Controversial

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Controversial

Postby Durgrumm on Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:54 am

While I was bored at work last night, I found a copy of Wednesday's newspaper and started to read it. I came across this article on Embryonic stem cell [research] and what not. Now in the article it states that it is the only bill dubya has ever vetoed, and so long as he is in office, he will continue to veto it.

Also in the article it states, "Stem cells are created in the first days after conception, and are typically culled from frozen embryos, which are destroyed in the process."

I would like to know what your standpoints are on this subject. If you don't answer fine, but I would like some honest opinions. To be quite honest, if I had been asked this a year or more ago, I would have said, "Pass it, it could help possibly lead to cures." Now, I'm torn.

Just curious as to what you guys think on the topic. :-?
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Postby Masteroftheweb on Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:26 am

The grand part about all this... is that those fetuses are going to be destroyed ANYway... might as well get some use out of them in my opinion.

And I'm one of those people that believe that a fetus is a fetus till it has brain activity, then it's alive.
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Postby gurshu12 on Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:41 am

I thought it was a huge mistake shutting down stem cell research, considering all the different diseases and crap we can cure from them.

Oh well...go republicans...
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Postby sansnom on Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:45 pm

Fuck those frozen embryos. They ain't alive, they're fucking FROZEN.
I needs me some cures.
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Postby .oni. on Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:05 pm

Masteroftheweb wrote:And I'm one of those people that believe that a fetus is a fetus till it has brain activity, then it's alive.


What he said.
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Postby ChibiBecca on Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:45 pm

i agree that if they were going to be discarded anyway, then why all the fuss about stemcells?

you heard about these human/animal hybrid cells they were going to make to help science further? government put a blanket ban on that as well, dispite the fact that they were never going to try to bring an animal/human to full term anyway.. it's all silliness.


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Postby Shocke on Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:25 pm

Okay, you asked for it Durgrumm.

This subject is one of controversy among the people of Earth. One side declares, "It is wrong to kill a potential life," and the other side counters, "If that potential life can be used to help living people, then it should be used." Many people think that all life is sacred from the moment the egg is fertilized, and still others believe that if it has no thought, then it is not alive. Does a plant think? If you mean taking information and responding to it, then yes. Therefore, it is "alive". At the very early stages of pregnancy, the fetus does not think. It is little more than a hunk of multiplying cells that will think when it grows to a certain point. So then, is it alive? That depends on how you interpret life. I believe that a fetus that cannot take information and respond to it isn't alive yet. The essence of life, the thing that cannot be described, the soul, isn't in the thing yet. It is only a husk, a vessel for the true life. If we the people who allow that husk to grow until the soul is with it need to use that husk to make another husk work better for the soul that is using it, then in my opinion, that's ok. But when that fetus gains the ability to think (i.e. becomes inhabited by a soul), then I believe that it is then alive. If the mother is willing to give that life up to make someone else's body better, or just can't support that child, or doesn't want a child, then that is their responsibility and they should acknowledge that they did choose to end their child's life. And if it is aborted, then how is it wrong to use that dead body to cure stuff like AIDS, cancer, asthma, diabeties, or some other disease that I forgot? It's dead, how is not using it to help people wrong? What, not using it going to make killing it somehow less cruel? No. If a fetus is dead, then it should be used to help other people. But, this is just my opinion.
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Postby Vex Wolf on Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:29 pm

Heh the funny thing is.... You can get plenty of stem cells without having to be a baby killer even, they can just use the belly cord (my memory relapses, can't remember the name -_-) for a lot of that.

Stem cell research, I believe, should come into effect. If mothers are going to get rid of unwanted children through abortion, let something good come of it.

I have a personal stake in this shit as well. I mean if they can fucking figure out how to use stem cells in conjunction to cloning other organs there goes Diabetes entirely. I'll be fucking cured, be able to stuff an entire god damn cake in my mouth and not have to load up a 100 cc syringe full of insulin. I'll have a pancreas again and never have to ALWAYS have the fear of losing my feet thanks to me fucking up with my dosage.
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Postby Durgrumm on Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:30 am

Shocke wrote:Okay, you asked for it Durgrumm.

This subject is one of controversy among the people of Earth. One side declares, "It is wrong to kill a potential life," and the other side counters, "If that potential life can be used to help living people, then it should be used." Many people think that all life is sacred from the moment the egg is fertilized, and still others believe that if it has no thought, then it is not alive. Does a plant think? If you mean taking information and responding to it, then yes. Therefore, it is "alive". At the very early stages of pregnancy, the fetus does not think. It is little more than a hunk of multiplying cells that will think when it grows to a certain point. So then, is it alive? That depends on how you interpret life. I believe that a fetus that cannot take information and respond to it isn't alive yet. The essence of life, the thing that cannot be described, the soul, isn't in the thing yet. It is only a husk, a vessel for the true life. If we the people who allow that husk to grow until the soul is with it need to use that husk to make another husk work better for the soul that is using it, then in my opinion, that's ok. But when that fetus gains the ability to think (i.e. becomes inhabited by a soul), then I believe that it is then alive. If the mother is willing to give that life up to make someone else's body better, or just can't support that child, or doesn't want a child, then that is their responsibility and they should acknowledge that they did choose to end their child's life. And if it is aborted, then how is it wrong to use that dead body to cure stuff like AIDS, cancer, asthma, diabeties, or some other disease that I forgot? It's dead, how is not using it to help people wrong? What, not using it going to make killing it somehow less cruel? No. If a fetus is dead, then it should be used to help other people. But, this is just my opinion.


You're right.. I did ask for it. I wanted people's opinions, and that is exactly what i received. I was curious as to everyone's standpoint on it. I never said they should or shouldn't, i said that I was torn between the two.

What I do have to say, however, is that stem cells helped prolong my little brother's best friend's life. So I believe that the research is a wonderful idea. I just wanted opinions on the embryonic research. The doctors didn't expect him to live past 5 due to cancer. He lived until the age of 13. The 3rd time he had cancer (age 10 or 11 I believe) the doctors did a stem cell transplant as an alternative to chemo. Once he got cancer again at 13, he realized that it was his time to leave, and went peacefully. Didn't bother with chemo or anything. If using embryonic stem cells help to cure diseases and those embryos would just be used for that sole purpose, so be it. I hope one day they find a cure for everything (jeeze I'm getting mushy.. that's what happens when I think of Hunter) so people no longer have to suffer, except those god damn noobs.
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Postby deathtrooper on Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:09 am

:cry:
*Gives Durgrumm hug*

*Spontaneously combusts*
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Postby sansnom on Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:53 am

Shocke wrote:Okay, you asked for it Durgrumm.

This subject is one of controversy among the people of Earth. One side declares, "It is wrong to kill a potential life," and the other side counters, "If that potential life can be used to help living people, then it should be used." Many people think that all life is sacred from the moment the egg is fertilized, and still others believe that if it has no thought, then it is not alive. Does a plant think? If you mean taking information and responding to it, then yes. Therefore, it is "alive". At the very early stages of pregnancy, the fetus does not think. It is little more than a hunk of multiplying cells that will think when it grows to a certain point. So then, is it alive? That depends on how you interpret life. I believe that a fetus that cannot take information and respond to it isn't alive yet. The essence of life, the thing that cannot be described, the soul, isn't in the thing yet. It is only a husk, a vessel for the true life. If we the people who allow that husk to grow until the soul is with it need to use that husk to make another husk work better for the soul that is using it, then in my opinion, that's ok. But when that fetus gains the ability to think (i.e. becomes inhabited by a soul), then I believe that it is then alive. If the mother is willing to give that life up to make someone else's body better, or just can't support that child, or doesn't want a child, then that is their responsibility and they should acknowledge that they did choose to end their child's life. And if it is aborted, then how is it wrong to use that dead body to cure stuff like AIDS, cancer, asthma, diabeties, or some other disease that I forgot? It's dead, how is not using it to help people wrong? What, not using it going to make killing it somehow less cruel? No. If a fetus is dead, then it should be used to help other people. But, this is just my opinion.


Yes, all life is sacred. That is why there are white young males with assault rifles in iraq, killing and being killed by other middle east young males. If you're a frozen embryo about to be thrown away in a garbage bin, you're sacred. If you're fully grown organism in it's prime, well, time for you to murder/get killed.
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Postby Masteroftheweb on Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:08 am

Hey dumb ass, soul =/= thinking.

But hey... the greeks invented the idea of the soul anyways, right?
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Postby Paradox244 on Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:23 am

Vex Wolf wrote:Heh the funny thing is.... You can get plenty of stem cells without having to be a baby killer even, they can just use the belly cord (my memory relapses, can't remember the name -_-) for a lot of that.

Stem cell research, I believe, should come into effect. If mothers are going to get rid of unwanted children through abortion, let something good come of it.

I have a personal stake in this shit as well. I mean if they can fucking figure out how to use stem cells in conjunction to cloning other organs there goes Diabetes entirely. I'll be fucking cured, be able to stuff an entire god damn cake in my mouth and not have to load up a 100 cc syringe full of insulin. I'll have a pancreas again and never have to ALWAYS have the fear of losing my feet thanks to me fucking up with my dosage.
Umbilical cord. Also, it may be possible to... prod, manipulate, or convince, I suppose you could, mature cells to become stem cells again. And stim cells have been found in milk teeth, or baby teeth as you might call them.

One of the main arguments against stem cell research is that it people might clone themselves, then abort the clone solely for the result of gathering the stem cells. In other words, not use cells that would be thrown out anyway, but create a clone and kill it so they could use it. Think of that what you will.

My take? I haven't got a bloody clue. On the one hand, I'm against abortion. On the other hand, I'm for revolutionizing medical science and saving the lives of the already born. So I have no clue in hell what my opinion on this is, or ought to be. That seems to be my position on a lot of things now days.
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Postby gurshu12 on Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:09 pm

This thread has way too much talking for me too pay attention.
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Postby godot on Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:16 pm

.oni. wrote:
Masteroftheweb wrote:And I'm one of those people that believe that a fetus is a fetus till it has brain activity, then it's alive.


What he said.


*raises hand*

*puts it back down*


Just way too easy.
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Postby Masteroftheweb on Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:20 am

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Postby Paradox244 on Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:44 am

That was indeed one of Maddox's best articles. Hell, I'd vote for him.
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Postby sansnom on Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:52 pm

Paradox244 wrote:That was indeed one of Maddox's best articles. Hell, I'd vote for him.

I hear he's a huge pussy IRL.
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Postby Durgrumm on Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:32 am

Takes one to know one, no?
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Postby APE on Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:11 pm

godot wrote:
.oni. wrote:
Masteroftheweb wrote:And I'm one of those people that believe that a fetus is a fetus till it has brain activity, then it's alive.


What he said.


*raises hand*

*puts it back down*


Just way too easy.


Me too.

gurshu12 wrote:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject:
This thread has way too much talking for me too pay attention.

agreed. :)
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Postby deathtrooper on Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:26 am

Talking makes my brain go boom...
There are three types of people in this world.
People who make things happen.
People who watch things happen.
And people who wonder what the hell happened.
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Postby Durgrumm on Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:10 am

Lol what doesn't make you go boom in one way shape or form DT?
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Postby deathtrooper on Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:37 am

...Umm...
Well...theres this...no..wait, it did last summer, so...umm...
Well, this one time...nah, that doesn't count...


Hmm....

Nope, i got nothing.








*Spontaneously combusts*
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Postby Shocke on Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:12 am

Does swimming make you go boom?
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Postby deathtrooper on Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:30 pm

Does swimming make potassium go boom?
There are three types of people in this world.
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