KOJ "cells" an interesting idea.

The noble Order of the Knights of Jubal traces its origins back to the Year Two Thousand A.D., when a group of distinguished persons of good and true character, founded the order to promote chivalry and honour. The order takes its name from our leader, Alexander Jubal McRae, who on two (so far) occasions has been seriously injured, in one case fatally, defending an innocent woman from attackers.

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Postby Jamie on Thu Nov 29, 2001 11:40 am

This very good idea was posted in another thread. I thought it deserved its own thread and so here it is. Thanks Rei for the suggestion!<P>---------------------<P><I>re the real world office
i was thinking today *gasp shock horror* about WWII and the Resistance movement. I was thinking about how they operated a very large (geographically) movement with extremely limited resources and operating parametres.<P>they did it by using cells. People would work in their cell, with one person acting as link (ie: accepting correspondance with other cells and communicating outwards their cells actions and activities)<P>and I was thinking how great and simple an operational model it was. No central authority, no grand hierarchy. In the modern world, the Internet provides an excellent means by which cells could communication with other cells.<P>to some extent, we tend to do so already. I've noticed "cells" (to continue the metaphor) working on open source programming (KnightChat, was it called?). We've got "cells" working on child pornography, "cells" working to produce a book on chivalry.<P>now, there are problems, true. But perhaps the "cells" organizational structure may suit a group of this nature better than a central office structure, at least in a practical, operational sense. Let the Knights come together in Conclave quarterly or half-yearly or whatever schedule works, to discuss the overall direction and focus of the organization, but let the cells work on whatever interests the members or reflects their aptitudes.<P>just rambling ideas here, trying to stimulate conversation. Ideas?<P>Rei</I><P>---------------------<P>Again, thanks Rei!<P>(Sir) Jamie, KCI in the Order of the Knights of Jubal
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Postby Treespeaker on Fri Nov 30, 2001 2:52 am

Read Heinlein's <I> The Moon is a Harsh Mistress </I> before doing anything with cells...the model in it is way better than any other I've read about.
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Postby Kanaeda Kuonji on Fri Nov 30, 2001 4:39 am

Oh Lord in Heaven, that's awesome! I love that idea. We can communicate over chatroom or e-mail. I'll gladly join in!<P>------------------
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Postby Silver Adept on Fri Nov 30, 2001 5:41 am

In a Lucy-like fashion...<P>THAT'S IT! <P>A perfect idea and design. I think Rei's got it.
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Postby Rei on Sat Dec 01, 2001 1:39 am

*wanders into the forum and blinks*<P>ooh, lookie here <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P>glad you like the idea, guys. it was just one of those stray random thoughts that streaks through the cosmos and occasionally intercepts a neuron<P>but, as i think i noted in the original post, the actual logistics of it still need to be worked out<P>perhaps...sorry, forgotten the name *blush*...could give us a synopsis of the 'cells' in the Heinlein book. No such thing as too much research <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P>but if ppl are cool with the CONCEPT, perhaps we can start bashing out the basics of the actual implementation? Perhaps someone from the Open Source Cell could mosey over and tell us if they're still developing that KnightChat idea I remember reading about months ago and tell us whether their ideas for communication mesh with our theories? <P>Hmmm, neurons sparking, ideas forming....wheee, i love it when my brain kicks into gear. Let's get those ideas flowing!!<P>Rei<P>waiting for comments, good bad and indifferent, from her fellow Companions and Knights
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Postby Silver Adept on Sat Dec 01, 2001 10:05 am

Summaries, please! A good logistic idea is something that we need to have happen. <P>As for the Open Source cell, I think the currently missing Sir Greg was in charge of that.
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Postby Silver Adept on Mon Dec 03, 2001 7:20 am

Certainly sounds interesting. <P>Ann Arbor based Michigan cell... trying to take care of whatever I can, but will likely be hampered by lack of a vehicle.
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Postby TKarrde98 on Mon Dec 03, 2001 12:26 pm

Why not let each cell define itself according to the uniquenesses and individual needs of the area? For example a cell in Eastern Washington would focus on rural lifestyles and the needs for service there with additional work in Spokane or Pullman, while a cell in Western Washington would focus on the I-5 corridor Metroplex and urban needs.<P>I say charter each cell to follow certain guidelines and then define itself from there, just as a Boy Scout Troop in the foothills of Colorado's Rockies defines itself much differently than a Troop in central New York City, and the international scouting organizations are all remarkably different from each other.<P>All those in Eastern WA interested, give me a buzz! <A HREF="mailto:gmontoya_01@hotmail.com">gmontoya_01@hotmail.com</A>
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Postby Rei on Tue Dec 04, 2001 2:26 am

cells need not be totally geographically-based, and people can participate in more than one cell...well, that's the way i see it<P>so, for example, i may belong to the W. Aust. cell, AND the book cell...<P>how might we keep track of this? because if i need to access a person with a certain knowledge, i'd need to know who to call on? Perhaps a members-only accessible 'white pages' listing out members, their cell-"affiliations" and their interests?<P>just more ideas<P>rei
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Postby Silver Adept on Tue Dec 04, 2001 5:45 am

That would be interesting. However, changes to the website would have to go through Sir Greg. He's been away for a while now. Not to say that it isn't a good idea, just one that may be put on hold for a minute or two. <P>Maybe someone could also keep a hard-copy list of same for the moment.
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Postby Bridgeman on Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:40 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rei:
<B>
perhaps...sorry, forgotten the name *blush*...could give us a synopsis of the 'cells' in the Heinlein book. No such thing as too much research <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'll handle it, as a Heinlein fan <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>The idea is the same as a trinary tree. The root of the tree is 3 people acting as a controlling triumvirate. Each one then has 3 people beneath him/her, and each of those 3 has 3 below them.... In this manner, when one member is captured, he only had contact with his cell (2 other people), the cell below him (3 people), and one person from the cell above him. In this manner, the capture of one person could only result in the immediate loss of 6 others. Within the time those 6 may be picked up, damage can be contained and ties cut quickly and efficiently.<P>As for me... Well, anyone out there in Central Illinois, say Bloomington, Champaign-Urbana, Decatur, or Springfield area?
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Postby TKarrde98 on Sun Dec 09, 2001 12:36 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>so, for example, i may belong to the W. Aust. cell, AND the book cell...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Speaking of which, what ever became of Kanaeda's book?
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Postby Rei on Sat Dec 15, 2001 5:38 am

okay, okay, please bear with me here...i've had a go at formalizing some of the ideas bouncing around in my head. This is first draft, fresh from my cerebral cortex to your monitor. I'd adore ideas, feedback, feelings, whatever. This actually ties in with my ph.d project, so i'm really interested in what you all have to say.<P>and, fyi, these are all my opinions. nobody was hurt in the creation of these opinions. i'd like to thanks the academy...<P>~~~~~~
Draft one 16/12/01
<u>Definitions</u><P><I>Conclave </I>
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Postby Rei on Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:22 am

re: cell mapping, i wasn't thinking in terms of a spatial map. Rather, simply a list of functioning/active cells (and their participants?).<P>that way, if something was needed, they could scroll through the list and go 'aha! that's what i needed'<P>would help prevent things like doubling up/redundancy.<P>as for listing participants, that may be a bigger job -- esp if you start noting interests...but as the Order grows, it may be useful to have a 'white pages' of sorts...<P>just throwing ideas around. thanks for your feedback <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P>Rei
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Postby TKarrde98 on Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:54 am

I like it mostly as you proposed it. I think there's a general lack of complexity that will come from the process of putting it into practice, but the structure is great.<P>As for mapping, YES!!! I like it very much-- the virtual map, and for geo- cells, a realspace map, too.<P>One thing I think would be wise would be a <I>protected</I> web site. That is, when members join, they are given password access to an area of the website where sensitive information is kept, i.e. contact information. There, we could even use a forum like this one for cellular communication, with minimal fear of "invasion" except from expert hackers.
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Postby Silver Adept on Sun Dec 16, 2001 8:29 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rei:
<B>
<I>Questions for further discussion</I><P>Do cells need to create open communication practices? The threads on the board are easy for any member to access, but what about if the communication takes place on email? Should the cell be required to keep logs which would be available to the cell officer/any registered member of the Order? Or are the reports sufficient (we do tend to work on trust in other areas, should this be no different?) What about in cases of misconduct? In that case, do members outside the cell have the right to access the logs and records of communication and activity?
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Keeping logs of activity would be a prudent measure as far as I'm concerned. That way in case of any possible misconduct, (God(dess) forbid!) it would be easy to present the evidence for the members to make an informed decision on. Logs could be seomthing as easy as allowing access to e-mail lists created by cells for communication to those who truly would need the information.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Would there be a need to maintain a kind of
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Postby Rei on Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:00 am

*grynz* amazing the things we assume...i assumed we were talking about a secure web, too <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/wink.gif"><P>but as to the practical implementation of that idea, at least, we'd have to ask our trusty webbies...<P>as for the simplicity of the design, that is deliberate. I've found the more complex you describe things, the more things there are for you to trip over when you apply it for real<P>Rei
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Postby Rei on Sat Dec 22, 2001 4:51 am

hi Jim<P>my ph.d is looking at future possibilities of democracy and democratic participation on the Internet...that very broad area covers things such as how groups such as this one organize and manage themselves using flat hierarchical computer mediated communications technologies (like this board, for instance!)<P>as for the discipline, i'm stuck in the school of media and information, which is under humanities jurisdiction, but my thesis is actually more of a futures thesis (concerned with hypothetical and possible futures) than anything<P>ahh, the joys of being a transdisciplinarian!<P>any further questions, just ask! My ego loves talking about my work<P>Rei
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Postby Jim Brockman on Sat Dec 22, 2001 10:26 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rei:
<B>who's enjoying herself...any guesses what her ph.d topic is *weg*</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not really, though I am curious. Also curious as to the field the phd is in
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Postby TKarrde98 on Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:44 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>my ph.d is looking at future possibilities of democracy and democratic participation on the Internet...that very broad area covers things such as how groups such as this one organize and manage themselves using flat hierarchical computer mediated communications technologies (like this board, for instance!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So perhaps you would like to formally head the project and get it off the ground-- under the permission of the Conclave. I propose an "emergency" meeting of the Conclave to determine this, or if it's simply periodic and random, a regular meeting SOON. We've been rolling this around long enough-- it's time to get it off hte ground and in the air!<P>Jim, an excellent point. I think Geo's are equally useful, as there are then physical witnesses to what the knights are doing. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> There is, asw Rei said somewhere up above, plenty of room for overlap of cells.
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Postby Rei on Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:52 am

hi Jim, thanks for giving it a look through. My replies to various comments below:<P>I'd be more than happy to take on some sort of coordination role (if only because, if anyone else did it, i'd be pestering them to death with questions on how its working, ect!)<P>re: local vs interest -- I mentioned local for intiatives that have a geographical focus. As a rough example, say that if we had a group of Sydney-based members, they may have wished to have formed a local cell to organise aid and relief following the bushfires in that region. This doesn't preclude ppl from OUTSIDE that region from joining in, it just delinates the focus of that cell.<P>re: recording keeping (RK from now on!) -- will there be any uniformity, do you think, on how the RK will be chosen? Should it be the responsibility of the person that forms the cell, or should the cell ask for a volunteer, or should they select someone they see as most appropriate to the job? Me personally, I think that volunteers would be the best, most workable way to go. But I think that RK would be a vital job, and so whoever did it would need to be made aware that it is not a responsibiltity to be taken lightly.<P>As for RK providing proof -- excellent suggestion! I hadn't thought of it along those lines before.<P>I'm all for getting this off the ground, ASAP.<P>As TKarrde said:
"So perhaps you would like to formally head the project and get it off the ground-- under the permission of the Conclave. I propose an "emergency" meeting of the Conclave to determine this, or if it's simply periodic and random, a regular meeting SOON. We've been rolling this around long enough-- it's time to get it off hte ground and in the air!"<P>Can I second that? Knights, may we ask your opinion now?<P>thanks for all the thoughtful feedback and suggestions<P>rei
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Postby Jim Brockman on Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:49 pm

This has already probably been said, but Rei asked for my opinion.<P>I like the idea.<P>What I would recommend is we do this based on interests.
It is highly likely that the people in the same geographical locations would want to work on different projects.<P>Also since this whole thing is (so far) done on the Internet the actual physical location of cell members is unimportant.<P>Each individual can be in as many cells as they have the time and interest to participate in.<P>Cell sizes would be dependent on the nature of the projects. A project requiring a lot of specialized tasks (like coding) would have a small membership, while the cell that handles collecting clothes for homeless shelters would easily accommodate many members.<P>
Each cell should have a Records Keeper. The RK would be responsible for reporting back to the rest of the organization.<P>Leaders (If we deem it is necessary to have one) should be chosen by the members of the cell.<P>Also, there should be semi-permanent cells that last longer than individual projects.
Perhaps, the Coding specialists would form such a cell.
A data collection team could be a cell to continually update the roster, make the
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Postby Silver Adept on Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:44 am

Hmm.... that sounds like a very workable idea. I'm all for it, and if Rei wants to lead/organise some, I'm also willing to let him do that.
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Postby Rei on Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:18 am

woohoo<P>*does a boglap of honour around cyberspace*<P>maybe we can get organized and start doing things! Thanks guys<P>rei
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