EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Tricia on Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:25 pm

Even in black and white, EGS is still going to be incredibly cartoony. There's nothing that can be done about that in the style Dan wants to use.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Gazing Rabbit on Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:03 pm

I disagree. I think that B&W EGS is (and always was) stylish, and the colors are making it cartoony.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Chaos Priest on Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:33 pm

Both the most recent NP strip and the most recent greyscale EGS strip look pretty cartoony to me. I don't think it's the color.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby BinaryWraith on Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:33 pm

nitpicking wrote:I can't tell if people are deliberately insulting Dan or just being unthinking. It's not pretty either way.

Dan: don't let it get to you.


I didn't think I was being insulting in noting that someone who has been a professional artist and illustrator for better than 30 years and who has two Hugo awards to his credit produces more complex artwork. If it came off that way, it was surely not my intention.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Tricia on Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:33 pm

As soon as the characters got eyes the size of beach balls, the hope of being non-cartoony was lost forever.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Tuitsuro on Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:53 pm

ForkBomb wrote:Also, it doesn't have to be black and white, old computer screens where green and black, and things like Count Your Sheep are blue & white.


Count Your Sheep is an interesting example, because not only is it usually blue; the artist also will change it to purple when he's showing a past event. (More specifically, Laurie's (the mom in CYS) childhood days)

As for being cartoony... depends on your perception. If you're into proportions and realism, then any discrepancy (ie. large eyes) will be percieved as cartoonish. But does that then mean that all abstract art is cartoonish?
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby nitpicking on Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:05 pm

B.T. Isaac wrote:
nitpicking wrote:I can't tell if people are deliberately insulting Dan or just being unthinking. It's not pretty either way.

Dan: don't let it get to you.


I can see how bringing up my own comic during a discussion about EGS can be insulting. Sorry.

I didn't mean you. I didn't mean most people in this discussion. Only certain ones.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby demonhunter on Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:37 pm

No more colours? Aww...

Now that that's outta my system: It's your comic, Dan. Do whatever the hell you want with it. I'll still read it regardless.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Goimez on Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:55 pm

Aww, no more color.
I'll admit that it ticks me off a tiny bit, but I know that by having no color, it may mean faster production, which makes me a lot happier :)
And besides the faster production, I've always thought the black & white strips looked much nicer.

Can't wait to see the next comic Dan :D
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Ostracee on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:07 pm

"...and then you'll shack up with an absolute cipher of a boy and a tearjerkingly pathetic girl who'll die pointlessly!"
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Nightranger on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:48 pm

DarkShive wrote:I'll say what I said before: if I'm not going to do EGS the way I want to do it, then it's not worth it for me.

Well, that is the bottom line, of course. If you don't enjoy making EGS, chances are both your update schedule and the quality are both going to suffer.

I'm still gonna really miss the color though. :cry:

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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby The Old Hack on Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:04 pm

BinaryWraith wrote:I didn't think I was being insulting in noting that someone who has been a professional artist and illustrator for better than 30 years and who has two Hugo awards to his credit produces more complex artwork. If it came off that way, it was surely not my intention.

*scratches head* Possibly not, but I have to admit that I fail to see how that in any way refutes the point I made earlier -- that use of black and white art can be very effective either as a medium in its own right or to obtain a specific mood or purpose in otherwise colourised surroundings. Also, even if Dan lacks the excellent Mr. Foglio's experience and accolades, I don't see why he can't choose to work in this medium if that is what he prefers.

One thing I do feel certain of: artists learn and improve the most from working in the mediums they like the best. We have seen how much Dan has grown as an artist in the bare handful of years or so that have passed since the first strips of EGS. If black and white art becomes his home, he may well achieve great things with it in another two dozen years. After all, the best way to learn how to use a medium to the fullest is to work with it. :)
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby CidGregor on Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:42 pm

To all the people who are using the argument that some of your favorite comics are black and white, including you, Dan Shive, I have only this to say:

It just so happens that some of MY favorite webcomics are color comics. Fancy that.

Just because some of your favorite webcomics happen to be black and white (or color for that matter) does not automatically make it a superior medium. It's an opinion and nothing more.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby DarkShive on Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:56 pm

Did I claim it's not subjective? That doesn't sound like me. First thing I usually do is claim stuff like this are matters of opinion. I've momentarily disrupted several heated geeky arguments this way.

So, yeah, it's a matter of opinion. Does that really need to be said? We're talking about art and what we like. When is that NOT a matter of opinion?
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Sotanaht on Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:26 pm

Excuse me while I de-lurk for just a minute to point something out... you probably wont see me again for a very long time, though that doesn't mean I'm not here.

It was specifically stated, by Dan Shive himself in a news post, that he was switching to color because, among other things, it would be faster.

Now he is saying that black and white is faster.

I do not disapprove of the decision either way, I just want to remind you to be careful of getting into a "grass is greener" situation.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby The Old Hack on Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:34 pm

DarkShive wrote:Did I claim it's not subjective? That doesn't sound like me.

*scratches head* It occurs to me that I may have sounded like I was putting colourised art down, and that was most certainly not my intent. Like Dan, my taste is of course subjective; more, there are colourised comics where the colour is not merely a mood device but an actual storytelling mechanism. Matt Wagners's Mage: the Hero Discovered springs to mind -- I cannot imagine it without the colour. What I was trying to say is that I believe that black and white is as valid a medium as colour is, no more.

So, yeah, it's a matter of opinion. Does that really need to be said? We're talking about art and what we like. When is that NOT a matter of opinion?

Basically if Will Eisner says it is good art. Then it isn't an opinion but the voice of God speaking ex cathedra :)
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby CidGregor on Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:41 pm

I was just tired of hearing people say "some of my favorite comics are black and white, so yay for black and white EGS." It's a flawed logic and I wanted to point that out because in the eyes of someone who thinks that black and white is the wrong direction for this comic, that's not an acceptable answer.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby The Old Hack on Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:23 pm

CidGregor wrote:I was just tired of hearing people say "some of my favorite comics are black and white, so yay for black and white EGS." It's a flawed logic and I wanted to point that out because in the eyes of someone who thinks that black and white is the wrong direction for this comic, that's not an acceptable answer.

That wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that it is a perfectly valid direction for Dan to go in. Whether he will do it well only time will tell, but I have confidence in him.

Also, it isn't a matter of logic, but as Dan pointed out, a matter of personal taste. I'm sorry if it isn't to yours, but Dan is the final arbiter in this matter and ideally his work should be to his taste at least.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby CidGregor on Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:09 pm

I'm speaking generally, not to you specifically.

And I'm aware of his preferences and the fact that it is his comic. That does not exempt him from criticism, positive or negative. My criticism is that the comic was, and would continue to be, significantly better in color.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Tuitsuro on Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:12 pm

CidGregor wrote:I was just tired of hearing people say "some of my favorite comics are black and white, so yay for black and white EGS." It's a flawed logic and I wanted to point that out because in the eyes of someone who thinks that black and white is the wrong direction for this comic, that's not an acceptable answer.


Well, I grant you, if there were a choice I'd rather have color than black ink, however; I'd also rather have some comic rather than nothing; and if the last few months are any indication, well, anything that helps Dan's production while he's in school...
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby CidGregor on Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:16 pm

That has nothing to do with the comic itself, that's the author's own life/preferences. I'm speaking strictly and objectively about the comic itself.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Nocturn on Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:30 pm

EGS tends to blur my time perception, but I am fairly sure there were several long hiati even before Dan started using colours. If Dan wants to do black-and-white comics from now on, that's cool, but I have no illusions that it will make EGS immune to long and semi-frequent hiati. For that to happen, Dan would have to finish college and turn into EGS into a full-time job. Right now the whole Life > Hobby thing will mean EGS will always fall victim to one hiatus or another.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby Tuitsuro on Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:36 pm

CidGregor wrote:That has nothing to do with the comic itself, that's the author's own life/preferences. I'm speaking strictly and objectively about the comic itself.


Yeah it does; Dan wants the comic to look good; and if he's not happy with it then his production is going to suffer. I agree it looks better in color; heck it looks a lot better in grayscale, but I'll be honest; from the way Dan's talking I'm more worried about actually having a comic to read than I am whether that comic has the full 'spit-and-polish' applied to it.
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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby horus on Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:59 pm

Uh-huh... I'm gonna run off at the keyboard again. Lots to say here, and I haven't posted in a while.

Since we're making a de facto poll out of this thread, I'll express an opinion and say I was just getting used to color.

Seriously, folks: If Dan says it's going to be black and white, then black and white it is. I suppose my eyes will just have to adjust again. Perhaps, as time passes, we will see the occasional color comic (such as Dan did during his earlier work, starting, I think, with the "Goo" story arc)?

Seldom are things as, ahem, black and white as we'd like them to be... maybe that is part of why EGS returning to black and white appeals to some?

I read a lot of the comics already mentioned here in addition to EGS, and I'll say this about that: I suspect that, like me, a lot of you read different comics for different reasons. I don't tend to compare the sheer incisive genius of Ishida-sensei's Sinfest to anyone else; nor do I compare Shive-sensei's work in EGS to others, at least not in a "this one is better than that one" sense - EGS is different, and I like it like that. I rather suspect a lot of us do.

Now, before I get too long-winded here, I wonder about certain recent story elements and how they will fare in a black and white world. Just to name a few:

1.) Pimp Raven would have had greatly reduced impact in a black and white comic. Just regular Raven himself, with his grayish skin tone, makes a stark contrast to his quaint and colorful everyday clothing - this effect would seem to me to be noticeably diminished in black and white.
2.) Bloodgrem is a lovely shade of green - how's that going to translate?
3.) Someone else mentioned Nanase's color magic clones? Yeah.
4.) I'll miss the plethora of anime hair colors from the color phase of EGS.

One last thing: about EGS being "Cartoony"? So? Some of my favorite comics are the old 1940s Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck cartoons we don't get to see on television any more. If you ask me (and I'm not saying you have), EGS is in good company.

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Re: EGS no longer in color [news Jan/10]

Postby CidGregor on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:06 am

You're missing my point, Tuitsuro. In the context of this particular criticism, I don't CARE what Dan wants or needs to be happy with his production and update speed. I am offering my opinion on the comic all by itself, taking absolutely no outside factors into account, and in that context, what I see is a sudden change from full color brilliance to a dull and lifeless B&W. And as you yourself just agreed to, I think the color look is significantly better.

Now if you want to to talk about Dan's production and preferring to have a comic to read at all than a comic with all the full-color 'spit and polish,' I have a whole other cornucopia of criticisms I could make. As Noxy already pointed out...

I have no illusions that it will make EGS immune to long and semi-frequent hiati.


Noxy's exactly right. We heard all this 'improved production' and 'it's more enjoyable to do it this way' talk before. When we went from landscape to portrait. From greyscale to color. What makes this time any different?

I don't mean to sound harsh and uncaring about Dan's personal life outside the comic, I really don't, but the more often this kind of thing happens, the less leeway I'm inclined to offer.
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