Come on.. get on with it...

Lusty robotic mayhem from the creator of JOE AVERAGE!

Moderator: Aaron M. Holm, esquire

Come on.. get on with it...

Postby MotorMind on Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:02 am

The storyline isn't halfway interesting enough to make up for the tediously slow moving character of this strip. The author should either get his ass in gear or just abandon the project altogether.
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Postby Seredreph on Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:05 am

Calm down.
There's no need for such a hastiness.

*gives MotorMind valerian pills* :)
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Postby Aaron M. Holm, esquire on Wed Mar 05, 2003 10:16 am

Actually, as infuriatingly trollish and rude as those comments were, he does have a point. S&V really isn't very interesting; it's not speeding along at all; and I definitely need to get my ass in gear. This isn't anything I'm blind to or am deluding myself with, otherwise.

I'm closing the site down for a general overhaul of everything, right down the the smallest detail, because this isn't working right and when something's not working right, it needs to be fixed, else it continues to wheeze and sputter until it eventually dies, or it just gets so infuriating that it gets abandoned completely by the wayside.

It sucks, I know. Especially when this stupid things goes to pot every couple of weeks, but this needs to be done, if things plan on continuing. I want this thing to work, and I'll have to be super drastic about it, but, come hell or high water, I am going to make it work.
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Postby ElectricPoweredShock on Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:59 pm

When you overhaul, bring back the homicidal crazy guy who says his "E"s backwards!
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Postby Vash_the_Stampede on Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:07 pm

also might I add that maybe Aaron you might want to try messying around making I don't know, a new comic?

If your not that happy with the ones you have, maybe you should make one you are happy with so that it isn't a chore to make them?

That way I think we will all be happier, but either way Ill still be checking everyday
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Postby MotorMind on Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:18 am

Aaron M. Holm, esquire wrote:Actually, as infuriatingly trollish and rude as those comments were, he does have a point. S&V really isn't very interesting; it's not speeding along at all; and I definitely need to get my ass in gear. This isn't anything I'm blind to or am deluding myself with, otherwise.


I didn't mean to troll or be abusive, but I prefer clear language to beating around the bush :roll: I was seeing the work of someone who obviously doesn't really enjoy what he is doing at the moment.

I'm a musician and sometimes just cranked out tracks just to have something available, usually leading to dismal results. It is a good choice ot let this comic rest for a while until inspiration returns.

I thoroughly enjoy Joe Average though ;)
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Postby Vash_the_Stampede on Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:56 am

I might add(actually i am) that while i don't mind so much, if you have to keep overhauling S&V then whats the point? If you have to constantly stop JUST to get insperation, then whats the point? Like I said make something you don't have to struggle with, while I know myself a comic isn't something you can just spew out, I think that you might want to give it some thought
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Postby Aaron M. Holm, esquire on Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:47 am

Vash_the_Stampede wrote:I might add(actually i am) that while i don't mind so much, if you have to keep overhauling S&V then whats the point? If you have to constantly stop JUST to get insperation, then whats the point? Like I said make something you don't have to struggle with, while I know myself a comic isn't something you can just spew out, I think that you might want to give it some thought


Well, a lot of it has to do with these points...

1) I like the characters... Especially Ajax.

2) Crosby likes the strip and thinks it has potential both as a hit strip and a marketing bonanza, if I can actually get my shit together with the strip.

3) I want to keep it up. Right now, it has a lot more to do with the situation than with my creativity level. Really, I have and have had a million ideas for things to do with the strip, but it's difficult to do with I have a very limited time to be working on strip each day.

4) The reason that things weren't working, pacing-wise, is because I was writing on the fly, i.e. not scripting at all. I'd just forumlate the idea, draw it out, then write the dialogue out. It's good for writing the occasional gag, but it's murder on pacing. That's why it kept jumping from side-story to side story and never really got anywhere. I'm writing scripts and planning this thing out, meticulously, so we don't have do deal with this crap again, if I can help it.
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Postby Vash_the_Stampede on Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:02 pm

whatever makes you happy, it was just a suggestion
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Postby silentdarth on Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:41 pm

I'm sorry, I love your strips, but I have to ask, is Vash your mom or something? Every time Aaron posts, Vash is right after. I mean, come on, I'm sorry to be a dick, but are you his fan club or something? Aaron is a big boy and can stick up for himself, so what's with jumping to his defense every time someone throws out a comment that isn't totally kissing his ass?
I say, stick with JA becz it rocks, but maybe 1 strip for awhile until time allows.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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Postby Vash_the_Stampede on Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:28 pm

naaaw i don't mean to come off like that, if i do, ill stop posting so frequently as i do......


but i just get kind of pissed when i see people bitching and whiny and complaning about something they get for free and should be happy about that it is free as it is.So i don't really take it upon myself to act like his "mom" cuz thats just kind of creepy *shudder* but i post like do more to just say that while there are people who would rather bitch and moan there are people who are still there and happy the way things are.So yeah ill stop acting the way i do if thats how im seeming, i just really didn't notic. But then again on retrospect i see where youre coming from when you say that.

And to put a stop to and fabricated rumors, i am not female in which case i could not be aarons mom. :D
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Postby Aaron M. Holm, esquire on Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:52 pm

Vash_the_Stampede wrote:And to put a stop to and fabricated rumors, i am not female in which case i could not be aarons mom. :D


Actually, if you were acting like my mother (or my Dad, for that matter), you'd be telling me to stop wasting my time with this crap, because I'm not seeing a penny for anything I do, and all people do is piss and moan for more.

So, I think you're safe.
Mr. Holm is personally responsible for the quality of his comics. If you and your friends aren't completely and utterly entertained by any of his comics, it may result in his being booted from Keenspot. This will dishonor his family, which he can only restore by taking his own life with a sword.
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Postby MotorMind on Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:35 am

Aaron M. Holm, esquire wrote:acting like my mother (or my Dad, for that matter), you'd be telling me to stop wasting my time with this crap, because I'm not seeing a penny for anything I do, and all people do is piss and moan for more.


I wondered when you'd start griping about not being paid for what
you do. It's not all about money, see. If people make the effort to
actually come and see your page you had better something to show
them.

I put my music on-line and ever so often get lousy critique. Shit happens..
it's all part of the game. The fact that it's free doesn't mean people have
to like it or should refrain from criticism. Any feedback is welcome, in
my view. It's part of growing up as an artist.

And besides, if people moan for MORE that's a good thing, right?
It's way better than folx who tell you to stop.
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Postby Aaron M. Holm, esquire on Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:51 am

MotorMind wrote:I wondered when you'd start griping about not being paid for what you do. It's not all about money, see. If people make the effort to actually come and see your page you had better something to show them.


Typically, I don't gripe about the money. And the above statement wasn't about me griping about the money, either. That had more to do with the lack of support from my own family than it did with my ability to generate a profit off of this crap.

Yes, it's frustrating that I'm not making a dime off of this stuff, especially when I have little to no aspirations for this stuff to be totally mainstream. The idea of syndication is a joke. I'm just doing them to do them, for the most part. And the reason I haven't just up and quit even when it's been difficult for me to work, or because I don't hae the time or energy to create more is because I do know that people are coming by to see what I do, and that's a nice thought.

There's a reason why I refrain from being a lemming and putting one of those stupid paypal links on my sites. I choose not to, because, to me, it's like I'm begging people for a handout. I don't feel comfortable asking for money from strangers, because it seems a little too much like panhandling to me. I also refrain from begging because of my ross inconsistency. Were I able to update more often and maintain a consistently-updated and entertaining strip, then maybe I would deserve some donations. However, my work is neither of these things, so I won't be requesting things I didn't earn in the first place.
Mr. Holm is personally responsible for the quality of his comics. If you and your friends aren't completely and utterly entertained by any of his comics, it may result in his being booted from Keenspot. This will dishonor his family, which he can only restore by taking his own life with a sword.
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A question

Postby xhale on Fri Apr 11, 2003 2:23 am

What is the holdup, exactly? Plot, motivation, art? Real life?

I'm totally new to Sex and Violence (try telling people IRL that and see what happens!). Read through the entire series in one sitting over a modem connection. No need to tell me, I know I have no life.

Anyway, the question stands.

Taking them in reverse order, art is what really makes this comic stand out. Aside from the fact that all the female characters seem to have the same face (but different hair/makeup/cool tattoos), the graphics rock. It's some of the best art I've seen in any continuing series on the net. But you're doing TWO comics - is all the artwork slowing you down? I can't draw a straight line (or even a homosexual one), so I don't know how long it takes. Even if you had everything you need to keep two comics running, do you have the time to draw both?

Motivation. Do you have it? Do you -want- to do two series at once? Even if you could, you can't please everyone, but could you do it for yourself and those fans who -would- be happy? I haven't read any of Joe Average yet (I have to sleep sometime, and I only have so much time off work, let alone in a day), so I won't comment on it (yet). S&V, if run regularly and run well, could very seriously be a runaway success. Sci-fi, blood, nipples, satire and cybernetics... Your potential audience is every male between the ages of 16 and 66 (not counting the few octegenarians who a) can actually use a computer and b) take derpdrugs like aspirin), not to mention comicon chicks, every lesbian who's ever written Xena: Warrior Princess slash fanfic and every goth in existence. Hell, if having a bunch of leather clad Dommes after you to give them all you've got isn't motivation I don't know what is.

That leaves plot. You've said you're sketching these things out higgeldy-piggeldy, rather than having any clue where you're going... Do you need help with that? Frankly, Plot should be the least of your concerns. Ameteur writers are a dime a dozen on the internet - I should know, I'm one of them. It's the artists, interesting ones particularly, that are a rarity on the net. Put out a call for assistence, find a writer you like and can get along with and put him to work. This dosen't mean you have to give up any control - it just means you have to delegate a little to get more done.

You've got what, three or four incomplete plots right now, ignoring any of the sub-plots you could deal with. I have to assume you dropped each plotline because you either a) didn't know where to go with it b) got tired of it, c) forgot where you were going, or d) just said "bugger it" and decided to start over each time you returned to the series. Getting a writer in, even a crappy one like me, at the very least lets you bounce your own ideas off someone else, which is almost always helpful to the creative process. The two of you could very easily get things moving in the series.

Some ideas:

Bring monkeyboy back.

Rosie programs Ajax to steal a bunch of gay robots who march on the fundie crimefighters and drop trou (a la the kilt scene in Braveheart), only to bend over and smack their rumps, firing projectile explosives from an obvious orifice.

Ajax infiltrates the porn industry as an actress, but Rosie has to make some modifications - since Ajax was a waitress and not a pleasure droid, she's built like a Barbie doll. Her first scene is with the droid Bishop threw out (and Ajax sent away). She convinces HIM to do all the killing and he gets toasted while doing the job. Ajax finishes it.

The old lady was a wanted criminal - Ajax gets a reward for offing her, buys the building and throws Bishop out for non payment of rent. She finds him on the street only a week later gnawing on his hand for food and looking like someone who -didn't- survive a nazi concentration camp. -She- hires -him-, after he grovels pitifully (while he's lying on the ground bleeding, mind you). Rosie fixes him up with a prosthetic, but it's like a lobster's claw rather than a hand. He complains that he'll only be able to type one-handed, and Ajax says she never knew he typed any other way (or insert standard Star Wars joke).

Real life. If reality is the problem, well, you're just fucked I guess. Take a number, someone will get to you eventually. If that's the case, this is what I suggest: finish ONE of the plotlines. I suggest knocking off the porn dude. Go out in a blaze of glory, but don't kill of the character. Give the readers a MINOR cliffhanger - maybe Ajax is paid for the hit, but since she accepted it for Bishop she decides it's his money. She goes to find him, but only finds his corpse! Von Zell killed him because without Ajax he was useless. Boom, cliffhanger. Finish all the art and post the entire thing all at once or back to back on consecutive days.

Then whenever RL lets you get back on a schedule, Ajax has to go to hell and rescue Ajax - pulling in the earlier storyline and doing something with it. Why does she rescue him? Because unless he's alive (or returned to the living) she can't give him the money she earned for him!

Continuity, you use the some of the plots you've left dangling, and the return of a more active, -violent- Ajax.

Just some thoughts off the top of my clearly addled head.
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