen Kane with added sex scenes and music by your favourite ten bands and everyone in the world you ever hated dies at the end." That's how much better it is. - Warren Ellis.

Nobody ever told Picard that "Ye cannae change the laws of Physics!". They just DID it. - Vampiress Kat.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Tenebrais on Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:40 am

Strictly speaking, yes. Although criticism is one of those words that can have different meanings depending on who you ask.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby The Old Hack on Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:22 am

Tenebrais wrote:Strictly speaking, yes. Although criticism is one of those words that can have different meanings depending on who you ask.

As an aside, you can argue about enormous amounts of words that way. So much is situational and context based. And of course, there is the classic "it depends on what the definition of is is..." :-?
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby DarkShive on Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:58 am

And sometimes people don't want your criticism and you should shut the hell up. This applies to me, too, as I learned in another forum over the past couple days.

Incidentally, by Illusionist's logic, what I just said is totally valid criticism, as is Forkbomb's criticism of people whining.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Illusionist on Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:11 am

Hey, remember that time Tenebrais pointed out a hole in my statement? Remember that time I explained that I had been using a different definition of "criticism" to some people?

Remember that time Dan shot his mouth off without reading the last few posts in a topic, and so made himself look a bit of a twat?
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Tricia on Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:55 am

DarkShive wrote:I appreciate the people who read the comic, but I feel no obligations beyond making more backgrounds once I can do so without delaying the comic itself. I cannot live on EGS alone, and family, friends, school and work should and will come first. EGS is something I want to do, so I intend to make time for it, but if I'm late sometimes or take time off? That's just the way it's gonna be.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Aeg'air on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:28 pm

Illusionist wrote:Hey, remember that time Tenebrais pointed out a hole in my statement? Remember that time I explained that I had been using a different definition of "criticism" to some people?

Remember that time Dan shot his mouth off without reading the last few posts in a topic, and so made himself look a bit of a twat?


Remember the time someone insulted an entire religion and got crucified for it...
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Tenebrais on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:31 pm

Remember the time the Web was a nice place to socialise?

No, me neither.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Tuitsuro on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:53 pm

Tenebrais wrote:Remember the time the Web was a nice place to socialise?

No, me neither.


Some people don't want to treat internet forums as dictatorships, so it creates problems. You treat everyone nice and expect everyone to act nice, they'll just end up owning you.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby benkenobi5 on Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:12 pm

Aeg'air wrote:
Illusionist wrote:Hey, remember that time Tenebrais pointed out a hole in my statement? Remember that time I explained that I had been using a different definition of "criticism" to some people?

Remember that time Dan shot his mouth off without reading the last few posts in a topic, and so made himself look a bit of a twat?


Remember the time someone insulted an entire religion and got crucified for it...

ok... aeg'air is either talking about someone on the forum, Jesus, or someone who said something against Scientology.

maybe all three.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Proginoskes on Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:18 am

Tricia wrote:*obligatory plug for the All Male Wallpaper*
*Obligatory SECONDING*
The Old Hack wrote:As an aside, you can argue about enormous amounts of words that way. So much is situational and context based. And of course, there is the classic "it depends on what the definition of is is..." :-?
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Tarvok on Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:59 am

Illusionist wrote:Hey, remember that time Tenebrais pointed out a hole in my statement? Remember that time I explained that I had been using a different definition of "criticism" to some people?

Remember that time Dan shot his mouth off without reading the last few posts in a topic, and so made himself look a bit of a twat?


You know, I'm normally quite anarchist in my approach to life. But I'm pretty sure a direct personal attack on the author/moderator is a bannable offense. If it isn't, it should be.
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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Illusionist on Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:15 am

Reread the post. I'm not saying he is stupid, I'm saying he did something a bit stupid.
The book is almost always better than the movie. You could have no better case in point than FROM HELL, Alan Moore's best graphic novel to date, brilliantly illustrated by Eddie Campbell. It's hard to describe just how much better the book is. It's like, "If the movie was an episode of Battlestar Galactica with a guest appearance by the Smurfs and everyone spoke Dutch, the graphic novel is Citizen Kane with added sex scenes and music by your favourite ten bands and everyone in the world you ever hated dies at the end." That's how much better it is. - Warren Ellis.

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Re: [Story 1-20-09]Unbelievable

Postby Aeg'air on Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:00 am

benkenobi5 wrote:
Aeg'air wrote:
Illusionist wrote:Hey, remember that time Tenebrais pointed out a hole in my statement? Remember that time I explained that I had been using a different definition of "criticism" to some people?

Remember that time Dan shot his mouth off without reading the last few posts in a topic, and so made himself look a bit of a twat?


Remember the time someone insulted an entire religion and got crucified for it...

ok... aeg'air is either talking about someone on the forum, Jesus, or someone who said something against Scientology.

maybe all three.
:P


Just insulting the way this thread is going :wink:
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