[S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Tarvok on Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:15 pm

You do seem to criticize Tricia more often than many, Illusionist. Quite frankly, I never saw Tricia's unedited post, and was wondering what the hell you were talking about.

EDIT: lol, I just realized that, if you take the title at face value without knowing what the OP was about, these last few posts could be considered "on topic." This does, indeed, seem to be an "age old argument." :p
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Chaos Priest on Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:31 pm

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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Tricia on Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:38 pm

...except that it takes two to argue. I deleted my post specifically to avoid one.
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Bickendan on Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:16 pm

Nightranger wrote:
kyevan wrote:
Illusionist wrote:Lesbians, just because they're more practical than waffles. If you get stuck on a desert island, one waffle will keep you fed for about half a day. If you're stuck on a desert island, one lesbian contains enough nutrition for at least 2/3 days, more if she's fat.

Inb4 eating a lesbian pun.

Eh, the issue's going to be water, really. And I don't think lesbians burn well enough to do the desalination trick where you evaporate the water and then catch the vapor, and let it condense.

WITCHES, on the other hand...

There's a somewhat obvious solution to this, I think...

Exactly, but this raises the question: Does she weigh the same as a duck?


...


Um, is that a demonic duck?! *runs*
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Shadowhamster on Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:47 pm

Wow, you guys do like to get uppity around here don't you. >_>

Not trying to start a fight, just saying. I myself am not 'straight' and I could see this more as silly meandering. Frankly, getting offended at taking a comic strip a level out is silly.

It's also silly to then try and get in a head biting competition over who is right, what was done, and who is on the bottom rung thus putting the poster on the highest rung.(Typically where I sit...but that's beside the point. :p)

I call for a slightly different way of thinking. I'm new to these forums, and would appreciate it if people could think before throwing righteous indignation left and right. It would be nice if someone could take that immense shield down for a second and say something more long the lines of "Hey, this seems like a pretty insensitive post guys. I understand your joking but try to be considerate please?". And I'm not pointing anyone out here, fighting fire with fire is bad!

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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Nightranger on Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:16 pm

:rootbeer:
MARTIN: What?
DANIEL: Okay. One, that's Star Trek; and two, it's ridiculous.
MARTIN: What's wrong with it?
CARTER: "The singularity is about to explode?"
MARTIN: Yes.
CARTER: Everything about that statement is wrong.
DANIEL: How exactly is having weapons at maximum going to help the situation?
MARTIN: The audience isn't going to know the difference. They love: "weapons at maximum."
MITCHELL: Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
TEAL’C: I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode.
MARTIN: Look, you guys may all know how things really work out there in the galaxy, but I know the film business. Explosions make great trailers. Simple fact. More explosions, better trailer. Better trailer, more viewers.


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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Man on the Moon on Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:24 pm

Nightranger wrote::rootbeer:


No thanks, I've already got a nice buzz going.
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby ChronosCat on Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:15 am

== Spring, 2006 ==

Chronos: It seems they have some slim pickings for movies there. The same could be said quite often in the real world, but it isn't usually so obvious how bad the offerings are.

== Sept, 2008 ==

Crystal: Personally I would have liked to see the Bionic Lesbians movie... mmm... Bionics... :D

Nocturn wrote:The issue that I, personally, have with this is that treatment of lesbians as some kind of mystical, fabled being.

I don't think this really counts as reducing lesbians to some sexual object, but it still has the characteristic of making a person seem like, well, something inhuman. Comparing a human to pastries does that thing, where it is hard to not take offense. I fully realise you are just joking here, but try exchanging "lesbian" with "African" or "Jew" and if it still seems just as funny.


The people joking about that here are merely extending the joke in the strip in question; I'm surprised you and Tricia haven't criticized that yet in this thread.

Incidentally, while I think you two are overreacting to the jokes in the thread, I don't approve of the objectifying you refer to and dislike this strip for that very reason.
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Tricia on Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:21 am

I'm surprised you and Tricia haven't criticized that yet in this thread.
I don't really dig the whole "reaction threads to 6-year-old comics" deal.
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Shadowhamster on Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:45 am

Tricia wrote:
I'm surprised you and Tricia haven't criticized that yet in this thread.
I don't really dig the whole "reaction threads to 6-year-old comics" deal.


I like El Goonish Shive for a reason that I really want to put out there. It really takes steps to look at gender AND sexuality from the whole spectrum, and while doing so never takes itself too seriously. I think this is a noble goal, and one that in it's whole it succeeds in doing.

Sitting around comparing lesbians to waffles is not a past time that I'm going to put anywhere on my resume, but as an extension to the joke already placed in the strip, I really am not going to try and criticize the people taking part in the act. To me, perspective is important when considering any act. To that note, I can only surmise that the majority of the people her are a)somewhat open to alternate sexualities, b) somewhat open to alternate genders, or c) ok with people who are. I choose not to guess how many people would fit into either category.

I myself am intersexual, and have dealt with a large amount of being "picked on" and abuse, some of which stems from the fact that in my early years, I did not KNOW that I was intersexual, and once I did, it wasn't something easy to deal with. I became reclusive and reluctant to make friends, because illogically, I thought of myself as a freak. I didn't find out about the fact that I was intersexual until complications around my 19th birthday.

Raised mostly as a boy, I don't look completely boyish, and certainly don't act boyish, and would have LOVED to have some say so as to where I wanted to stand, but as a baby, I couldn't put up much of a fight.

My point being that it is important to remember intent, as well as action. Tricia, correct me if I'm wrong, but it was the action that led you to have a problem with the thread as the humor got more juvenile and you felt took steps to the 'Too Far' category. I'd also say that you probably omitted your original thoughts due to realization that the intent was never to go too far.

We're on a forum, so it's hard for us to see each other as anything but anonymous beings, and thus when certain things go a certain way, we can all seem a bunch of greyish blobs and thus forum threads like this could easily be taken wrong by some people. I also think it's definitely worth noticing that when we read and percieve things, we can take things other than how they were intended upon their original submission.

Thank you for allowing me to share this. I thought it worth sharing a little bit about myself before I say that I personally have not had a problem with this thread. My original plea was based upon the idea that understanding carries things farther by and large than outright indignation, or frustration. It is not always easy to maintain understanding, but it is a worthy and lofty goal. Normally I am much more of a smart ass when it comes to forums. For this note I thought it worth taking a more serious light, so thank you for hearing me out.
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Illusionist on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:01 am

Uh, could you explain what "intersexual" means? That's a new one for me.
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Shadowhamster on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:05 am

Illusionist wrote:Uh, could you explain what "intersexual" means? That's a new one for me.


Hermaphrodite. Not a boy, not a girl by genetic distinction, having aspects of both and thus unclassified.
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Illusionist on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:19 am

I would have said Transsexual.
The book is almost always better than the movie. You could have no better case in point than FROM HELL, Alan Moore's best graphic novel to date, brilliantly illustrated by Eddie Campbell. It's hard to describe just how much better the book is. It's like, "If the movie was an episode of Battlestar Galactica with a guest appearance by the Smurfs and everyone spoke Dutch, the graphic novel is Citizen Kane with added sex scenes and music by your favourite ten bands and everyone in the world you ever hated dies at the end." That's how much better it is. - Warren Ellis.

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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Shadowhamster on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:26 am

Illusionist wrote:I would have said Transsexual.


Ah, but transsexuals aren't necessarily born that way, not to take away from anyone else's plight, but the difference is that an intersexual is physically both sexes at birth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexual
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Illusionist on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:27 am

So that's what you meant by elements of both. I thought you meant boy's brain girl's body or vice versa.
The book is almost always better than the movie. You could have no better case in point than FROM HELL, Alan Moore's best graphic novel to date, brilliantly illustrated by Eddie Campbell. It's hard to describe just how much better the book is. It's like, "If the movie was an episode of Battlestar Galactica with a guest appearance by the Smurfs and everyone spoke Dutch, the graphic novel is Citizen Kane with added sex scenes and music by your favourite ten bands and everyone in the world you ever hated dies at the end." That's how much better it is. - Warren Ellis.

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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Shadowhamster on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:32 am

Illusionist wrote:So that's what you meant by elements of both. I thought you meant boy's brain girl's body or vice versa.


I could classify myself as transsexual in addition to being intersexual. Considering that I never really had much interest in being a boy, and upon discovering that technically, I'm not, I have taken steps towards the other direction.

However, that is a separate issue and one that came well after my youth. I made the decision to start heading more towards a female orientation after the complications occurred and I had a very honest doctor who explained to me what was happenning. Before that, I would say I simply had trouble fitting in, and where as the psychology of it all is very interesting, I really don't feel like discussing it tonight. Perhaps another time, as it brings up stresses I've since let go. It's also largely beside the point.
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Raging Mouse on Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:18 am

You will find that this forum is relaxed enough on the subject of gender to make it optional and up to the poster's whim. We aren't binary about it either. However, some issues touched upon here tend to be sensitive and may cause people to be offended merely because they think they should, rather than any actual offensiveness involved. It's just one of those less-desirable byproducts of the forums you have to live with.
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby Nightranger on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:01 pm

Illusionist wrote:Uh, could you explain what "intersexual" means? That's a new one for me.

Darekun posted a really interesting article on this subject a while back on the "No Bisexuals" thread.
MARTIN: What?
DANIEL: Okay. One, that's Star Trek; and two, it's ridiculous.
MARTIN: What's wrong with it?
CARTER: "The singularity is about to explode?"
MARTIN: Yes.
CARTER: Everything about that statement is wrong.
DANIEL: How exactly is having weapons at maximum going to help the situation?
MARTIN: The audience isn't going to know the difference. They love: "weapons at maximum."
MITCHELL: Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
TEAL’C: I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode.
MARTIN: Look, you guys may all know how things really work out there in the galaxy, but I know the film business. Explosions make great trailers. Simple fact. More explosions, better trailer. Better trailer, more viewers.


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Here's more proof.
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Re: [S.T.O.R.Y. 2/16/02] The age old argument

Postby nitpicking on Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:22 pm

I have Lesbian friends. Interestingly, one of them was complaining to me just yesterday.

Not about my attitude toward her or her girlfriends and compatriots. About stupid, petty, unnecessary arguments poisoning what was supposed to be a fun activity. (Really.)
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