Employees must wash hands...

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Postby LevelHead on Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:11 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TKarrde98:
<B>Awww, but Ceasar, HIV/AIDS won't appear for another two millenia....</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The HIV virus is not passed by unwashed hands, and in fact does not survive well at all outside of a host.<P>This is a VERY GOOD THING. THAT would be an unwelcome mutation.<P>Nevertheless, the Romans did have a problem. Without preservatives, the local salmon "praised without cooking" (or <I>laus andante</I>) smelled terrible, and tended to make all other foods taste bad if you touched them after handling this fish.<P>Thus do our restroom signs warn us, even today, to wash because of "Salmon-L.A." poisoning.<P>===|==============/ Level Head
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Postby TKarrde98 on Mon Mar 04, 2002 7:31 am

Awww, but Ceasar, HIV/AIDS won't appear for another two millenia....<P>Hee hee! I LOVE your bg signs, Gneech!<P>TK
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Postby Smithburg on Tue Mar 05, 2002 6:47 am

Just think if AIDS became an airborne virus. ::shudder::<P>-Mike-<P>-Im sitting in class right now and the teacher is listening to irish jigs, i think its affecting my brain... ::Loud popping noise:: OW! ::thud::
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Postby TKarrde98 on Tue Mar 05, 2002 10:22 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Posted by LevelHead:
<B>The HIV virus is not passed by unwashed hands, and in fact does not survive well at all outside of a host.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I was refering to the blood on the executioner's hands from handling the whipped prisoner, hammering the nails, and the spear they used to pierce Jesus' side (presumably this was a common practice), where HIV will survive outside it's host for quite some time.
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Postby Pusch on Tue Mar 05, 2002 10:29 am

FYI, spearing the side of someone who was crucified was normal practice. it was an easy way to tell if the person was dead. the blood and platlettes (sp?) seperated. if the guy's blood ran clear from the spear wound, he'd been dead long enough and it was time to take him down.<P>------------------
Beer is the mind killer.
Beer is the little death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my beer.
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And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
When the beer has gone there will be nothing.
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Postby GrimMalady on Wed Mar 06, 2002 1:34 am

Ah, but along with credibility, we must examine an historian's biases. For instance, this "John" fellow was a friend of the criminal and a noted follower of his political and theological theories. We have to consider that "John" (and his cohorts, such as "Matthew," "Luke," etc.) may have, consciously or subconsciously, skewed his perceptions or memories of the event to match their expectations or hopes. This may explain the confusion regarding the spearing, and the misquoting of Atratus in "John"s record.<P>------------------
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Postby LevelHead on Wed Mar 06, 2002 2:00 am

The word you were looking for was "platelets", but I think "plasma" matches your description better. Nevertheless, The Gneech is likely to barge in about now with "Spear me the details!".<P>Oho! Another would-be Kumquat Hagendasz!<P>===|==============/ Level Head<p>[This message has been edited by LevelHead (edited 03-06-2002).]
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Postby GrimMalady on Wed Mar 06, 2002 5:56 am

I don't trust historians AT ALL.
Half of them say that the spearing was common practice, and the other half say that it wasn't. Half of the ones that say that the spearing was common say that the spearing was to hasten the death of criminals (as a form of mercy) and the other half speak of some variant of the clear-blood idea.
My statistics are a bit off, but the sentiment is valid, I think.<P>------------------
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Postby Pusch on Wed Mar 06, 2002 6:19 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GrimMalady:
<B>I don't trust historians AT ALL.
Half of them say that the spearing was common practice, and the other half say that it wasn't. Half of the ones that say that the spearing was common say that the spearing was to hasten the death of criminals (as a form of mercy) and the other half speak of some variant of the clear-blood idea.
My statistics are a bit off, but the sentiment is valid, I think.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I really don't think that mercy had anything to do with it. crucifiction wasn't meant to be a merciful death. if they wanted merciful, hanging or beheading would have been more merciful and quicker. people who were crucified died from bleeding to death and more commonly by suffication. doesn't sound like a merciful death to me.<P>
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Postby TKarrde98 on Wed Mar 06, 2002 7:59 am

Pusch, I love your sig! Are you a member of the Beerey Gesserit?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Posted by GrimMalady:
<B>I don't trust historians AT ALL.
Half of them say that the spearing was common practice, and the other half say that it wasn't. Half of the ones that say that the spearing was common say that the spearing was to hasten the death of criminals (as a form of mercy) and the other half speak of some variant of the clear-blood idea.
My statistics are a bit off, but the sentiment is valid, I think.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You wound me to the quick!<P>The thing to do is to examine the credibility of each source, and also remember that crucifixion was in use for hundreds of years, so the practice may have changed drastically over such a long time.<P>An historian who, according to himself and other writers from the same time, was at the crucifixion of Jesus comments thus:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><I>Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. <B>Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.</B></I>
--- John 19.31-35<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>(Breaking the legs was to expediate the crucifixion because the victim could no longer raise himself up for breath and would suffocate quickly.)<P>What I am curious about is that Altratus was the centurion who saw all this, and yet he does not believe.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><I>Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last. The centurion, seeing what had happened, praised God and said, "Surely this was a righteous man."</I>
--- Luke 23.46-47<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>[edited to correct bad HTML]<P>TK
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Postby Pusch on Wed Mar 06, 2002 12:58 pm

actually, i stole it from this Goats strip:
<A HREF="http://www.goats.com/archive/990517.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.goats.com/archive/990517.html</A>
<P>------------------
Beer is the mind killer.
Beer is the little death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my beer.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
When the beer has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
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Postby TKarrde98 on Thu Mar 07, 2002 7:51 am

John was indeed Jesus' best friend. But I doubt that this particular passage has escewed memories. Scholars believe the last sentence ("The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.") was written by someone else. There is a similar passage at the end of the book of John, likely written by other witnesses of the events to confirm John's story.<P>As for Matthew, yes, he was a disciple as well. But Mark and John never met Jesus in real life. Mark likely recorded the book from Peter's stories, while Luke wrote the following about the books "Luke" and "Acts":<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>(Theophilus was an historian, and likely a recent convert outside Judaea.)<P>TK
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