[STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby nc-edsl on Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:14 pm

Yeah, that's filler bunny. I would have used a more yobbish rabbit but Google was being uncooperative. (The closest thing I could find before giving up was a vibrator shaped like an angry rabbit, which didn't quite seem appropriate.)
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Chaos Priest on Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:27 pm

:o How in the...

Wait, did you actually search using the terms "dick bunny"?
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby SQRT(-2) on Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:29 pm

Yay comic!

Although for a moment I did think we were in the past. The whole 'the past is not colorized' thing.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Nightranger on Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:43 pm


Nice job on the coloring. :)

somercet wrote:First off, I am very happy Dan is back in production. Reading all my webcomics sans EGS for the last month gave me the nagging feeling of missing something

Here, here! :rootbeer:

But EGS, while it has its own wit, is far more emotional. The B&W art is good (a bit stark in 3-7, with no crosshatches, deliberate?), but Miyu’s color adds warmth and depth to it. Panel 4 suffers from the color: Susan’s half-profile is not as effective.

That's close to one of my main complaints with black and white. Straigh black and white (as opposed to greyscale) is the extreme of contrast (DUH!!). Maybe it's just me, but high contrast seems to lend itself to darker and edgier, more serious sorts of storys. It just seems to have a certain harshness to it. On the other hand, color adds more warmth and levity to a scene, which seems to fit EGS much more snuggly. Just my two cents.

Circe wrote:I'll still miss the color. I know B&W is considered an artform unto itself but it always looks to me like something that isn't finished yet. In my own attempts at art I'm never satisifed at leaving it with nothing but inking for that reason. :shrug: There's no accounting for taste.

Part of why it may look unfinished now is just because it's not what we're used to. This may also be the case with your own works: you just "think in color." That's how it sounds like you picture your art ideas, so they don't look right until that's how they are.

I've seen great stuff that not just happens to also be black and white, but looks great because it's in black and white. Other stuff just doesn't look quite right. In general, I think whether or not and how well black and white works, versus color or greyscale, depends on the individual case.

DarkShive wrote:I will experiment more with this before next week, however, and see what conclusions I reach.

To be honest, I'm not that suprised. To be even more honest, I actually wasn't terribly suprised upon reading that you were switching to a new art style. You do that every now and then, I've noticed. ;) Now that I think of it, these changes in style do seem to typically occur around the time of a hiatus, if I recall correctly. And when you start changing things, I've noticed you tend to play around with several different ideas. It makes since: once you start changing things, you might as well go for any other changes you've been thinking about. And it does take a bit of dialling in to find something that works. That's one of the things that makes EGS unique, is that you're always looking to improve the way you do things, even if it means major art or style changes.

Now, to be downright cynical. To anyone else who doesn't like the change: just wait a few months, Dan'll have changed his art style again. :P
*ducks*

Chaos Priest wrote::o How in the...

Wait, did you actually search using the terms "dick bunny"?

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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby nc-edsl on Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:20 pm

Chaos Priest wrote::o How in the...

Wait, did you actually search using the terms "dick bunny"?


Yes, but I wasn't really expecting anything appropriate. That's not where the angry rabbit vibrator showed up, though.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby ChronosCat on Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:26 pm

Wow, it's rather jarring having the strip in b&w after a year of color. I thought NP would have prepared me, but it didn't.

I'm not sure what, but something about the look of the first two panels doesn't look right to me (and I'm not talking about Catalina's lack of Cat-girl-hair, though her hair does look a bit frizzy).

...Anybody else notice Verucket's hair is lifting off from his head in the second to last panel?

nitpicking wrote:Wait a minute, demerits? Since when do American schools have demerits?
That's the sort of thing that varies from school to school.

(I remember, I was in 6th grade when my "Middle School" (5th - 8th grades) started using "merit points" for good behavior; I guess they felt the "demerit" system was too negative. None of the kids actually cared about the "merit points", though, so the system was basically a flop.)

Nightranger wrote:That's close to one of my main complaints with black and white. Straigh black and white (as opposed to greyscale) is the extreme of contrast (DUH!!). Maybe it's just me, but high contrast seems to lend itself to darker and edgier, more serious sorts of storys. It just seems to have a certain harshness to it. On the other hand, color adds more warmth and levity to a scene, which seems to fit EGS much more snuggly. Just my two cents.


I was going to make a similar point in the thread discussing the news of the switch to b&w, but I decided not to take the time to figure out how to word it. Still, for the most part this strip works for me.

Nightranger wrote:Now, to be downright cynical. To anyone else who doesn't like the change: just wait a few months, Dan'll have changed his art style again. :P
*ducks*


And by then, some of us (such as myself) will be so used to this style we'll be sad to see it go (unless he's adding color back in, anyway). :P

As a final note, while I prefer color for EGS, I want to emphasis that I still enjoy it in b&w, and expect to continue enjoying it.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Nocturn on Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:14 am

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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Stardrake_ on Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:04 am

Illusionist wrote:As for examples, I play guitar. If I come up with some little ditty, and then my teacher says "change this chord, it'll be even better", I'll give it a shot. And if it sounds better, great! If it doesn't, oh well. Either way, I won't be annoyed, because it's just someone trying their best to make something nice.
However, that's still a case of you improving the performance - your teacher is just making the suggestion. Dan's example is more like if the teacher had taken your guitar and played it with your modification.

Bottom line, really, is that even if it wouldn't matter to you, it does matter for him. Dan produces the comic for fun, not as a job. If having it refined after he's produced it is something that annoys him, it's something that annoys him, no matter whether you consider that attitude irrational or not.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the current form of the art.

In short, let Dan do what he wants to do with it. Remember that he could have just kept it as his own private work without sharing it with us. Personally, having gone through university myself (albeit with a different major) I find it impressive enough that he manages to produce as much as he does in between his coursework - and yet, at times he appears to be put in a catch-22 where on the one hand he is criticised for not producing enough, while on the other hand is is criticised for anything he does in order to try to improve the rate of production.

Besides, I highly doubt that anyone is going to stop reading just because of the switch to black and white.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby CaliforniaDave on Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:37 am

Commentary wrote:He’s a guy who cares, tries hard and means well, but is completely nuts.


Hey - I resemble that!
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby demonhunter on Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:06 am

Miyu's colouring job looked pretty nice.

That being said, it's up to Dan to decide whether or not he wants a colourist. Even as fans, it's not our place to tell him he should do something.

I'm in full support of whatever Dan decides to do with his comic's artwork. After all, I don't read it for the art, I read it for the STORY. Heck, I'd probably still read it if it were published in text novel form with no artwork at all :P (I'd be very surprised if that wound up becoming reality, though).

Just my AUD 2 cents.

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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Reg DeCurry on Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:21 am

Is it me, or are the magical hair fairies causing the principal's mustache to flare up in panel 6? Also, word of the day: hooligans! :lol: (Bill Hicks fans will understand.)

---

The black and white art looks pretty good, kind of like a full-length EGS:NP strip. In particular, the "glow" effect on Susan's hair keeps it from looking flat--should work great if she's in an all-black background.

As for the commentary, if you enjoy coloring single panels, then do so when you think appropriate and leave the other panels b&w. Yes, it will draw more attention, but that can be good when you're trying to emphasize a point in-comic.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Illusionist on Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:56 am

DarkShive wrote:Frankly, I believe the issue with Illusionist has to do with being pushy with a "this argument can't be over because I'm not satisfied yet" attitude.


It's more due to you ignoring many of the posts made in reply to your challenge. For example: You mentioned a chef whose recipe is altered. An actual chef replied to this, saying it was perfectly OK for people to change recipes. You never responded to said chef.

Not to mention the points about game mods, and remixes. You just kept complaining about the teacher thing, talking about college teachers and critique sessions even after I explained that it was a 1 on 1 thing rather than formal education. You just ignore posts that you can't answer, instead of saying "You're right, that was a bad example. Let me explain myself differently".
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby The Old Hack on Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:42 am

Illusionist wrote:
DarkShive wrote:Frankly, I believe the issue with Illusionist has to do with being pushy with a "this argument can't be over because I'm not satisfied yet" attitude.


It's more due to you ignoring many of the posts made in reply to your challenge. For example: You mentioned a chef whose recipe is altered. An actual chef replied to this, saying it was perfectly OK for people to change recipes. You never responded to said chef.

*scratches head* I dunno. Dan didn't respond specifically to him but I felt he did reply in general. That being said, I can see how you're left with that feeling, Illusionist. However, I also feel that patience is the way to go in this -- Dan has a lot of plates to juggle just now, so expecting him to address everything in an entire debate may be a bit... much. :( It's a phenomenon I have experienced before myself, from both sides. I have been in forum debates where I never received a direct response to my own questions and had to infer my answers from the responses to others, and I have been the person everyone was asking questions of and had a really hard time keeping track of everything and giving everyone a fair response.

And yes, in an ideal world I should have been able to give everybody a satisfactory reply. Unfortunately I'm not perfect. :-?
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby DemonicAngel on Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:28 am

I kinda like this b and w style. It's...clean, if that makes sense. Also, it reminds me of the Comic Convention arc in the NP comics...a style which I quite liked. Also, there seems to be more focus on the characters, rather than having them merge with the backgrounds, due to it all being colour.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Illusionist on Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:35 am

DemonicAngel wrote:I kinda like this b and w style. It's...clean, if that makes sense. Also, it reminds me of the Comic Convention arc in the NP comics...a style which I quite liked. Also, there seems to be more focus on the characters, rather than having them merge with the backgrounds, due to it all being colour.


Now that I don't get. How does a beige human blend with a green background, but a black and white human not blend with a black and white background? Unless you've just read all of Sin City, I don't see how vibrant colours can make people hard to distinguish.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby The Old Hack on Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:07 am

Illusionist wrote:Now that I don't get. How does a beige human blend with a green background, but a black and white human not blend with a black and white background? Unless you've just read all of Sin City, I don't see how vibrant colours can make people hard to distinguish.

As a small aside, and noting that I really can't claim to be anything even remotely near an expert on this, camouflage colours don't work the way you'd expect them to. For example, dark green paint on human skin is better camouflage in nighttime than black is. A tiger, which is orange with black stripes, has excellent concealment in a green jungle. The zebra, which is white with black stripes, can be quite hard to spot in tall yellow grass. It's all very odd and almost counterintuitive. As Pratchett would put it, it just goes to show. *scratches head*
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Illusionist on Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:12 am

I was saying that to me, it's far easier to distinguish different objects in colour than in black and white.

That's why Film Noir was in black and white, even though colour cameras were available - the shadows swallowed everything, so it looked more dramatic.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby The Old Hack on Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:23 am

Illusionist wrote:I was saying that to me, it's far easier to distinguish different objects in colour than in black and white.

That's why Film Noir was in black and white, even though colour cameras were available - the shadows swallowed everything, so it looked more dramatic.

Well yeah. Also, I have just had pointed out to me that the reason these animals possess such effective camouflage is that their prey/predators don't really have effective colour vision. So, I guess it is the same thing. Don't mind me, anyway, I was just rambling.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Illusionist on Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:26 am

It was interesting rambling, at least.
The book is almost always better than the movie. You could have no better case in point than FROM HELL, Alan Moore's best graphic novel to date, brilliantly illustrated by Eddie Campbell. It's hard to describe just how much better the book is. It's like, "If the movie was an episode of Battlestar Galactica with a guest appearance by the Smurfs and everyone spoke Dutch, the graphic novel is Citizen Kane with added sex scenes and music by your favourite ten bands and everyone in the world you ever hated dies at the end." That's how much better it is. - Warren Ellis.

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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby DemonicAngel on Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:55 am

I guess my vision is screwy, then. It just seems to me that the characters in the new comic are more vivid, compared to their background, than characters from the colour comics.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Circe on Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:56 am

The Old Hack wrote:
Illusionist wrote:I was saying that to me, it's far easier to distinguish different objects in colour than in black and white.

That's why Film Noir was in black and white, even though colour cameras were available - the shadows swallowed everything, so it looked more dramatic.

Well yeah. Also, I have just had pointed out to me that the reason these animals possess such effective camouflage is that their prey/predators don't really have effective colour vision. So, I guess it is the same thing. Don't mind me, anyway, I was just rambling.



The lack of color vision is part of it. Another (terribly geeky) point about zebras is that the stripes help them blend in with each other. Predators like to go after the young, infirm, or old -- basically prey that is easier to chase down. When zebras are all bunched together with all those overlapping stripes it is hard to pick out individuals.

Maybe this is why sports officials in America so often wear stripes?
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Ranma_2k8 on Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:09 pm

*emerges from hiding*

I'd just like to say that I've never read EGS simply for the color. True, color is nice, but I've always considered it to be something extra that Dan was doing just for the heck of it. No, the reason I read EGS is because of the story, which Dan is very skilled at telling. No, I'm not sucking up here, either.

Anyway, my feeling is, the art style is still essentially the same, just uncolored. Is that really a deal breaker to you guys? If it is, then let me say that you're an awfully finicky bunch. If it isn't, then stop complaining, accept Dan's reasoning, and enjoy the fact that he's trying to put out comics on a three-per-week schedule again. Whether you're "satisfied" with the reasons Dan gives or not is, quite frankly, 100% irrelevent.

And that's the bottom line, 'cause Ranma said so.

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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby The Old Hack on Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:12 pm

DemonicAngel wrote:I guess my vision is screwy, then. It just seems to me that the characters in the new comic are more vivid, compared to their background, than characters from the colour comics.

Not necessarily, and it raises an interesting notion in my alleged brain: that while humans in general may have colour vision, individuals perceive them differently from one another. It may be that those of us who have a liking for black and white art actually do so because our eyes somehow 'prefer' to work with black and white imagery, while those whose leanings go towards colour do so because that is their preferred sort of imagery. (I am not saying that these would be very strong tendencies if they exist at all, only that they may be a possible if subtle basis for individual tastes.)

I might be completely off base here as I am once again randomly speculating. *scratches head*
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby ChronosCat on Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:46 pm

DemonicAngel wrote:I guess my vision is screwy, then. It just seems to me that the characters in the new comic are more vivid, compared to their background, than characters from the colour comics.


The lines on people are generally darker and thicker than those on background scenery. This is the case in both b&w and color comics, but in b&w the eye is drawn to the lines.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Nightranger on Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:40 pm

Ranma_2k8 wrote:*emerges from hiding*

I'd just like to say that I've never read EGS simply for the color. True, color is nice, but I've always considered it to be something extra that Dan was doing just for the heck of it. No, the reason I read EGS is because of the story, which Dan is very skilled at telling. No, I'm not sucking up here, either.

Anyway, my feeling is, the art style is still essentially the same, just uncolored. Is that really a deal breaker to you guys? If it is, then let me say that you're an awfully finicky bunch. If it isn't, then stop complaining, accept Dan's reasoning, and enjoy the fact that he's trying to put out comics on a three-per-week schedule again. Whether you're "satisfied" with the reasons Dan gives or not is, quite frankly, 100% irrelevent.

And that's the bottom line, 'cause Ranma said so.

:rootbeer:

I don't think anyone's saying that a lack of color is a "deal breaker" for them or that they won't read it now. All that's being done is a bunch of people expressing their own opinions. 'Cause that's what a forum's for.
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DANIEL: Okay. One, that's Star Trek; and two, it's ridiculous.
MARTIN: What's wrong with it?
CARTER: "The singularity is about to explode?"
MARTIN: Yes.
CARTER: Everything about that statement is wrong.
DANIEL: How exactly is having weapons at maximum going to help the situation?
MARTIN: The audience isn't going to know the difference. They love: "weapons at maximum."
MITCHELL: Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
TEAL’C: I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode.
MARTIN: Look, you guys may all know how things really work out there in the galaxy, but I know the film business. Explosions make great trailers. Simple fact. More explosions, better trailer. Better trailer, more viewers.


I have discovered that Death Note + Lucky Star = awsome.
Here's more proof.
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