[STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

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Re: Re:

Postby Man on the Moon on Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:54 pm

kyevan wrote:Oh, the Catholics think it's a choice, all right, just in a different way. They see it as a choice between doing the "right" thing and repressing it (likely causing massive psychological damage - self hate - and probably failing anyway) or doing the wrong thing, getting kicked out of their little (OK, really big) club, and thus going to Hell instead of Heaven. I fail to see how that's much better than believing you can choose to be attracted to men or to women.


I am not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure that 'suppressing homosexual urges' is supposed to be like 'suppressing the urge to murder' or 'suppressing the urge to bang your sister' or 'suppressing the urge to curse' or 'suppressing the urge to eat fifteen McGriddles and a twelve-pack of beer'.
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Re: Re:

Postby Turey on Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:57 pm

Man on the Moon wrote:'suppressing the urge to eat fifteen McGriddles and a twelve-pack of beer'.


Oh man, if that's a sin, I'm soo going to hell.
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Re: Re:

Postby The Old Hack on Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:19 pm

Turey wrote:Oh man, if that's a sin, I'm soo going to hell.

Look me up when you get there, I'll be in the sulphur pool reserved for snarky and pervy old hack writers who aid and abet sexual deviants like people of non-heterosexual orientations. :shifty:
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Nightranger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:34 pm

Stardrake_ wrote:Before anyone mentions Nanase, my own family has a lot of people - and I would probably include myself - who appear outgoing while the people who know them well know they are naturally shy. Nanase seems to be showing a lot of the same signs - brash and outgoing when she's in control of the situation, but quick to retreat into her shell in reaction to things that make her uncertain.

Heh, I'm the polar opposite. I'm shy, quiet, and soft-spoken around most people and generally don't start conversations with people I don't know. But around my good friends I'm much more outgoing.

Tricia wrote:Even if Mrs. Kitsune *does* see homosexuality as immoral, which we don't know for certain...it *is* possible that she'd love an accept Nanase anyway.

Yaknow...love the sinner, hate the sin...all that...

True, and while my personal impression is that such a thing is more unlikely than not, I'll admit that it's based mainly on opinion and has little to solidly back it up. All we have as evidence of how vehement Mrs. Kitsune's opinions on homosexuality are would be two or three possibly exagerated/misinterpreted comments made by Nanase.

The Old Hack wrote:
Turey wrote:Oh man, if that's a sin, I'm soo going to hell.

Look me up when you get there, I'll be in the sulphur pool reserved for snarky and pervy old hack writers who aid and abet sexual deviants like people of non-heterosexual orientations. :shifty:

Eh, I think one could take just about anything and find someone who claims that it's a sin.

Hehe, this talk has reminded of a phrase I read somewhere: "Smile, there is no Hell!" :)
MARTIN: What?
DANIEL: Okay. One, that's Star Trek; and two, it's ridiculous.
MARTIN: What's wrong with it?
CARTER: "The singularity is about to explode?"
MARTIN: Yes.
CARTER: Everything about that statement is wrong.
DANIEL: How exactly is having weapons at maximum going to help the situation?
MARTIN: The audience isn't going to know the difference. They love: "weapons at maximum."
MITCHELL: Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
TEAL’C: I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode.
MARTIN: Look, you guys may all know how things really work out there in the galaxy, but I know the film business. Explosions make great trailers. Simple fact. More explosions, better trailer. Better trailer, more viewers.


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Postby Free Radical on Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:02 pm

kyevan wrote:Oh, the Catholics think it's a choice, all right, just in a different way. They see it as a choice between doing the "right" thing and repressing it (likely causing massive psychological damage - self hate - and probably failing anyway) or doing the wrong thing, getting kicked out of their little (OK, really big) club, and thus going to Hell instead of Heaven. I fail to see how that's much better than believing you can choose to be attracted to men or to women.

My understanding of it is that the "right" thing is choosing not to act on it rather than choosing to repress it. It might seem a small thing, but it'd be a lot easier for Nanase to get her mother to accept it if she's starting from that position than a position that Nanase is actively choosing to be attracted to girls, so yeah, it does seem a whole lot better.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Chaos Priest on Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:08 pm

Nightranger wrote:Hehe, this talk has reminded of a phrase I read somewhere: "Smile, there is no Hell!" :)

Don't forget this quote though. "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

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Illusionist wrote:Diane seems a good deal closer to Rhoda than she is to Lucy. To the extent that she has a pet name and has called her "cute".

That's more than enough evidence to launch a ship in my book.

Wait, you need evidence to ship characters‽

Well no, technically not, but it does help to get others to board the ship. Otherwise they'll just likely point at various holes in the hull and the rats making a break for the shore. The Diane/Rhoda ship is completely unlikely, although I personally see their relationship as purely platonic, with any blushing on Diane's part coming from embarrassment rather then arousal.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby nitpicking on Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:55 pm

I believe the Catholic position on homosexuality is that sex is always sinful, with the exception of marital sex at least arguably meant to produce kids (and not on holy days, etc.). So being gay is not sinful, but having gay sex is, because it's always extramarital.

Remember, Christianity is very anti-sex in general--read Paul's letters some time.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Nightranger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:23 pm

That used to be true, but I think (most) versions of Christianity have relented somewhat about that. (It's not a very good way to attract fallowers. :wink: )
MARTIN: What?
DANIEL: Okay. One, that's Star Trek; and two, it's ridiculous.
MARTIN: What's wrong with it?
CARTER: "The singularity is about to explode?"
MARTIN: Yes.
CARTER: Everything about that statement is wrong.
DANIEL: How exactly is having weapons at maximum going to help the situation?
MARTIN: The audience isn't going to know the difference. They love: "weapons at maximum."
MITCHELL: Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
TEAL’C: I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode.
MARTIN: Look, you guys may all know how things really work out there in the galaxy, but I know the film business. Explosions make great trailers. Simple fact. More explosions, better trailer. Better trailer, more viewers.


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Here's more proof.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Darekun on Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:45 pm

Daremo wrote:Diane, I don't think so, Rhoda, highly suspect.

I dunno, Diane's views on men are a bit of a transparent closet...

Also, from what Dan's said about religion, I don't think Mrs. Kitsune's disgust with homosexuality is religion-based.

nitpicking wrote:Remember, Christianity is very anti-sex in general--read Paul's letters some time.

Yeah, too bad we ended up with the Founder Effect favoring a prude sect, rather than one of the ones that apparently took "love thy neighbor" in an, er, biblical sense :J

Nightranger wrote:That used to be true, but I think (most) versions of Christianity have relented somewhat about that. (It's not a very good way to attract fallowers. :wink: )

The problem with that is the quasispecies model applies, so the hardcore anti-sex memes survive.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Nightranger on Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:01 pm

Darekun wrote:
nitpicking wrote:Remember, Christianity is very anti-sex in general--read Paul's letters some time.

Yeah, too bad we ended up with the Founder Effect favoring a prude sect, rather than one of the ones that apparently took "love thy neighbor" in an, er, biblical sense :J

Your comment about a "prude sect" reminds me of something my 11th grade world history teacher said: something about America being where Europe sent all the religious wack jobs they didn't want. :P

Darekun wrote:
Nightranger wrote:That used to be true, but I think (most) versions of Christianity have relented somewhat about that. (It's not a very good way to attract fallowers. :wink: )

The problem with that is the quasispecies model applies, so the hardcore anti-sex memes survive.

I'm not sure I fallow you here. (I have only a vague understanding of meme theory and, while it was somewhat understandable, I'm not sure entirely how the quasispecies model article you linked to applies to sociology in this case.) But what I think you're trying to say has something to do with the survival of this idea that sex is is some way shameful, needing of being repressed, whatever in our current time being due to lasting impressions made by this extremist viewpoint. Am I at least in the same time zone here?
MARTIN: What?
DANIEL: Okay. One, that's Star Trek; and two, it's ridiculous.
MARTIN: What's wrong with it?
CARTER: "The singularity is about to explode?"
MARTIN: Yes.
CARTER: Everything about that statement is wrong.
DANIEL: How exactly is having weapons at maximum going to help the situation?
MARTIN: The audience isn't going to know the difference. They love: "weapons at maximum."
MITCHELL: Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
TEAL’C: I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode.
MARTIN: Look, you guys may all know how things really work out there in the galaxy, but I know the film business. Explosions make great trailers. Simple fact. More explosions, better trailer. Better trailer, more viewers.


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Here's more proof.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Darekun on Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:31 pm

Nightranger wrote:Your comment about a "prude sect" reminds me of something my 11th grade world history teacher said: something about America being where Europe sent all the religious wack jobs they didn't want. :P

Yup, "prigs and prisoners" as the saying goes...

Nightranger wrote:I'm not sure I fallow you here. (I have only a vague understanding of meme theory and, while it was somewhat understandable, I'm not sure entirely how the quasispecies model article you linked to applies to sociology in this case.)

I recommend you look more into memes if you're interested in sociology, culture, and/or heavily-evolved meme complexes like religions.

Nightranger wrote:But what I think you're trying to say has something to do with the survival of this idea that sex is is some way shameful, needing of being repressed, whatever in our current time being due to lasting impressions made by this extremist viewpoint. Am I at least in the same time zone here?

No, you're still assuming a singular Christianity...

Every christian has their own copy of Christianity, and they're all different. They comprise a quasispecies, and each sect comprises a sub-quasispecies. There are still hardcore anti-sex extremists out there. And if you look at a small sect, the presence of such extremists isn't required to be continuous - they may have one, that individual dies of old age and they don't anymore, then a new one mutates from the rest of the quasispecies, because Paul's letters and other such hardcore anti-sex extremism is still in the meme complex. So Christianity regularly throws up these mutant memes, and it's therefore part of the quasispecies, even if the mainstream doesn't embrace it.

Species vs. quasispecies is actually a continuum; most species show some quasispecies effects. For example, in many species of territorial birds, individuals tend to prefer terrain similar to that their parents claimed, and even terrain their grandparents claimed but which their parents were outcompeted for. Group specialization supports this to some degree.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby nitpicking on Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:38 pm

Not all the religious refugees were loons even by the current standards, much less today's. Paul Revere (formerly "Rivoire") was descended from French Huguenots (Protestants), as was Alexander Hamilton.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Illusionist on Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:07 am

Nightranger wrote:That used to be true, but I think (most) versions of Christianity have relented somewhat about that. (It's not a very good way to attract fallowers. :wink: )

The Church of England has gay bishops, IIRC.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Nightranger on Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:24 pm

Darekun wrote:
Nightranger wrote:But what I think you're trying to say has something to do with the survival of this idea that sex is is some way shameful, needing of being repressed, whatever in our current time being due to lasting impressions made by this extremist viewpoint. Am I at least in the same time zone here?

No, you're still assuming a singular Christianity...

Every christian has their own copy of Christianity, and they're all different. They comprise a quasispecies, and each sect comprises a sub-quasispecies. There are still hardcore anti-sex extremists out there. And if you look at a small sect, the presence of such extremists isn't required to be continuous - they may have one, that individual dies of old age and they don't anymore, then a new one mutates from the rest of the quasispecies, because Paul's letters and other such hardcore anti-sex extremism is still in the meme complex. So Christianity regularly throws up these mutant memes, and it's therefore part of the quasispecies, even if the mainstream doesn't embrace it.

Species vs. quasispecies is actually a continuum; most species show some quasispecies effects. For example, in many species of territorial birds, individuals tend to prefer terrain similar to that their parents claimed, and even terrain their grandparents claimed but which their parents were outcompeted for. Group specialization supports this to some degree.

Ah, now I see where you were going with that. I didn't think about how religion tends to mutate based on, for example, the merger of how it's taught to a person by various sources and that individual's own experiences and way of looking at life while I was reading about quasispecies, so I didn't make the connection. Thank you for explaining.
MARTIN: What?
DANIEL: Okay. One, that's Star Trek; and two, it's ridiculous.
MARTIN: What's wrong with it?
CARTER: "The singularity is about to explode?"
MARTIN: Yes.
CARTER: Everything about that statement is wrong.
DANIEL: How exactly is having weapons at maximum going to help the situation?
MARTIN: The audience isn't going to know the difference. They love: "weapons at maximum."
MITCHELL: Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
TEAL’C: I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode.
MARTIN: Look, you guys may all know how things really work out there in the galaxy, but I know the film business. Explosions make great trailers. Simple fact. More explosions, better trailer. Better trailer, more viewers.


I have discovered that Death Note + Lucky Star = awsome.
Here's more proof.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Stardrake_ on Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:58 am

Illusionist wrote:Also, Stardrake, what has Ethan ever failed at? He built a functioning robot with intelligence roughly equal to C3PO out of an Xbox, founded an apparently extremely popular holiday, he somehow keeps his job even though he says and does things to customers and coworkers (including his boss) that should get him fired, he can somehow not only keep Lilah but get her to marry him...the only thing he's ever failed at is being a father, and that's Lilah's fault anyway. He seems pretty perfect to me.
Actually being respected by his roomies? Not being a complete and utter berk? In a recent occasion, realising having a poisonous scorpion loose in the apartment is a bad move?

Building a robot is pretty par for the course for webcomics, especially tech-based ones. Winter-een-mas and keeping his job could be a function of being good enough at marketing when he is functioning properly to make up for his periods of disfunctionality (it's just that it's the latter we see because it's funnier). And even Mike from Something Positive found an SO.

And the fact that I don't think anyone would disagree that he IS disfunctional shows that he's far from being perfect.

Also, compare to Bluey from Dragon Tails.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby ChronosCat on Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:41 pm

Responses to the thread... A bit late, but what can I say? My time travel is like the TARDIS - sometimes one can achieve pin-point accuracy, but most of the time one is lucky to get in the ballpark.

Adele wrote::-What was the human-like monster?

A thought that occurred to me - Damion was a human-like monster. Probably not the answer, but still an interesting thought.

DarkShive wrote:Even if one believes homosexuals choose to be attracted to the same sex in real life, which I think is ridiculous, the comic follows my beliefs on the matter. As should be apparent after the previous sentence, I do NOT believe people get the luxury of picking and choosing who they are physically attracted to, and that's reflected within the comic.
It's self evident that an author's choices can determine the nature of the reality of their creation. However, I don't think I've ever thought about the fact that the author's view of the real world also affects the nature of the created reality.

Turey wrote:I think that, when Mrs. Kitsune finally finds out about Nanase being a lesbian, she'll just see it as another aspect of the rebellion that Nanase has been having against her mom, and that it'll go away with time and that there's nothing to worry about as there's no way she'll find another homosexual girl in this small town.
Considering the number of students in MNH and MNS (especially combined) I have a hard time seeing how Moperville could be considered a "small town".
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby nitpicking on Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:48 pm

ChronosCat wrote:Considering the number of students in MNH and MNS (especially combined) I have a hard time seeing how Moperville could be considered a "small town".

A big city has dozens of high schools, or more. There are over 70 high schools in ONE BOROUGH of New York City.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high_schools_in_New_York_City
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby The Old Hack on Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:55 pm

nitpicking wrote:
ChronosCat wrote:Considering the number of students in MNH and MNS (especially combined) I have a hard time seeing how Moperville could be considered a "small town".

Well, it wasn't really meant to be descriptive of Moperville, I think, but rather as a parent attempting to rationalise a child's homosexuality or bisexuality by saying 'what are the odds of him/her actually finding anyone here?'

A big city has dozens of high schools, or more. There are over 70 high schools in ONE BOROUGH of New York City.

NYC has more than twice the population of my home nation. Whenever I visit the place, I am always kind of :o .
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby ChronosCat on Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:49 pm

nitpicking wrote:
ChronosCat wrote:Considering the number of students in MNH and MNS (especially combined) I have a hard time seeing how Moperville could be considered a "small town".

A big city has dozens of high schools, or more. There are over 70 high schools in ONE BOROUGH of New York City.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high_schools_in_New_York_City


There's a lot of room between "small town" and "big city".
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby WalkerBoh on Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:47 pm

Consider, for example, the high school that I went to, which served no fewer than seven different "small towns", and possibly more that I simply don't recall offhand.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Nightranger on Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:28 pm

I've seen so called "towns" that consisted of less then a half-dozen buildings.
MARTIN: What?
DANIEL: Okay. One, that's Star Trek; and two, it's ridiculous.
MARTIN: What's wrong with it?
CARTER: "The singularity is about to explode?"
MARTIN: Yes.
CARTER: Everything about that statement is wrong.
DANIEL: How exactly is having weapons at maximum going to help the situation?
MARTIN: The audience isn't going to know the difference. They love: "weapons at maximum."
MITCHELL: Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment.
TEAL’C: I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode.
MARTIN: Look, you guys may all know how things really work out there in the galaxy, but I know the film business. Explosions make great trailers. Simple fact. More explosions, better trailer. Better trailer, more viewers.


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Here's more proof.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby WalkerBoh on Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:41 pm

Indeed. My hometown hasn't hit 300 residents yet, I do believe.
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Darekun on Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:39 am

A bit of Googling turned this up:

the city of McHenry[...] has about 25,000 residents and is located in north central Illinois 60 miles northwest of Chicago. McHenry has two high schools, two junior high schools, and one elementary school. Each high school (grades 9 through 12) has 1,400 students and the junior high schools grades 6 through 8) have 850 students each.


Assuming linear scaling(which isn't likely), Moperville has close to 36K residents.
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Postby Free Radical on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:34 am

Darekun wrote:Assuming linear scaling(which isn't likely), Moperville has close to 36K residents.

What numbers are you using? I seem to recall Dan saying ~3,000 students per school, which makes slightly more than 50,000 residents assuming linearity. Anyway, the city I'm living in has about 90,000, so I'm not inclined to call that a small town...
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Re: [STORY 8-25-08] Immortals History

Postby Raging Mouse on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:39 am

New York, the 12th largest city in the world, a true megapolis, has areas called uptown, downtown and greenwich village (one of the densest populated areas, wikipedia tells me). I suspect logic has no place in urban names, either.
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