An interesting Experience from a recent member

The noble Order of the Knights of Jubal traces its origins back to the Year Two Thousand A.D., when a group of distinguished persons of good and true character, founded the order to promote chivalry and honour. The order takes its name from our leader, Alexander Jubal McRae, who on two (so far) occasions has been seriously injured, in one case fatally, defending an innocent woman from attackers.

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An interesting Experience from a recent member

Postby Jamie on Sat Dec 07, 2002 4:30 pm

A recent member of the KOJ sent me an e-mail detailing the heroism of a friend and his own thoughts on the matter. Thank you, Kurt, for sending us this detail of your experience.

This has been posted with Kurt's kind permission. Thank you again, Kurt.

Dear Sir or Mam,

My name is Kurt Alexander Langberg. I am a student at LA Tech and I have
been considering joining the order for some time now. I did not really
think that I wanted to until a few weeks ago when recent events made me
change my mind. Firstly, I was not planning on joining the Knights of Jubal
because I was planning to become a brother in the Masonic Order, but when I
spoke with my father, who happens to be the current master of Slaughter
Lodge (Slaughter is the name of a town), he advised that I waight until my
acedemic studies were finished due to the amount of time it would take me to
complete all of the tests.

But what REALLY convinced me to join was when my dorm caught fire about a
month ago. It happened at about one in the morning. My roomate and I were
alright and had no problems getting out seeing as the fire was on the second
floor and we lived on the first, but what really upset me was that one of my
friends, Brock, who lived on the second floor, lived right across from the
room where the fire started. I did not think about it until he broke the
window right over my head and started yelling for help. I thought at the
time that he was trapped in his room and couldn't get out(little did I know
that he could have gotten out if he wanted to but he was trying to drag
someone to the window who had passed out from smoke inhalation). When I
heard him yelling for help I ran back in the building and tried to go
upstairs to help him get out, but a police man standing about a quarter of
the way up the stairwell and forced me to leave the building. I did notice
though that there was a solid wall of black smoke right above his head and
that even though I couldn't get by the cop it was already thick in my lungs.
Had I kept my head on straight I would have at least gotten a wet towel or
something to drape over my head before trying to run up there, but I suppose
not everyone can think clearly in a crisis. On a more positive note, even
though I was powerless to help anyone no one died. Four people went to the
hospital(including Brock), but no one died.

Despite the fact that everyone got out alive it troubled me very deeply that
I wasn't able to help anyone. It bothered me even more when people told me
that I sould be concerned with my own safety first and then worry about the
safety of others. It was clear to me then that there were not enough people
in the world whom are willing to sacrifice their lives for the lives of
others, or at least there aren't enough people who understand what it means
to value the life of another or others over your own life.

Sincerely,
Kurt Alexander Langberg

P.S. I will try to inform Brock of the Kights of the Order of Jubal. In my
opinion he would make prime KI material. After all, he succeded at helping
the student who passed out in the smoke, but I was unable to help him.
P.S. There is a website that has the pictures from the Cottingham fire on
it, and as soon as I find the URL I will e-mail it to you so that you can
see it for yourself. The fire wan't all that big, but there sure was A LOT
of smoke.

Photos of the fire can be seen here: http://eb.journ.latech.edu/techtalk/ . If that doesn't work got to http://www.latech.edu and click on the search button on the banner at the top, go all the way down to the bottom of the page and type "Cottingham fire" in the search bar.


Take care,

(Sir) Jamie, KCI in the Order of the Knights of Jubal
Probi Immotiqve Este: Be virtuous and cool. PIQE.

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Re: An interesting Experience from a recent member

Postby redwulf25_ci on Wed Dec 11, 2002 7:37 pm

Jamie wrote:P.S. I will try to inform Brock of the Kights of the Order of Jubal. In my
opinion he would make prime KI material. After all, he succeded at helping
the student who passed out in the smoke, but I was unable to help him.


I would like to remind Kurt that there is no dishonor in being UNABLE to help, only in being UNWILLING to. Although, I've been known to beat myself up a little when I discover something I feel I should have been able to prevent.
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Postby Valentine on Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:01 am

Hello there,

there's a thought going round in my mind for a few days now and I think it might fit to this topic.
The other day an old lady stumpled and fell as she tried to get on the bus.
Me and two other passants standing near helped her up and made sure she found a place to sit.

After that I noticed, that I never thought about doing right or honorable or anything else.

My question is: do we do right to be honorable? Or to be good?
I had the feeling, that I simply acted, with no intention. Is that ethics?
Is it possible to act, without trying to be good, but in order not to be evil (a very strong word, but I didn't find a better one)?

I kinda joined the order because I hoped it would help me make myself act better. But what is it that make one act? I guess I'm thinking of subconsciousness here, but I also believe that there is no good or evil but only positiv or negative intentions that are purly subjective.

Best regards,

Valentine, CI
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Postby Silver Adept on Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:58 am

Wh00t, Valentine! An excellent question. (Now, to actually put the Philosophy class to work...)

Most of the classical philosophers on both sides of the equation would say that you have an ethical sense. Some might say that you were working only under rote behavior. The question, of course, to ask is, did you do it because it was right? Or did you do it for some other reason?

Ethics to them was a process of choosing the correct thing to do. Even unconscious actions use ethics, because they're based on:

1) Instruction you have received regarding right and wrong

and

2) Previous experiences in ethical situations.

An action done solely because it was the right thing to do was a truly virtuous, ethical action.

Now, onward and beyond that (my personal, unqualified opinons) :

We do right by being honorable. Sometimes, a smaller wrong occurs to preserve the greater right, but on the whole, honor carries great righteousness with it.
It is still my opinion that common courtesy is correct behavior, simply repackaged and "dumbed-down" (not precisely what I had in mind...) to the point where it's no big deal if someone has it. (Or it shouldn't be...) So unconscious actions by that principle are ethical, they just fall under common courtesy, something that really doesn't need to be thought about.

As for the last question, yes, it's possible to act solely in trying to avoid negative reactions without actually trying to act in a moral or ethical sense of good. It's what tells us not to touch a burning fire. Simple instinct to avoid negative consequences and court positive ones.

(And the philosophers have quite a bit to say about what makes a person act... perhaps you would benefit from some reading or a course in it.)
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Postby Dafodarian on Sun Dec 15, 2002 12:21 pm

Silver Adept wrote:As for the last question, yes, it's possible to act solely in trying to avoid negative reactions without actually trying to act in a moral or ethical sense of good. It's what tells us not to touch a burning fire. Simple instinct to avoid negative consequences and court positive ones.


Another angle you can take is to look at it as a psychological phenomenon - In summary, you either do it because some part of you sees it as 'right' (inherent), or you do it because it makes other people impressed (external, reward driven), or you do it because other people will be narky at you if you dont (external, punishment driven). Of course, in each case, the subconscious acts, and then your conscious mind rationalises it, so that it still has the illusion of control. Yeah, it's a pretty grim outlook, really...

If you're interested in the real data, not just my painfully broad generalisations, I can put up some references, you can tag them in any college/uni-grade library.

Enjoy...
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Pat - CI in the order of the Knights of Jubal
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Postby Josh the Aspie on Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:40 am

First of all Kurt, I applaud you for -trying- to help when you realized it was needed. From the sound of things a large number of other people in the croud didn't.

Second, I applaud you for realizing you could not help, and accepting it, rather than risking harm to your self in a situation where it was likely not to have done much good after realizing this fact.

Third, I'd like to encourage you not to feel bad about your innability to help, but instead try to think of ways you might be able to help should a similar situation ever again occur (heavens forbid).

Fourth, to Brock. *salutes* I salute your merrit sir.

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