Questing Knights

The noble Order of the Knights of Jubal traces its origins back to the Year Two Thousand A.D., when a group of distinguished persons of good and true character, founded the order to promote chivalry and honour. The order takes its name from our leader, Alexander Jubal McRae, who on two (so far) occasions has been seriously injured, in one case fatally, defending an innocent woman from attackers.

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Questing Knights

Postby redwulf25_ci on Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:59 pm

I do not know if this is still a problem good knights and companions, however I recal that at one point the confusion over what one must do to obtain elevation was being discused and plans were to be made. I have heard nothing further but if nothing has yet been implemented I have the glimering of an idea of how we can codify and standerdize elevation. It is (on the surface at least) simple and it is a great tradition of knight hood since the time of Arthur and his knights of the round table. I propose that there should be a grand quest! The quest should be set before us companions by our Knight Comander or by the Conclave. The quest should be a task that is posible to compleat but arduous. It should exemplify the virtues of our order and it should be something that it is posible to obtain proof of compleation for. What this quest should be I know not, but if properly designed then anyone who can compleat it would truly deserve the title of Knight. (of course any knights granted the title prior to the quest would be grandfathered in, still oficial Knights and none should think less of them for their not having to compleat the quest).
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Postby zodo on Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:35 pm

I personally did not join this order to seek promotion or advancement. I joined because I thought it was a Good Thing.

In fact, I did not submit my oath until I convinced myself that I was worthy, by doing something that exemplified the ideals of this Order. Whether or not I advance is not my decision, and it is not my goal.

I consider every day I live to be a Quest, to uphold the principles upon which this Order was founded, and to remain true to the Oath I swore. For me, promotion may only come posthumously, but as I said, I'm not in it for the Glory.

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Postby Silver Adept on Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:51 pm

Possible. The quest, however, I do not believe should be Given to aspiring Knights, for it may give them something that they cannot do.

Therefore, the burden of proof does lie heavily on the companions, but something ardrous for them tailored to them would be something that they know to do.

Make any sense at all?
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Postby Darth Paradox on Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:48 am

I don't believe that the Order needs to institute specific quests. One thing that I've noticed is that knighthood/companionship in this order is not what one could refer to as a "full-time job". Obviously the Oath to which we are all sworn is applicable, and should be adhered to, at all times; however, many of us may not have the time to devote to the sort of "quests" that might arise here. I apply the Oath to my every-day life, as do we all, I'm sure. And should anyone here be found demonstrating particularly exemplary character and faithful adherence to the Oath, enough so to warrant elevation to Knighthood, let it be done, whether such a demonstration came as a specific noble action epitomizing all that the Order stands for, or as a more general way of living that the Order finds exceedingly honorable and moral as according to the Oath.

I guess what I'm trying to say, in my usual, overly verbose manner, is that the trials of our honor as Companions and Knights come daily, in all forms, and to each of us separately - and the challenge of surviving day-to-day life with morals and Oath intact is already a noble one, and already cannot be undertaken by just any person.

And that being said, I'm at a loss to propose any way to distinguish the behavior of a "regular" upstanding Companion from that of one deserving of Knighthood, on anything other than an individual basis.

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Postby Arrus on Thu Nov 07, 2002 7:42 am

I couldn't have put it better myself, Darth, though I think I'll add my own thoughts. Whether one is Knight, Companion, leader or whatever, we're all dedicated to these ideals. Not just for disussion or intellectual debate, but we took an Oath. I took it seriously, and live by it. One day, it'd be nice to be raised, of course, and put up my family coat of arms, but if not, does it mean I'm any less? This isn't a brag session of ones deeds and accomplishments, as far as I understand it, nor is it an ego boost. It's just...nice...to have an organization of such dedicated to such a significant ideal. And if one can't fully accomplish one's goal, can't be a superman, there's no crime there. We do what we can when we can, to the best of our ability. We try and spread goodwill and help others feel similarly. That's my understanding. That's why I like the group so much. If it was a bunch of people bragging about who they helped, and what community service they did...that'd be vain and hollow. This is not, though.
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Postby Kanaeda Kuonji on Thu Nov 07, 2002 6:12 pm

I am on a personal quest now...but it is spiritual in nature. I have abandoned all organized religion, feeling no particular duty to the boundaries of any one faith. I'm looking for myself, as well as trying to complete a college degree.
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Postby Thalass on Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:55 pm

Uni Degrees are spiritual? :???: :D


I think I agree with Darth on this. A standardised Quest wouldn't fit for everyone and wouldn't really work on the 'net anyway.

Perhaps something of a "tailored" quest, for those who are thought to be ready for Knighthood? Something of a "final test", or something like that.


eh. I dunno. I just joined 'cos it zinged when I looked at the site. By joining I kinda formalised what I was trying to live by anyway. Plus I met some funky people! haha
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Postby Kanaeda Kuonji on Sat Nov 09, 2002 8:49 am

zodo wrote:I personally did not join this order to seek promotion or advancement. I joined because I thought it was a Good Thing.

In fact, I did not submit my oath until I convinced myself that I was worthy, by doing something that exemplified the ideals of this Order. Whether or not I advance is not my decision, and it is not my goal.

I consider every day I live to be a Quest, to uphold the principles upon which this Order was founded, and to remain true to the Oath I swore. For me, promotion may only come posthumously, but as I said, I'm not in it for the Glory.

-Zodo, CI


And that is the way it needs to be. Join not for the perks, but because you really want to. I have this problem with people who only join religions as "fire insurance" and not because they sincerely believe in the tenets of the faith.

Oh, and Zodo, I see you read Tonja Steele too, huh? You actually look like one of the characters. Didn't think Mindy was that small :)
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Postby zodo on Sun Nov 10, 2002 5:34 pm

Actually, One of the characters was designed after the way I looked for that halloween costume. See?

Turns out I liked the way I look in the costume too, so I now keep my head shaved, and wear the leather jacket much of the time in the spring and fall.
:)

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Postby Kanaeda Kuonji on Sun Nov 10, 2002 10:51 pm

zodo wrote:Actually, One of the characters was designed after the way I looked for that halloween costume. See?

Turns out I liked the way I look in the costume too, so I now keep my head shaved, and wear the leather jacket much of the time in the spring and fall.
:)

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Hey, if it works, that's cool :) I'll have to hit that forum in the near future. As soon as the college headaches die down.
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Postby Ogredude on Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:20 am

Funny thing, promotions...

I gave my oath because it is the way I've always tried to conduct myself. I'd never given any thought whatsoever to being knighted, I just wanted to be in a group of like-minded individuals, and to formally affirm my personal code of ethics.

Then, all of a sudden, I get a note from Jamie saying I've been knighted. I didn't know I was doing anything worthy of being knighted, I was just being me. **SHRUG** I still have no clue why I was knighted. I am, however, truly honored that the other Knights felt I was worthy of the honor.

I guess what I'm trying to say (badly, I've been up all night...) is that I personally never undertake to be elevated in whatever I do (except jobs, where of course a promotion means more money and usually better working conditions, but that's different). I just try to be myself and be the best person I can, as best as I can, come what may.

Darth, I have to agree with you when you said being a Knight or a Companion in this order isn't a full-time job. I guess actually doing stuff specifically FOR the Order isn't, but living by the oath we all took quite definitely *IS*.

As far as promoting Companions goes, I think the current system works well. On Nightstar (the IRC network I founded and help run), we promote people to IRC Operator status only when we've observed them for a while and have come to the decision that they are people who will put the network first, and who don't want to be an IRC Operator so they can go around saying "look at me, I'm an IRC Operator, aren't I k-rad k00l". Same thing goes here, I feel. Backhand me if I'm wrong.

I guess what I'm trying to say, in my semi-conscious manner, is "Be the best YOU that you can be."

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Postby Darth Paradox on Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:32 pm

Ogredude wrote:I guess what I'm trying to say (badly, I've been up all night...) is that I personally never undertake to be elevated in whatever I do (except jobs, where of course a promotion means more money and usually better working conditions, but that's different). I just try to be myself and be the best person I can, as best as I can, come what may.

Darth, I have to agree with you when you said being a Knight or a Companion in this order isn't a full-time job. I guess actually doing stuff specifically FOR the Order isn't, but living by the oath we all took quite definitely *IS*.


I completely agree. I took the oath in part because it was a good formalization of the way I try to lead my life, and because it's always good to find other people who agree with that. As for the full-time job thing, that's what I said, I think... My point was that unlike the traditional knights of the middle ages, both mythological and real, most (presumably all) of us have a large number of other obligations in our lives, be they school, work, families, or anything else. While we can try to carry out these obligations in a manner best fitting our oaths and our morals, we don't necessarily have a large amount of time to devote solely to the Order for "quests" or whatever requests/requirements for knighthood may exist, and one should not be denied an honor due to that lack of time. The issue comes, then, to what sort of criteria we can set out in the first place. And I conclude that the criteria can be - should be - solely one of personal character, just as the Oath calls for it. As admirable as some other traits may be - bravery, strength, wisdom - demonstration of such things are not a requirement for companionship or knighthood, as I understand it - "merely" (yet often a Herculean task itself) the character to try to be the best person one can, and the attempt to do right in the world.
...I've gotten horribly off track again. Sorta. Point is, since our values lie primarily in the character of the person, our criteria for knighthood should be similarly oriented - "quests" set a requirement, on some level, for personal ability, and since each person's abilities differ, no quest can act as a true measure of a person's qualities, save for the daily trials and tribulations of life.

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I agree, with a caveat

Postby pawnman on Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:20 pm

While I agree that a one-size-fits-all quest may be out of the question, it would be a benefit to post, for lack of a better word, classes of actions that will get you knighted. Perhaps a compendium of current knights and what deeds they performed (thus perserving the history of the knights and setting an example for young companions like meself!). I'm not all about the status and promotion, but I am curious as to just how valorous/laborious/helpful a given deed needs to be. Medieval knights had fairly clear-cut paths to promotion, and all I'm suggesting is that the knights do something in that vein. Thoughts?
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Postby Josh the Aspie on Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:00 am

While I personaly think that it would be nice to be knighted, that's not exactly why I joined either. And I must say I doubt that I realy deserve it. My life has yet to be valerous -or- in stalwart support of others. I'm currently working towards a college degree, and trying to learn more social skills and how to find my fit with society (not nessisarily by fitting 'in', but perhaps I can fit someplace on the proverbial side). I try to help where I can (stoping if I see a car on the side of the road, or offering support). But I have to admit that at times I've been short with others, or selfish... because I just can't fit everything I'd like to on my plate... and sometimes continued requests for continued activities get... well... tiresome. I'll be the first to say that I'm still more a page than a squire. It'll be a while before I'm compairing my squirehood to knighthood. (weither someone else admits their more page than squire before I do is another story).

I think that promoting people based on continual consistant honorable behavior and simply upholding the principles of the order is very acceptible. I do think, though, that if there is a question as to weither someone deserves promotion, perhaps due to no one living in that knight's area, the leadership might ask the person several questions about their life, their persuits, ect. If the leadership is still in doubt, they might -offer- the knight a quest. The knight can say no of course, with reason or without... the quest might be so simple as compleating a life goal that would help others that the knight has been puting off, or might involve suggesting the knight atempt to remidy certain situations localy. Of course this would take some work on the part of the council, and might not fit the knight. *shrugs*

Sorry for the disjointed and self-contradictory nature of my thoughts. I'm not sure where I stand on this position... but I thought I'd make my thoughts known, in case anything in them might be of use.
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Postby Silver Adept on Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:18 am

Sounds like a good system, Josh. We'll certainly keep it mind, so that we can figure out what's going on... at some point. Somewhere... eventually... (argg....)

No matter. And judging from the large CI to KI ratio that we have, I'd say most people agree with you... they joined to have something to strive for, and have no concerns about advancement in the organization. It's just beauacracy, anyway. (snicker...)
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Postby Josh the Aspie on Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:42 am

Well, I'm glad you liked my idea Silver. ^_^ (um.. nothing else to post. bleck.)
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Postby zodo on Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:12 pm

I didn't join the order with advancement in mind either, but I am curious about what was done by those who got promoted to merit their promotion. Any way we might see what they've done, if for no other reason than Curiosity. As a side benefit, they can also have their deeds appreciated and recognized by the whole of the Order.

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Postby Silver Adept on Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:33 am

Well, a lot of it was probably arbitrary... putting people in who came up with the idea, provided space n' such. Although, in Sir Howard the Bandman's case, one of the Knights vouched for his character through having a long-standing friendship with him. A large part of it is simply getting noticed, I suppose. We could do stuff like "Performance Reviews" (evil lightning striking-music) where we ask Knights and Companions to contribute records of their deeds (names will be removed and/or changed to protect everybody) so that we can build a base of good deeds, and if we notice a pattern or something like that, we might be able to pick out candidates for promotion... ya now, the good deed database doesn't sound like a half-bad idea, anyway...
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Postby Josh the Aspie on Thu May 08, 2003 3:30 am

Over-all, I agree that a list of good deeds (simply for that purpose) is a good idea. Members can contribute for a purpose other than self-promotion, and doing so will remind them of the good deeds they have done. Acording to my psychology book, this should re-enforce their feelings of being good people, and spur them on to greater hights. As would viewing the records of good deeds of others. On the other hand, some people may be intimidated by the deeds of others, or under-play their own good works. Over all, I think it's a good idea though.
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Postby Mistrunner on Thu May 08, 2003 12:14 pm

I don't know about a good deed list. It sounds useful, but I know that I, for one, would probably not use it. When I do a good deed, I tend to forget I did it afterwards, and if I did remember, I don't think I would publicly proclaim it. Besides, I'd hate to see it turn into some kind of "Who has the bigger d***?" contest. It almost seems to cheapen good works, in my mind, if you feel the need to then publicly proclaim that you did good. Just my feelings tho.

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Postby Josh the Aspie on Fri May 09, 2003 11:15 am

Mistrunner wrote:It almost seems to cheapen good works, in my mind, if you feel the need to then publicly proclaim that you did good. Just my feelings tho.
Tony


Silver's suggestion included removing refferences to names, so that it would just be a database of good deeds, not of who performed them. That way people could get ideas on good deeds they might be able to do that they just hand't thought of. Possibly be inspired to greater hights. The only people that would know who did the good deeds would be those manning the database. I understand the reason for your hesitation, and I have the same reason... but as long as the names aren't known, I'll honestly feel more free to contribute, and see the reasons for doing so as more pure. Alot of the good things I've done I've wanted someone to know that they where done, even if not by who.
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Postby Silver Adept on Sat May 10, 2003 5:46 am

I agree totally with your hesitations. Not necessarily because of size contests, but because I don't necessarily wnat my name on the deeds I do. Just make it more mysterious that there are indeed people who do good... and if no names are known, who knows, they could even be in your area!
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