Font Opinions

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Re: Font Opinions

Postby DarkShive on Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:24 am

Color is faster than the way I used to do greyscale. What I am considering is like neither.

Actually, you want a good idea of what I'm considering? Look at recent EGS:NP
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby CidGregor on Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:25 am

That's....pretty much what I was afraid of. -_-

Well, it's still your comic, but....that plain B&W look is not what I would have hoped for.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Aeg'air on Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:29 am

I actually liked the black and white in the new EGS... I mean it gave it a different feel.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby CidGregor on Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:31 am

It also looks, for lack of a more descriptive or polite term, extremely half-assed.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby DarkShive on Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:37 am

Many of my favorite comics are done primarily in black and white. I like the look, and I like creating it. I also like that I have time for it.

By GOLLY do I feel motivated!
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Aeg'air on Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:58 am

CidGregor wrote:It also looks, for lack of a more descriptive or polite term, extremely half-assed.


I think it looks.. modern? It's better than the older NP stuff and although I like colour I don't think the new NP black and white would be too bad... but saying that by tuesday I might feel the exact opposite... Or not who knows.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Ineluki on Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:05 am

http://egscomics.com/Filler/d/20071207.html anybody?
I haven't changed my opinion regarding b&w. Yes, I read a bleeding ton of cool webcomics too, that are B&W.
However: for EGS I see a few very big disadvantages:
#1 demonstration: transformations. you do like these sequences, don't ya? ^^
#2 demo. the colors convey the upbeat humor of the comic on the first glance.
#3 artistic effects. susan here is an excellent example. yes, you can achieve this with b&w too, but it is so much harder and will likely cost more time in effect
#4 hair/fur (and we do have a lot of that now, don't we?). it'd really surprise me if that would be quicker in b&w than in color - especially when unshaded. and I mean unshaded color worked well for half a year too, right?!
#5 in recent strips you didn't even use dithering to simulate greys. just b&w. all skin is white, all hair is white, most clothes are white. so... very... limiting.

and that's just off the top of my head. Hey, sure, it's your comic, do what you like, but I really hope you know what you lose here.
And while I sure won't drop the comic over it, I might imagine that /some/ readers will.

Many comics which are striclty B&W have a much darker tone than EGS. I think that says... something.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Tricia on Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:25 am

*shrug* I read EGS for the story, not the pretty pictures. Count my vote that doesn't mean anything as a "Do whatever helps you get comics out faster, and still looking decent".
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby DarkShive on Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:36 am

I really shouldn't decide right at the moment. It was a decision made while in a terrible mood that I'm still in.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Tricia on Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:45 am

Always a good idea, that. Most (if not all) of my worst decisions are made when I'm in a bad mood.

It may not be a decision of vital importance...but it's still pretty important as far as the comic goes. I just advise (whatever it may be worth...) to stick with whatever you decide. It's your comic, and all, but I wanna see the next week in comic some time in the next decade or so. ;)

(Only a joke...so please don't take it personally or anything. But I do mean the "stick with what you decide" part. Get something you're happy with, and stick with it. Small changes are great and all...but EGS doesn't need to be perfect. You don't need to majorly overhaul the comic's look every 6 months. Little changes as it goes along work well enough, if you feel the need to change something, instead of reinventing the wheel, so to speak.

Just one bunny's opinion, though...)
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Aeg'air on Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:14 pm

Tricia wrote:Always a good idea, that. Most (if not all) of my worst decisions are made when I'm in a bad mood.

It may not be a decision of vital importance...but it's still pretty important as far as the comic goes. I just advise (whatever it may be worth...) to stick with whatever you decide. It's your comic, and all, but I wanna see the next week in comic some time in the next decade or so. ;)

(Only a joke...so please don't take it personally or anything. But I do mean the "stick with what you decide" part. Get something you're happy with, and stick with it. Small changes are great and all...but EGS doesn't need to be perfect. You don't need to majorly overhaul the comic's look every 6 months. Little changes as it goes along work well enough, if you feel the need to change something, instead of reinventing the wheel, so to speak.

Just one bunny's opinion, though...)


What she said... though I still say I like the new NP look more than the older grey scale stuff.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby DarkShive on Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:41 pm

I've had some coffee and EATEN something (hadn't eaten for about 16 hours), so I'm a bit less touchy. Still not at the top of my game, but better.

I hate the old grey scale look, or rather, I hate working with it. I like going back and seeing what I see, particularly once I started adding shadow effects, but it was frustrating to work with. Contrast, for one thing, was a big issue, and I'd wind up trying multiple shadings for characters/settings before settling on something, and then I'd have to find ways to cheat it later on.

I don't enjoy working in color with comics. There'll be one or two panels I'm looking forward to having in color, and the rest will drive me nuts. I don't like deciding on the color for a prop or background just to feel stuck with that decision later. It's something I hope to get better with in time, but for now, it's a source of frustration that eats up a considerable amount of my time.

I mentioned publishing before. I need to consider that A) I do want to publish more books, and B) it is considerably more expensive to do so in color. I'm not talking a little bit more, either. I'm talking a LOT more, as in "I'm not making a profit at all unless I sell them at $20+ and have half the pages per volume" more.

One of the big factors here is my own enjoyment when it comes to making the comics. I am putting them online and hope to profit from them, yes, but if I'm not enjoying it, I may as well be doing something else. Most anything else would pay better. That might change, but for now, I really should treat EGS as the "hobby with benefits" that it is. With that in mind, I need to do what I always told myself I was going to do with EGS:

Do what I want to do with it, and not worry about what others think.

That philosophy got EGS to where it is today, and yet I stopped doing that at some point. I started to care too much about outside opinions. Yes, critiques can help me improve my craft, but this is my comic, and if it's going to truly be as good as it can be, I have to be true to myself and be willing to annoy others with whatever I do with it because I sure as hell can't please everybody so I may as well make myself happy!

By golly, I actually feel better now. There's still plenty for me to feel iffy about, but I'm feeling better about a lot of things regarding the comic itself at least. I'm going to do some more work on the font, finish up some comics, and there WILL be Simpsons on DVD while I work because that's how I roll, dammit!
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby nitpicking on Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:55 pm

Glad you're feeling better.

Listen, you're going to do it your way. Letting people's opinions of STUFF THEY HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN upset you? Probably sub-optimal.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Ineluki on Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:59 pm

DarkShive wrote: I started to care too much about outside opinions.

And about bloody time you realized it. Here's hoping you'll roll with it, too.

@ publishing: yeah, I tried grayscaling some comics from '08... no good. At least not reversable to the old greyscale style of '07, mainly because of some things like Nanase's hair being lighter instead of darker than Ellen's and things like that... and your tendency to all-too-light skin tones... well, not that the normal to-greyscale converted image would look bad, mind you...
aaanyway.
I don't like deciding on the color for a prop or background just to feel stuck with that decision later.

I can smell the fear all the way across the ocean, you know? ;)
Shake it off! You cower from the future, fearing you will walk into a dead-end, while it's just about a bleeding prop! Don't let this control you.
...well, maybe I just can't relate. Colors are what I like most at art. ...and bloom effects :3
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Aeg'air on Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:13 pm

DarkShive wrote:By golly, I actually feel better now. There's still plenty for me to feel iffy about, but I'm feeling better about a lot of things regarding the comic itself at least. I'm going to do some more work on the font, finish up some comics, and there WILL be Simpsons on DVD while I work because that's how I roll, dammit!


Hear hear!

...

I now feel bad about my critique :cry:
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Tricia on Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:40 pm

There's always the option of doing the comics in color, but printing in B&W.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby DarkShive on Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:43 pm

Somewhat ironically, if I wind up doing the comic in B&W AND make an entirely non-faux font, I won't even need Flash for most of EGS. This counts as ironic because the entire reason I was considering a new font was so I could use it when I later upgrade Flash and lose access to the faux fonts, though it's made a bit less ironic given that the faux versions aren't available in Illustrator.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby DarkShive on Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:52 pm

Tricia wrote:There's always the option of doing the comics in color, but printing in B&W.

This is true, but it is a pain in the butt.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Aeg'air on Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:54 pm

I think it's been said if that happened the B/W wouldn't look very good and so would have to be redone...
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby DarkShive on Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:00 pm

Aeg'air wrote:I think it's been said if that happened the B/W wouldn't look very good and so would have to be redone...

It can be done, but you have to go back and do a lot of additional edits for every page.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Aeg'air on Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:08 pm

And that would be painfully boring.

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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Ineluki on Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:09 pm

DarkShive wrote:This is true, but it is a pain in the butt.

Image color, greyscale, 1 histogram adjustment.
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it all depends how high you intend do stack your goals, bro.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Raging Mouse on Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:25 pm

There are a lot of comics out there that do B&W comics most of the time, and then coloured comics for special occasions (such as it being sunday :P). Perhaps such a compromise would be worth considering?
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Aeg'air on Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:26 pm

Ineluki wrote:
DarkShive wrote:This is true, but it is a pain in the butt.

Image color, greyscale, 1 histogram adjustment.
ImageImage

it all depends how high you intend do stack your goals, bro.


Still doesn't seem quite right... or it could be blue Ellen distracting me.
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Re: Font Opinions

Postby Melvar on Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:30 pm

We're not paying here. Therefore, Dan is significantly less dependent on our opinions than otherwise.
This remains, whatever happens, the first and foremost webcomic in my personal list.
That said, I'd prefer color because I find it easier to convert from graphics back to conceptual space that way, and with smaller lossage.
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