El Goonish GURPS

It means "The Goonish Shive."

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El Goonish GURPS

Postby Nasrudith on Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:58 pm

I felt it was time to move the discussion of my progress on rendering the main eight and support from out of the comic thread.

So far I have managed to develop the following starting with everyone's favorite recreational gender swapper, Tedd. However without his equipment he is nearly mundane as Sarah so I started on his uryuom technology first.

I have stated out his belt as follows.
Transformation Belt:[39 points] Alternate Form (35 points for the cat template)
With the following limitations: Cost Fatigue 5 (to represent the pain of using it) Can be stolen by trickery, (Item based restriction), DR 2 Machine Note its size modifier I decided was -9 as it was a belt netting no discounts.
Now for the Transformation guns where I had to get a bit creative with the limitations.
To represent the fact that Tedd would have a back up and two identical powers with a chance of breakage would be worth less than taking it twice I halved the value of all item based restrictions on the transformation gun, marked with an asterix.
Cosmetic Morphing Device (2x)[145 points] Morph (40 points of form)
Enhancements: Ranged, Unlimited Forms
Limitations: Retains shape, Size modifer -4*, Can be stolen by quick contest*,DR 2 Machine*, Malfunction (13)*

At first I was considering using the transformation gun as a positive affliction but then I realized the fundamental flaw in that there was no way to resist the transformation gun once hit by it. I decided then that the transferable nature of the devices is covered under can be stolen.

Now it comes to stating Tedd. I decided on a Strength score of 8 seeing as how Tedd has demonstrated his strength or lack of when struggling moving chairs. His DX and HT I decided were average. Now his IQ is a confusing aspect, he works with alien technology and is able to reverse engineer the transformation gun to be able to create his belt. His IQ score I guess to be in a range of 12-16 at the very max. His will however I think should stay at 10 or perhaps lower. So far I have him pegged at 14.

Fun facts about Tedd: Without disadvantages he is currently worth more points than the iconic mage.

Any assistance will be welcome whether its pointing out aspects to stat or evidence that I got something wrong to mechanical advice from more experienced players and GMs.
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Postby Eddie Vinci on Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:09 pm

hmmm... I never heard of this Gurps thing, but I have for the longest time been working on D&D adaptations of the standard cast... grace has been the hardest, only because I haven't done the TF mechanics.
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Postby twilightdusk on Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:51 pm

....mind explaining what GURPS is? I never heard of it.
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Postby Nasrudith on Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:42 pm

GURPS stands for Generic Universal RolePlaying System. It's purpose is to have one set of mechanics that can be used for any setting including a unique one of your own creation. It has four base stats Strength, Dexterity, IQ (Note that this is not the same as real world IQ numbers!), and Health. Only standard six sided dice are used. It's a point based system where taking disadvantages and quirks increases your total number of points spendable. Quirks are usually very minor disadvantages. Note that despite the name disadvantages a few things typically regarded as good such as honesty and compassion because they limit the player. Advantages are key to powers like those I mentioned in the first post.

Its very good for mixing things that generally would have no place in most typical setting such as psionic ghosts of robots or alien vampire mages. Hence a good fit for El Goonish Shive where which has aliens, a few magic users, immortal spirits who don't seem to take mortals that seriously, and other groups of weird powers.

Go here for details from the offical site.
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Postby Ostracee on Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:52 pm

It seems like it would be more intuitive just to double the sum to represent a backup. After all, they each have all the advantages and disadvantages; in theory, he could go TF akimbo.

Also, Tedd has high TL points from knowing how to program that thing. I'm going to say that just the technological aspect is TL11, for fifteen points in a TL8 setting; if it were all-tech, I'd bring it up to TL16. I'd also say he's "attractive," for another four, and speaks "broken" Uryuomoco to bring it to an even 20.
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Postby Nasrudith on Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:36 pm

While I considered it I didn't think TL boosts fit for him. Its described as a requirement to have lived in a higher TL society for a while to raise TL, Tedd doesn't know uryuom medicine nor is he effectivly clueless about our electronics because of it Hence I treated it as powers granted by a technological means. Unless he went on "an extended European vacation" on the Uryuom home planet he wouldn't qualify.

I would say that uryuomoco knowledge comes two forms, unknown and native seeing as there are no books on the language. The language teaching I'm not sure how to cover if I were to create basic "races" of Seyenllou and uryuoms.

Attractive sounds like a good thing for him especially considering it applies equally to men and women. I know that all of the main except perhaps possibly Grace have social stigma (youth). Tedd probably should have a few minor reputations for certain things like being known as the kid who brought the goo to life and all of the mocking and bullying he received.

Also I'm unsure how to handle Grace's social issues due to being raised in a lab. Most likely no culture familiarities or "The Nest", and Clueless to represent her knowing way too little. Seeing as she thought kiss and make up was literal and didn't understand Mr. Verres's proverbs and only seemed to know one that was most likely uryuomoco in origin (Corn that isn't corn.) Pitiable is an obvious choice of an advantage, especially from Sarah being unable to stay mad at her naked and writing a goodbye note. Also it suggests that Lucy has Callous. Now what appearance should she have? It's difficult to tell what the score should be in a comic.

The thing I am the least certain of is what the IQ scores of the main eight should be. I guess that Elliot and Ellen are probably 10.Sarah I'd guess is 10-12 approximately. Nanase I'm guessing at least a 12. Susan I'd guess is 11-16 as she is intelligent but I'm not sure a bout the extent. Justin I'm unsure about I'd guess a 10-12 for him.
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Postby Nerik on Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:45 am

Ok, just some quick thoughts before I go:

I'd be tempted to give Tedd some levels in the Science! skill, also, in GURPS 4 tems the TF guns and related technology are definately 'Superscience' (TL:^) which is the GURPS 4 tech level for 'stuff we currently think is impossible or we simply don't have a clue how to do' like FTL or time-travel etc.
He'd also get some level of Security Clearance (probably at the 10 or 15 point levels).

Now I wonder what the Infinity Inc. code-name for the EGS-verse is :wink: :lol:
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Postby yreomyr on Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:59 am

Nerik wrote:Now I wonder what the Infinity Inc. code-name for the EGS-verse is :wink: :lol:


"One big awkward moment."
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Postby Nasrudith on Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:57 am

yreomyr wrote:
Nerik wrote:Now I wonder what the Infinity Inc. code-name for the EGS-verse is :wink: :lol:


"One big awkward moment."


"Oh **** we're too late to do a cover up the powers already know!"

Actually it could be "WTF - 1" if they were and classified as a weird parralel after an encounter with an uryuom prankster when a team returned with completely opposite genders, even the robot.

Now I'm currently a bit confused for what reputation Tedd should get due to being known as the guy who brought the goo to life. So far he hasn't received any "You're the freak who bought the goo to life!" reactions so far although two people recognized him as such and thus knew him for his scientific knowledge (ironically he was not responsible for it). What category would a reaction bonus to knowing that he brought goo to life be?

So far I've given Tedd the following skills.
Electronics Repair TL8 (considering TL8^) IQ+2: represents the fact he's been working on the TFG for years and has fixed and modified it numerous times.
Mathematics Applied IQ -2: Just got as a prerequisite for the following
Engineering (Electronics) TL8 (Considering TL8^): IQ to represent that he is designing his own technology and the belt had to come from somewhere....
Computer Operation TL8 IQ+1: Not only is this everyday knowledge but he needs it for CMD programming (considered easy enough not to require programming skill.)
Research TL8 IQ: A standard student skill that would not be out of line for Tedd or anyone except perhaps Grace.
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Postby Nerik on Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:48 pm

Infinite worlds stuff:

I'd say the EGS-verse(s) are members of what Infinite Works calls a 'Skerry' - a cluster of closely linked parallel universes where travel between members is (reletively) easy, what travel into or out of the skerry is hard. So actually getting there could be a bit difficult.

But, hypothetically, if they did, Infinite Unlimited tend to name parallels after what they notice first about a parallel - which would probably be the Uryuoms, and even then only if they manage to see through Mr. Verres cover-up techniques (Infinity do employ psi or magicly active agents). Another thing they'd notice pretty quickly, and which would have them putting the EGS-verse on the 'restricted' list - is, as Nasrdith pointed out, the locals can detect parachronic activity!.

OTOH, Infinity have found much wierder parallels - like Madlands (a low tech world terrorised by insane gods based upon the cast of 'Winnie the poo'), and the United States of Lizardia, for instance.

Tedd's Skills etc.
I'd give him levels of Gadgeteer, perhaps even Quick Gadgeteer (although he's only really done something to warrent this once, and it didn't work very well).
Security Clearance I've already stated.
I'd also likely give him levels in the Wierd Science skill (p.228) (rather than Science!).

I'm not sure that the reputation 'the kid who brought the goo to life' would be a reaction bonus :wink:

Magic and ASMA techniques
As Dan has implied that these are both manifestation of the same effect I'd treat them both as 'Magic Powers' using the same proceedure as used for Psi Powers (page 254-257) but with a Magically Awakened Talent (that doubles as Ki Talent), and a 'Magical Power'power modifier. (However, I don't think we've seen any general way of shutting down either magic abilities or ASMA techniques other than disabling the character generating them).
These abilities can be powered either by using Fatigue (burning calories) or by the users spiritual energy reserves (Energy reseves are in the Powers book, in brief, they are extra fatigue points brought as an 'energy reserve' at a cost of 3 points per point of energy. This could have the Abilities Only limitation (-10%)

Enough for now....
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A Cookie. (Warning. May contain nuts.) (I like Nuts)
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Postby DracoDracul on Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:20 pm

I have never really played any role playing games but this sounds fun
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Postby Nasrudith on Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:49 pm

I'm leery about gadgeeter as written for Tedd, so far he has only made things based off of uryuyom technology which is so powerful it costs character points not money. Judging by the costs Tedd would probably need Susan's mom or the government directly as a patron just to be able to afford it.

Weird Science would work pretty well for Tedd, far better than what I had with electronics repair and engineering. I guess it would require a cinematic interpretation if I were to give Tedd just Weird science instead of Electronics related skills and applied mathematics.

So far I have given Tedd the following Disadvantages and Quirks:
Quirk Level Delusion: I cook better as a girl.
Quirk: Likes (Transformation): A bit captain obvious but still.
Reputation Girly Looking: (Okay its more appearance but still) -2 reaction from either most youth or just Moperville North (treated as a large group)
Enemy (Tony): Judging by Tedd's current point value (284 points!) unless Tony's secretly an ubermensch of a mundane he's worth only -2 points.
Skinny: Fits our shrimpy Tedd, combined with the ST of 8.
Oblivious: Tedd has had several really socially unobservant moments. He was the last of the eight to know about Nanase and Ellen even after witnessing obvious signs, he doesn't see the point in everyone wearing a uniform (arguably for comedy but still), and he started the uniform policy by completely misreading Susan. It fits like a glove.
Social Stigma (Minor): He's only 16-17 enough said.
Secret (Live in girlfriend.): Embarrassment level secret that would damage his reputation further if it got out.
Weak Will (Enough to bring him down to 10 will): Tedd is hardly disciplined or strong willed. Debatable if it should be down to 9 will.
And new advantages:
Patron (12) (Equipment up to wealth level and grants abilities to represent the ultratech he gives Tedd with minimal interventionist to represent the fact that he generally only intervenes in dire situations or when it is his job.
Security Clearance (Weird stuff): Allows access to all government weird stuff.
Tedd's Glasses: Grants the following for his eyes limitations stealable with a DX check and DR 2 Machine.
* Infravision, switchable.
* Telecommunications (limitations:video, send only)
* Telescopic vision 5 (limitation: nearsighted while active to represent downsides of magnification)

Perception lowered down to 12.
Electronics Repair lowered down to IQ.
Removed Electrical Engineering and applied mathematics.
Granted weird science to IQ (A very hard skill by the way.)
Added 1 skill point of driving automobiles.

I've made some progress with Grace. Her advantages and disadvantages so far are:
Morph: 104 points for templates (based off of the current value of Omega Squrriel)
Modifers: No memorization (+50% as unlimited also has it but with the abilty to transform into any machine thus it should be cheaper), Form mixing (with a added restriction that she be limited to less than or equal to 104 points worth +50%), Scanning (Need CMD to learn) -15% because it also limits the points values of her new forms. Retains shape except for squirrel (a combination of retains shape and the point cost for a separate alternate form of squirrel) -5%
Lightning Calculator: We saw what she did to the poor math test.
Pitiable: Some in comic support for it. Sarah when angry at Grace couldn't stay that way when she walked in on her naked writing a goodbye note.
Mr. Verres became like a father to her quickly. So far she has proven hard to hate so it fits. Also the fact even her boyfriend Tedd describes her as cute and not beautiful fits as well judging by the description of Pitiable.
Attractive: Judging by Dan's descriptions of relative weights and cup sizes she's most likely attractive.
Pacifism: Cannot Kill and Self Defense Only. A custom made flaw that fits her nature, it gives back 25 points. May have its value tweaked later.
Clueless: As I mentioned earlier she knows little about society and the only proverbs she knows is probably uryuom in origin (Corn that isn't corn.)
Secret (Lives with boyfriend): This would be bad for her reputation if it got out and she'd be referred to as quite a few of four to five letter words words.
Dead Broke: One I am definitely less sure about. The only thing that she owns for herself is the green hairband. Everything else is the result of the charity of Mr. Verres and a desire for her not to wear his son's clothes all of the time. On the other hand the sourcebook says not to allow richer PCs to bankroll poorer ones. Perhaps a lower level of poverty like poor or struggling would work. The question is should wealth be based upon guardians or personal wealth? Grace probably has nothing in her bank account if she even has one. If it is personal wealth then everyone except perhaps Susan would have struggling (Elliot and Ellen might have poor and Susan would probably have average or comfortable.) One way to handle it would be to give them 20% of the wealth level for equipment under rules of settled equipment buying. I haven't started equipment lists yet, Tedd's would be in all electronics, his "mad science uniform", and clothing for transformation (mostly women's).
Weak Will (Enough to lower it to 10 will): I don't think she demonstrated exceptional will yet hence the same value. In light of the latest comic involving her running out of the history room crying it may be lower.
Grace only has only points in "skills" of broken Japanese, native uryuomoco, and IQ-1 in General Mathematics, fitting for someone sheltered and naive. Expect a lot of defaulting. I gave her 15 IQ and 12 Perception.
I'm unsure of whehter she deserves any appearance modifiers.
Fun fact: So far Tedd and Grace have points values of 285. This makes them stronger than three iconic characters; Dai Blackthorne, Professor Headley, and Louis D'Antares.

@Nerik: Ironically no one has ever had a bad reaction towards Tedd over the goo. Grace sought out Tedd because he was known as the guy who brought goo to life, and Mr. Vertuck was probably going to offer him some shady things for the goo hall monitors.

Edits: Spotted a rather unfortunite implication for the justifications for pitiable involving Tedd's dad being under attractive. So far Mr. Verres hasn't proven to be attracted to teenagers, yet at least.
Last edited by Nasrudith on Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Stardrake_ on Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:38 am

While I'm not familiar enough with the system to know just how restrictive Pacifism:Total Nonviolence is, that it requires a justification of her fighting the Goo suggests that it may be too far - it's not the only time she's shown a willingness to fight, including against Damien, suggesting that she take a battle form to fight her 'brothers', and possibly even including the attempted mugging in the alley. She certainly has some strong reluctance to using violence that's probably worth counting, but it's a far cry to refusing to fight anything that isn't an automaton, or even anything that isn't sentient.
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Postby Nerik on Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:55 am

Nasrudith: I was thinking Gadgeteer almost entirely based upon his attempt to build a 'cosmic energy generator' out of mostly bits of household junk - OTOH, it didn't work very well (but it did work, slightly). We have no info on how long it actually took him to build it though.

Good call on the 'goo' reputation though.

Stardrake_: On Pacifism - I'd follow the suggestion in the book and give everyone either 'Reluctant Killer' or 'Cannot Kill' - for Grace I'd give her a combination of 'Cannot Kill' and 'Self-Defence Only' (she definitely has 'Cannot Kill').

Further Fun Fact: They also have points values greater than Xing La - whose a human/water-rat hybrid :)
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My Newbie Kit (thanks BtEtta):
TF gun.
A Squirrel teddy.
A Cookie. (Warning. May contain nuts.) (I like Nuts)
Six cans of unlabelled Soda.
A Quantum discombobilator disguised as a CD of department store Christmas muzak
A half-trained invisible undead fish
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Postby Nasrudith on Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:28 am

Nerik wrote:Nasrudith: I was thinking Gadgeteer almost entirely based upon his attempt to build a 'cosmic energy generator' out of mostly bits of household junk - OTOH, it didn't work very well (but it did work, slightly). We have no info on how long it actually took him to build it though.

Good call on the 'goo' reputation though.

Stardrake_: On Pacifism - I'd follow the suggestion in the book and give everyone either 'Reluctant Killer' or 'Cannot Kill' - for Grace I'd give her a combination of 'Cannot Kill' and 'Self-Defence Only' (she definitely has 'Cannot Kill').

Further Fun Fact: They also have points values greater than Xing La - whose a human/water-rat hybrid :)

The only reason I chose that was because the rules forbid taking multiple versions. I guess that -25 points non-lethal self defense would be a good level. Now I also have to guess what level of telepathy she has and what fatigue cost I should assign it. She passed out after disarming a mugger yet is able to fly in Omega form. Although if I remember correctly she probably lost 2-4 FP due to transformation since it was before the TFG fixed her transformation.

Now I have granted Grace Telekinesis 12 with a limitation of -10% due to the FP 1 cost per second. It may be worth a bit more but I'm reluctant about overdoing it due to the fact that Nanase and Vladia were the only ones knocked unconscious during painted black.

Because of this project I now imagine comic story arcs with OOC chatter and players mentioning what they want to do. Now I will present the templates I have created so far.
Catform [32]
ST +1 [10]
HT+1 [10]
Sharp claws [5]
Sharp teeth [1]
Fur related advantages
DR 1, flexible [4]
Perk:Fur (Protects from sunburns) [1]
Temperature Tolerance 1 [1]
Omega Squrriel [104]
ST+2 [20]
DX+2 [40]
Sharp claws [5]
Striker (Tail), piercing damage, limitations: Directly behind only, [4]
Damage resistance (fire only) 10 [30]
Affliction (Negates regeneration (fast), follow up to claws and striker. [20]
Damage resistance 1, flexible [1].

I will need to create a seyennlou racial template sometime due to the way morph rules work. Although due to their rather diverse nature I'm wonering if I should even bother with differentiating it beyond the ability to transform and unlocking telekinesis. With modifications made because of minor template changes Tedd is now 267 points while Grace is 291 points because of her telekinesis and decreased value of pacifism.

Now also I wonder how I should handle sparring, while Elliot and Nanase did fight neither of them ended up hospitalized or in the need (explicitly) of any ki healing. Cinematic sparring rules perhaps that state that in a deliberately sparred fight that HP lost returns afterwards completely or at 85% perhaps unless low blows are taken (i.e. hits to the vitals, face, groin) or that it recovers at the rate FP does?
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Postby ChronosCat on Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:24 pm

Nasrudith wrote:As I mentioned earlier she knows little about society and the only proverbs she knows is probably uryuom in origin (Corn that isn't corn.)
Maybe I'm remembering something else, or maybe I just came up with an explanation in my head for it, but I seem to recall someone saying "corny" and Grace being all confused. The next comic (if this was a comic) skipped the actual explanation, but presumably what would have come was something about "corny" not referring to corn. ...If this exchange is not my imagination, then that would be the explanation for Grace's "Corn that isn't corn" reference.
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Postby Nasrudith on Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:39 am

ChronosCat wrote:
Nasrudith wrote:As I mentioned earlier she knows little about society and the only proverbs she knows is probably uryuom in origin (Corn that isn't corn.)
Maybe I'm remembering something else, or maybe I just came up with an explanation in my head for it, but I seem to recall someone saying "corny" and Grace being all confused. The next comic (if this was a comic) skipped the actual explanation, but presumably what would have come was something about "corny" not referring to corn. ...If this exchange is not my imagination, then that would be the explanation for Grace's "Corn that isn't corn" reference.

I don't remember that happening in the comic, although I haven't found it casually looking through comics, although that would be a good explanation.

Anyway with Grace and Tedd I will start work more on some campaign guidelines.

Seyenlou: A generic version of this would come in two forms, one with access to transformation guns and those without access. Thus I will list them seperatly.

No TFGs used:Lesser chimera would have an alternate form for their animal and a mid form. All transformation would cause FP loss to pain roughly on the order of Tedd's belt for lesser chimera. High pain tolerance or numb would not stop FP loss in itself however, although it could be a justification for lowering the cost to greater seynellou levers. Greater seyenllou should suffer something more along the lines of 3-4 FP per shift unless they are in an especially bad mix like Vlad was before becoming Vladia. For lesser chimera granting lower appearances to their midforms would not be out of line due to their more animalistic appearances. Lespuko heritage is a requirement for forming mixing enhancement. if you are in fact Lespuko linked they should be able to buy an omega form of their original form with antiregeneration afflictions similar to what Grace has. If you have not bought it yet then that just means nothing has been stressful enough for the character to trigger their omega animal form yet.
TFG Used: As above but disregard all references to FP loss and replace references to Alternate form to morph with the restriction of retains shape. They should however take an alternate form just for their animal. Take the enhancement no memorization and the trigger limit.

Recommend Disadvantages for lab raised seyenllou include: Berserk, Bloodlust, Clueless, Oblivious, Enemy, Pacifism, and Secret.Incompetence quirks would also be appropriate for those who are new to human society.

If there is a player character in a campaign with a TFG or you plan on introducing it they should either start out exposed or make two versions of their character sheet, one with TFGs and one without. Note that the one without must be identical except for the rules, and yes that will mean that temporarily they will have a lower point value. If chimera are set up under a No TFGs used campaign and later are changed they should go into an immediate points debt that all points are set towards and be allowed to take negative qualities related to other events with a sensible explanation of why that the GM must approve. Developing a phobia towards fire, nightmares, and pacifism for no reason after getting transformed wouldn't be acceptable. However if the character had received the transformation as a reward for killing another Master of Fire knockoff from the department that Mr. Verres works for receiving the disadvantages as a result of trauma of the battle would be okay.

Given the nature of El Goonish Shive character development through buying off or buying appropriate advantages and disadvantages should be encouraged with GM approval of course. GMs and players are advised to use common sense in this process.

On secrets: For the purposes of El Goonish GURPS any government suppressed secret is effectively either bought off or a quirk at best. Note that this must be something worthy of cover up and something that can be believably yet another bit of classified information.
In general anything continuous about the character is concealable with the exception of uryuom or supernatural involvement. Being an alien-squirrel-human hybrid designed to slay a fiery regenerating megalomaniac, or having a hobby that consists of tinkering with alien technology is a government secret, but not being a closeted lesbian. Note that suppressed secrets are revealable by the player but generally shouldn't except to DMPC close friends or fellow PCs.
Note that insuppressible secrets may still be bought off if proper measures are taken. If Tedd and Grace were to buy off their secret that would mean that Grace was living with someone else or that they aged such that their secret went from a particularly juicy bit of reputation ruining gossip to a tame tidbit that most wouldn't bat an eyelash at. Although Nanase would be out of luck for getting rid of her closeted lesbianism in any way other than coming out or being outed.

Another important thing to note is that uryuom related secrets that the government doesn't know about are more likely to be higher levels, an imprisonment level secret would fit for a seyennlou raised in a lab who is going to be judged unfit to enter society due to mental issues. Although one who isn't a public threat like Grace, discovery shouldn't even bother with a secret as a disadvantage as the worst thing that would happen would being inconvenienced with psychoanalysis and questioning while they write cover ups to explain that no, that wasn't a werewolf scrounging in a residential garbage can, just a dumpster diver in costume trying to steal social security numbers.

When I have more time I will write an introduction to magic and perhaps take a stab at anime style martial arts.

Shivian Magic
As I mentioned earlier the magery system doesn't fit El Goonish Shive, or even the alternative magery system. Thus magic is best handled as super powers and psionics. There are a few rules for powers made magical spells however. Note that the term magician here refers to any spellcaster regardless of what they call themselves a wizard, witch, sorcerer or sorcereress, thatumologist, magician, or miracle worker.
1."Magic is never free."Spells should always have a FP cost either continuous or once to activate the spells. Players can also use character points to reduce FP cost of abilities but never to the point that they don't use any of it. However they cannot reduce a spell to being free.
2.You cast what you are.":The appearance of spells in their book is not a conscious process, your emotions and actions determine what a magician cast. If There are two general styles of handling this type of magic
n the game. At character creation magicians can and should already know spells that act as bits of characterizations of how they were in the past. There are two ways to handle new spells in game.
a. GM Controlled: Players practice magic usage in game and ask that character points be set aside until they develop a new spell and ask for a rough points cost for it to activate (i.e. I want to learn a new spell when I gain 30 character points). GMs should chose something appropriate and useful for the character. This is a more true to the comic way although it may be less satisfying to magicians
b. The player uses magic in game and chooses powers for the GM to approve as appropriate or inappropriate for the character and their recent actions. This grants more control to players but may affect the feel of the game if a magician can choose mostly what they want despite it being a unconscious process.
What is appropriate for spells?
Spells should fit the characterization and personality of the magician. To paraphrase Nanase "It depends on who the caster is and how they act."
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Postby Stardrake_ on Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:35 am

Again, I'm not familiar if that's standard GURPS terminology, but I tend to cringe at anything that seems to encourage the use of DMPCs. I'd just leave it as 'may choose to reveal it to close friends' - thus leaving it open to be considered to refer to other PCs or NPCs who happen to be close friends of the character.

Of course, if the PC (or NPC) turns out to be not so trustworthy after all... I presume GURPS already has rules in place for dealing with a secret that is revealed?
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Postby Nasrudith on Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:01 am

I included DMPCs statement because it might end up being a valid option when you try to run a game with only three players. Anyway secrets when revealed cause the player twice their value in disadvantages, mostly in the form of social stigmas and bad reputations. For most purposes uryuoms and uryuyom heritage is a secret that if you want it revealed to the general public you need to start a campaign about it where the players goals is to reveal the aliens next door. The seyennlou secret is a type of secret that only is revealed if the DGB learns about it.

I've managed to create a ASMA technique, to represent different levels of it take more or less points. GMs are advised to put limits to the amount of damage a technique can do, they should be strong attacks not instant death to all that oppose them. Right now I would give a rough guideline not to do over twice the damage of the karate skill (Note to those unfamiliar with GURPS, karate is the standard name for punch-kick damage dealing martial arts.)

Tamashi Gekido: Innate Attack (crushing): Costs Fatigue 3, Area of Effect 2 yards, emanation, double knockback, flexible, total modifiers: +40%.

While it certainly doesn't seem like crushing damage at first, it certainly does cause knockback (demonstrated by when Elliot sent Nanase across the mat) and thus this type fits the best.

Edit: I really shouldn't post updates late at night, removed accidental double post.
Last edited by Nasrudith on Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nasrudith on Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:50 pm

While I have been pretty busy I did get a few ideas for optional house rules that would fit will El Goonish Shive.

Lighter Fights: During any fight scene one can be knocked down to the first death test without needing any medical attention to survive or rolling for HT. In fact HP will heal like FT up to half of the HP of the injured foe without first aid. Roll normal once reduced to -2xHP Given first aid this rises to 80%. This is applied to all enemies except perhaps truly evil or monstrous ones such as Damien to make it so that one doesn't have to worry as much about killing on the conscious. Note however that this only applies to crushing damage however, every other type works as normal. GMs may wish to reduce the value of cannot kill or all forms of pacifism except total. Repeated blows to the skull however should be treated as lethal of damage and not get speed healing, one knock out blow to the head should be allowed per session per person with lighter fights in effect, although a headache is appropriate when they wake up. Crippled limbs should receive a HT roll appropriate to the situation with a bonus, if a success occurs it's not crippled after the fight. If it's a failure it should be a neutered temporary crippling only healing once one gains enough HP back that it's no longer crippled. On a critical failure roll HT again; if it's a success it's temporary as normal on a failure it's lasting: something got sprained or bones were broken by freak chance. Surgerys likely to follow

I've also thought of a way to handle wealth levels for young characters: Low wealth but parents as an advantage (usually).

Parents would serve as a resolving measure as a combination of the following:
* Independent Income for enough for an allowance and to cover the living expenses along with lower wealth levels to represent more realistic wealth levels.
* Additional Social values for whatever relationship they have for them and effects it would lead to. (Nananse's secret.)
** Patron if they're particularly powerful aside from that. Definitely the case for Mr. Verres. Parent patrons have a bit of an added advantage for teenage hijinks in that when they fail heir appearance roll they're busy or out of town. Stereotypical teen wild parties or other hijinks anyone? Abusing this (and getting caught) too often may provoke them into getting someone as a house sitter.
** Ally for less powerful parents who can still be useful.
** For the especially dysfunctional your parents can even be an enemy! Particularly meddling parents could be watcher intent, anything higher would be downright abusive.

Alternatively one can just downright ignore finances as anything but fluff for the younger based campaigns. Most of the focus is on other stuff anyway.

On Lethal Weaponry: For any youth based game usage of weapons should be taken very seriously as in real life. Even beating a bully with a baseball bat would be pretty major. Despite their great damage output guns will likely lead to serious consequences even when used wisely (against monsters instead of humans, seyennlouc, and uruomoc) and would be likely to still face trouble even for using it let alone possessing, if only for "where the hell did those kids get guns!" factor. Melee weapon usage against monsters is just as good as unarmed combat against them in terms of acceptability.
Last edited by Nasrudith on Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: El Goonish GURPS

Postby Darekun on Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:47 am

EDIT: Oops, sorry about the necromancy, thought this was just in Mayhem...



Sweeet. Now that I think about it, GURPS is one of the few universal systems to support gritty…

"Corn that isn't corn" is indeed her misunderstanding of "corny", from this strip. (Thank Oh No Robot for that!)

Energy reserves are already limited to abilities in a single power, so no further limitation for that. And Nanase seems to have one, per this strip.

Re wealth, I'd say that being supported by a parent or guardian is just having a Patron with the Equipment enhancement, and base the kids' wealth on what they currently own. Yes, they can get more stuff via their parents/guardians, but that's just activating their Patrons. I'd say Mr. Verres and Ms. Pompoms grant the +100% level, and the other parents grant the +50% level. The others are probably also below the "powerful individual" level, so 5 points base maybe? See the bottom center of B20 for more about handling parents.

I'd say Tedd's Will is lower than Grace's... and I'd say something's wrong if his point total isn't significantly lower. I'd probably target about 200 points for him, and about 400 points for her. She's no General Shade Tail, but she is his alternate.

The "extra points for more powerful forms" for Morph(and Alternate Form) doesn't take enhancements or limitations, just that 90%/100% multiplier.

Re sparring, I'd say the stun-damage rules are available, but nobody uses them in a real fight.

Re magic, yeah, Hawthorne magic totally doesn't fit, I think Powers magic is the way to go. (It's more balanced, too.) I'd say that setting aside points with the GM as final arbiter is the best, with the suggestion that GMs pick something the player pointed out unless they actively disagree. That way, a player could pick something they want and grind that activity(rather than just grinding, as Nanase did).
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Re: El Goonish GURPS

Postby Nasrudith on Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:55 am

Don't worry about necroing, it's better to keep a "hub" section like this active than create a new topic about it unless it totally died. Also it seems I made a typo in my previous section. It's fixed now.

Thinking about it I really low balled Grace's stats for physical forms. After getting more data from Dan I realized that Damien has at least very fast regeneration that regains 10 HP per second and maybe unkillable I given Dan's comments about "if there's enough of him left to regenerate he'd be one grumpy Gus" judgging by that he has regrowth too and wouldn't stay down even if he took tons of bullets. His fire form obviously negates it while active along with damage over time which I'm unsure how to do with disadvantages. Maintence perhaps of constant fuel? Grace's lespuko claws apparently reduced his regeneration to just 1 hp per second. Thinking about it omega squirrel should be at least 14 ST if not higher and maybe higher DX and base speed. I'm aware of how modifiers work with shape shifting. The fire resistance probably needs bumped up there as well appropriately enough to be able to survive Damien's flamethrower but unable to survive a full fledged pyrokinetic fireball. Speaking of which I also should try writing up Damien who has an ally group of Grace's brothers; unwilling of course. I doubt he deserves any enemy disadvantages as while quite a few people hate him none of them hunted him down until Elliot was kidnapped and thats more consequences of in game actions then anything else. Full write up will come later when its not so late. Also I didn't quite use FT costs right technically, I'm wondering if I should just keep it with the minor rule bending to treat a transformation as an instancious effect instead of a continous one or come up with my own value for it.

Looking through the characters books struggling is the new average for student based EGS. (As opposed to DGB, magician mobsters or whatever one comes up with for an EGS campaign premise.) I'm not entirely sure that patron really fits for every parent, even with a custom ultra wimpy patron. I highly doubt that the Dunkels come even close to their son and daughter's in point values, let alone 150% so the lowest level wouldn't work that well as written.

Anyway some quick math of life styles:
Expenses for normal lifestyle: $600
Starting wealth: $20,000

Everyday Normal High School Student: 4 points back
- Wealth: Struggling -10
- Independent Income (6) : +6
- No net income or expenses. 4 points could be used to add in a car, or more monthly money.
However this system begins to break down with lower incomes unfortunately.
Poorer Student:
Wealth: Poor -15
- Independent income (15): +15
Yep that's a problem alright, my idea was broken from the start.
One crucial flaw to the system I suggested turns out to be that less wealth is worse for points value. Looking through the books an alternate way to handle it would be a 1 point claim to hospitality. This has the advantage of less book keeping, more simplicity and allowing for greater flexibility of wealth. For right now I favor claim to hospitality as I'm uncertain about patron. Of course that doesn't prohibit any other parent related advantages and disadvantages.

Oh by the way can you tell me where I can find existing stun damage rules at?
Last edited by Nasrudith on Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: El Goonish GURPS

Postby Kazarack on Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:20 am

Page 28 GURP Lite has rules on being 'stuned'

"someone will be stunned if he takes greater than half his HT in one blow
if you are stuned all your active defences are at -4 until your next turn.
At that time, roll against basic HT to weather you recover.
A successful roll means you can act normally on that turn. A failed role
means you are still stunned an stand there mindlesly... the stunned
state continues untill you canm make your HT roll and snap out of it.
You may act again on th turn yo rolled succsefully and shake off the daze"

also listed

"Mental Stunning
Someone who is supprised or soked may also be menatlly 'stunned.'
The ffects f this sort of stunning are just athe same, but you
must make you IQ roll, rather than your HT roll, to snap out of it.
Your not Hurt - your confused"

-- GURPS Lite Page 28, Steve Jackson Games, 2002

I can see the second one playing a large role in the game :)
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Re: El Goonish GURPS

Postby Darekun on Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:35 am

Nasrudith wrote:I'm aware of how modifiers work with shape shifting.

Sorry, must've been my bad math, or a revision difference.

Nasrudith wrote:I doubt he deserves any enemy disadvantages as while quite a few people hate him none of them hunted him down until Elliot was kidnapped and thats more consequences of in game actions then anything else.

Yeah, the only Enemy of his I can think of, he bought off when he captured The Nest...

Nasrudith wrote:Also I didn't quite use FT costs right technically, I'm wondering if I should just keep it with the minor rule bending to treat a transformation as an instancious effect instead of a continous one or come up with my own value for it.

FP costs are underrated as a limitation anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. <SHRUG>

Nasrudith wrote:I'm not entirely sure that patron really fits for every parent, even with a custom ultra wimpy patron. I highly doubt that the Dunkels come even close to their son and daughter's in point values, let alone 150% so the lowest level wouldn't work that well as written.

Well, point totals work much better for Ally than for Patron. They're lacking in stuff useful to adventurers, but also lacking Social Stigma(Minor) and having wealth their children lack as such lets them provide Patron-style help.

We can, of course, simply disagree :)

Nasrudith wrote:Oh by the way can you tell me where I can find existing stun damage rules at?

It turns out they aren't in 4ed... In 3ed, they were in CII and/or Supers, aimed at low-death supers games. Every character has Stun HP equal to their normal HP(or at some multiple), and attacks dealt stun damage by default. Losing all Stun HP would render a character unconscious, and any further damage was real.

This would use the rule without the genre, with damage being real by default. Although Nanase won with a pin, and maybe we were just seeing relatively low-damage attacks...
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Re: El Goonish GURPS

Postby Nasrudith on Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:36 pm

Okay here's the knight of cerebus himself Damien. Weighing in at a whopping 488 points!
Stats [150]
ST: 20 [100] Initially I thought something lower would work but then I saw how he managed to swat back Grace and knock Hedge to the ground, and give a one hit knock out to Grace.
DX/IQ: 10 I don't think he has proven himself particularly smart or dexterous.
HT: 14 [40] He's pretty tough and it fits for him.
Will: 12 [10] Above average will fit him.
Advantages [382]
Unwilling Ally (Hedge) ~50% point value[2] : Damien is so powerful that his minions are ludicrously cheap, although there are too few for an ally group. This may result in a minor flucutation of value after I calculate Vlad, Guennia
Unwilling Ally (Vlad) ~50% point value[2]
Unwilling Ally (Guineas) ~50% point value[2]
Innate Attack: Aura Of Flame (7d burn, aura melee C range with fragile (explosive) and constant dependence (fuel))[30]: This is the closest I managed to get to his aura of flame attack which is implied to be so hot its dangerous even to Grace.
Flamethrower (3d burn, standard jet) [15]: Made to be close to the flame thrower weapon.
Damage Resistance 18 (Fire only) [54]: Under this he cannot be harmed by his own flame thrower which makes sense.
Flight [40]: He's proven himself capable of flight.
Regeneration (Very Fast) [150]: The most expensive single advantage and what has kept him alive with his subpar combat skills.
Unkillable I [50]: Protects him from destruction from things like normal massed fire and fits with Dan's description of his regeneration.
Regrowth [40]: See above.
Disadvantages [-50]
Bad Temper [-10]: He's proved himself quite voliatle (no pun intended).
Callous [-5]: As well as cruel.
Delusion (I am a God!!!!!!) [-15]: Standard aspect of his master of fire belief.
Meglomaniac [-10]: He planned on breeding an army and taking over the world!
Total Intolerance [-10] (All non seyenuloc): His belief in the prophecy calls for the genocide of the pure humans and uryuomoc.
Skills [6]
Brawling 11 [2]: He's practiced enough at hitting things but fights like an amateur.
Innate Attack (Beams) 12 [4]: From practice with his flame thrower burning things and people.

Without disadvantages he has a point value 538. Comments anyone? Think I forgot something or otherwise got anything wrong?
Last edited by Nasrudith on Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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