[STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Nightranger on Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:40 pm

[edit]sorry for the double-post, everyone[/edit]
Last edited by Nightranger on Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MARTIN: What?
DANIEL: Okay. One, that's Star Trek; and two, it's ridiculous.
MARTIN: What's wrong with it?
CARTER: "The singularity is about to explode?"
MARTIN: Yes.
CARTER: Everything about that statement is wrong.
DANIEL: How exactly is having weapons at maximum going to help the situation?
MARTIN: The audience isn't going to know the difference. They love: "weapons at maximum."
MITCHELL: Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
TEAL’C: I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode.
MARTIN: Look, you guys may all know how things really work out there in the galaxy, but I know the film business. Explosions make great trailers. Simple fact. More explosions, better trailer. Better trailer, more viewers.


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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Shortgeek on Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:06 pm

Yeesh! I just joined the forums a few minutes ago, and I have to say. This one of the angriest fanbases I have seen.

Dan draws these comics as a hobby. Putting them online isn't his hobby, nor is selling merchandise. The merchandise is beneficial, but the point is -- he does this for his own pleasure. You should thank him for putting the comics online, for free, with less ads than some places. I mean, yes. The forum is the place to voice your thoughts, and clearly a lot of you thought that Dan should get somebody else to color his work. There was nothing really wrong with what was being said -- but it was very surprising to see such a hostile tone, all the same.

That being said, it seems to have cooled off by now. I'm glad that the comics are back, and although I liked the colored version and liked the colored style, two black and white strips a week is WAY superior to a colored strip every week. The story is why I read.

This'll be interesting, to see how it turns into a news story... and is Catalina's "what the" related to Merlin-like-guy?

It's nice to have new content again.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Chaos Priest on Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:01 pm

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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Nightranger on Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:34 pm

Shortgeek wrote:Yeesh! I just joined the forums a few minutes ago, and I have to say. This one of the angriest fanbases I have seen.

*sigh* Normally this is a pretty nice place, but every now and again something like this happens. Normally over a misunderstanding that seems far too trivial to have started it.
MARTIN: What?
DANIEL: Okay. One, that's Star Trek; and two, it's ridiculous.
MARTIN: What's wrong with it?
CARTER: "The singularity is about to explode?"
MARTIN: Yes.
CARTER: Everything about that statement is wrong.
DANIEL: How exactly is having weapons at maximum going to help the situation?
MARTIN: The audience isn't going to know the difference. They love: "weapons at maximum."
MITCHELL: Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
TEAL’C: I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode.
MARTIN: Look, you guys may all know how things really work out there in the galaxy, but I know the film business. Explosions make great trailers. Simple fact. More explosions, better trailer. Better trailer, more viewers.


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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby nitpicking on Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:45 pm

It's pretty much impossible for a biology teacher who owns nitpicking.com not to nitpick biology. Therefore: all vertebrate groups have color vision. Bony fishes, sharks, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, including the order Carnivora. Their color vision may not be as good as that of primates like us, but every group mentioned can distinguish yellow from gray, for instance. (Note that many birds have better color vision than primates for interesting evolutionary reasons.)

As to color comics: While the anger may have obscured it, I think even Dan didn't argue that color comics aren't good, possibly even preferable to the readers. It's just that he finds coloring unpleasant and time-consuming enough that for practical reasons and emotional ones, he won't be doing it for at least a while.

Phrased like that, can anyone really say that he's wrong? I honestly can't see how. I mean, some of the same people bitterly complaining about the end of color comics also bitterly complain about the slow pace ... meaning no offense at all to our host, I would like to see the end of Sister II before the end of the Obama presidency. (Joke, Dan, joke.)
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Darekun on Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:28 pm

DemonicAngel wrote:I kinda like this b and w style. It's...clean, if that makes sense. Also, it reminds me of the Comic Convention arc in the NP comics...a style which I quite liked. Also, there seems to be more focus on the characters, rather than having them merge with the backgrounds, due to it all being colour.

Must be personal - the opposite is my #1 complaint about the black & white. It all looks so flat, like a page of text...

But the Comic Convention NP arc wasn't like that. I'll be looking over it later in search of a reason, but just offhand, I'm guessing it's insufficient Z-variation in line width.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby DemonicAngel on Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:02 pm

Nah, the new style aint the same as ComicCon NP...just went back and checked. But it reminded me of my memories of the NP style...
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby CidGregor on Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:48 pm

That being said, it seems to have cooled off by now. I'm glad that the comics are back, and although I liked the colored version and liked the colored style, two black and white strips a week is WAY superior to a colored strip every week. The story is why I read.


While this is a valid point, and while I mean no offense to the artist, there is no guarantee that we WILL get two comics a week, based on recent history. It remains to be seen in the coming weeks and months whether there will be a consistently reliable update schedule as a result of this change; and to be blunt, major changes like this that have been made recently, most notably the switch to portrait layout and the change from greyscale to color, never really seemed to ensure that sort of stability for long, if at all. So....I guess we'll have to wait and see if the axing of color was really worth it, in this particular context.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby DemonicAngel on Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:13 am

Incidentally, it just occured to me, that while I do like the B&W, it would have been nice for the Sister II arc to have been completed in colour, and the B&W left until the start of the next arc. Of course, I realise that's probably impossible, due to us being approximately 65 comics in, with no sign of a halfway-point yet, but...ah well. I guess I'm finicky.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Stardrake_ on Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:50 am

Weird. Seems the post I made in this thread yesterday on camouflage vanished...

To summarise it, the main point of most forms of camouflage is to break up the outline, the the observer sees a bunch of colour splotches rather than the outline of a zebra or whatever. Actually blending into the background is an added bonus, but as most animals can't change their colours as easily as human soldiers can, they have a compromise scheme that works reasonably well anywhere they're likely to be.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Tricia on Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:50 am

The forum had some sort of weird hiccup yesterday morning, and about a half dozen posts were lost in the process, including one I made.

And a PM I supposedly got from horus...
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby CaliforniaDave on Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:41 pm

Okay. Because I must, here's my two cents worth.

When I started reading EGS at the beginning, I had real trouble telling some of the characters apart, especially Nanase and Ellen. As Dan's art evolved, that became less of an issue.

Then came color. Coloring in hair and clothes solved all those problems for me.

Now the color is gone, but the associations stayed. In other words, when I look at the B&W art my mind "fills in" colors.

Dan's reasons for not wanting to color - and for not wanting EGS to be a collaboration - make perfect sense to me. He has also stated his preference that fans not color in his art on a regular basis (IIRC, once in awhile was okay and often "annoyed" him). IMHO, it IS his strip, and therefore his opinion needs to be respected and and his preferences followed.

A suggestion: if someone MUST color and share with the class, what about doing it in private e-mail (if Dan is willing)? Send it to folks who are interested in looking at it, and that's all.

Oh, and for those who have difficulties with Dan's desire that this be a one-man operation, I have three words:

Calvin and Hobbes.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Tricia on Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:20 am

Bill Watterson also wasn't going to college while he was drawing C&H, and he got paid a *hell* of a lot more than Dan does.

And he was also better at it. No offense to Dan...but he's still honing his art. Watterson knew what he was doing, and stuck with a style once he got what worked.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Jake R on Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:58 am

Shortgeek wrote:Yeesh! I just joined the forums a few minutes ago, and I have to say. This one of the angriest fanbases I have seen.

Dan draws these comics as a hobby. Putting them online isn't his hobby, nor is selling merchandise. The merchandise is beneficial, but the point is -- he does this for his own pleasure. You should thank him for putting the comics online, for free, with less ads than some places. I mean, yes. The forum is the place to voice your thoughts, and clearly a lot of you thought that Dan should get somebody else to color his work. There was nothing really wrong with what was being said -- but it was very surprising to see such a hostile tone, all the same.


This place used to be one of the friendliest places on the web. You could say the weirdest things or share your innermost feelings and thoughts, and everybody tried to help the best they could. It's sad to see my feelings about what this has turned into voiced so clearly by someone who just joined. =/
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Tuitsuro on Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:08 am

Ranma_2k8 wrote:And that's the bottom line, 'cause Ranma said so.

:rootbeer:


That reminds me, I remember the Ranma hair controversy that resulted from instances of this;

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Where, because at that time Takahashi did not do her own colors and it was up to whoever was coloring that day at Shogakuan (sp?), the comic publisher in Japan. Purists of the manga generally would say that girl-Ranma's hair was black; Fans of the anime would say that her hair was red. It's just one of the problems you run into when you have a third party coloring your stuff; they're generally not going to stick to any one palette.


Also, yes, this place has become fairly hostile anymore, and I could pretty much point out to the day when it happened. But this is the way things are, I imagine it'll get better at some point.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Illusionist on Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:37 am

Do the Japanese not have numbers or something?
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Tuitsuro on Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:27 am

Illusionist wrote:Do the Japanese not have numbers or something?


The way I understand it, they basically went with 'whatever color we have most of at the time'. Since they were weekly prints, the artist probably wasn't given a forward copy for approval, so this was the result.

You still see this a lot in comic print, the Comic Curmudgeon does a bit every once and a while where he points out where the colorists for syndicated comics screw up.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Illusionist on Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:37 pm

I meant the title. Some Japanese writing I assume says "Ranma" and then a distinctly Western looking 1/2.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Tenebrais on Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:49 pm

Presumably they had something before arabic numerals came their way. But you have a point; I've never seen Japanese numbers, at least in places I'd expect them to be. I suppose I wouldn't actually recognise them if I did see any...

To take a total stab in the dark, I'd say arabic numerals ended up displacing whatever the Japanese used before, in the same way they displaced Roman ones.

Edit: A friend of a friend says they sometimes use arabic. Sometimes not. Depends on the situation.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Tuitsuro on Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:00 pm

Illusionist wrote:I meant the title. Some Japanese writing I assume says "Ranma" and then a distinctly Western looking 1/2.


Oh. Thought you meant, like, phone numbers... O_o;

I don't know about actual japanese numbers; all I can tell you is that they hate the number 4 for some reason.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Illusionist on Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:01 pm

I know that one. Shi is the Japanese for both four and death.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Nocturn on Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:59 pm

Jake R wrote:This place used to be one of the friendliest places on the web. You could say the weirdest things or share your innermost feelings and thoughts, and everybody tried to help the best they could. It's sad to see my feelings about what this has turned into voiced so clearly by someone who just joined. =/


I hear that the Mayhem forum still has the don't-ask-don't-tell policy going.
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby ChronosCat on Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:03 pm

I just remembered, wasn't this suppose to be the start of Sister II Part V?
(I doubt Dan is reading this thread at this point, but in case he is, I'm also curious as to how many "Parts" Sister II is going to have.)
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Darekun on Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:46 am

Illusionist wrote:I meant the title. Some Japanese writing I assume says "Ranma" and then a distinctly Western looking 1/2.

Japanese didn't have numerals per se until the arabic ones were copied from the west - of course, we didn't have them until we copied them ourselves. Numerals seem rare in languages; most just use words for numbers, like our "one", "two", etc. Japanese's words are "いち", "に", etc.

However, most of Japanese is ideographic kanji, and they do indeed have kanji for numbers: "一", "ニ", etc. (There are also things like "壱", an archaic kanji that also means "1", apparently still used in law.) These could be construed as numerals, but the Japanese don't seem to think of them in the same breath, and every kanji has(or had) a word-meaning. Whee :D

I'm still not sure what's supposed to be conveyed by the "½", though, it might just be Gratuitous English
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Re: [STORY 1/12/2009] And I had better not hear you singing!

Postby Tuitsuro on Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:36 am

Oh, well, it's 1/2 because the titular character changed genders and appearance when hit with either hot or cold water, due to a curse. Hence, male Ranma when doused with hot water, female Ranma when doused with cold. Ranma 1/2. As referenced by Greg here.
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