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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:30 am
by Silver Adept
Thanks... you've triggered an earlier discussion that we had, and now I realize that I should have seen it coming. <P>Oh, well, live and learn. <P>As for questioning those with greater wisdom, that's a neverending quest. <P>So... new question. To return to an older topic, brought about before CNN focused on New York... what do you think about the supposed connections between video games, music and violence? (That the first two beget the latter)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2001 11:59 am
by Seldom
Video games and violence, ooo, what hogwash. One of the silliest things I've ever heard. If a human being is dull enough in the mind to take cues from a digital simulation of fantasy, not even the good old fashioned schizophrenic variety, then they were doomed to take such actions anyway. Once again, ignorance and uncertainty combined with the actions of a few stupid, short-sighted and/or iconoclastic psychotics has damaged the sociological growth of the United States. ::sigh:: <P>Music, on the other hand, I have no problem seeing as a cause for such things. Music is, after all, a baseline form of hypnosis. If a person is bombarded by intense imagery and extremist instruction while in a semi-hypnotic state, they do become more prone to act in such a manner. Music has always been used as a mood-alteration tool. Go into any public place and you will probably hear calming, easy-listening-type music playing. Because 94+% of the population is soft to subliminal auditory control. I play Kenny Loggins in my restaurant, and the people inside remain calm and quiet and easy to manage. It works, it has since the fifties. Then again, in the same vein, take an "agnst-filled" discontented spoiled kid in a suburb with nothing better to do than sit alone in his dark room and feel sorry for his dark self because he was never taught the social skills to get a stable girlfriend and keep a job and have friends, and add to the scenario an album or three of music about rape, murder, violence, drugs, and vengeance for the mistreatment the world has heaped upon you, and I have no trouble seeing such a result. Likewise, take an honest-to-truth malcontent, an iconoclastic militant personality, or a criminal profile waiting to happen and add the same music, sure, it's just another bit of weight on the scale. Music is extremely powerful, and the unwitting are easily swayed by it.<P>But, by the laws vested so thoroughly in the United States, can they be honestly censored? No. Can they be stopped? No. The United States government long ago forgot that art is an expression of the life of people. The music wouldn't exist if there weren't a bugfuct twisted audience to listen to it, and the only difference there would be without the music would be that they would be even more frustrated by their lack of self-expression. If the music bothers the public so much, the public should do something about the isolated, disassociated, under-socialized, over-exposed dipshits the public has been raising for the last twenty years. It's not Rob Zombie or Marilyn Manson or INsane Clown Posse's fault that the mentally underdeveloped or understimulated take their music too seriously or too far. If it were, then we could blame the anicent chinese for inventing explosives, the wright brothers for inventing flight, the germans for truly creating the main battle tank and Caine of the bible for inventing murder. The creation is not evil, the action is. The inspiration is not evil, the action is. I heard some of the truly hard, twisted music a friend of mine listened to. There's nothing there you can't find elsewhere, and that's their whole point. In the end, it comes down to the music being an expression of society. If the music is the most obvious sign of the problem, it will be the easiest to attack, but it will not change the society. When people learn that, to create change, they must cause change, not attack the effects of old change, they will solve these dilemmas, until then, they're just blowing smoke.<P>
Ranting I am again... Hope that came out coherent. <P>-Seldom
Knight of the Three Orders.<P>"The only people I know who listen to that devil music are evil drug addicts who rape girls and smoke dope in their cars..."<P>"Wow, I never knew you thought such things of me."<P>-My roomate's mother, and me.<P>
"Only a weak will or a sick mind is driven to action without its own intention. The weak cannot be blamed for their weakness, only taught strength. The sick cannot be blamed for their illness, only made well. Deliberate evil is neither weak, nor an illness, it is as deliberate as real good, and as easily noticed."
-Darius, Reflections.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2001 4:33 am
by Silver Adept
Sounds interesting, Seldom... and worth thinking over again. <P>So here's another question. Is knowldege necessarily power?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2001 11:27 am
by Seldom
Knowledge and power... Well, I could really ramble on that one. Power is difficult to define. Honestly, so is knowledge. But in the end, the summary of points is a simple phrase all Knights are taught.<P>"Ignorance is the only enemy, knowledge is the end of ignorance."<P>If power is the ability to overcome obstacles, defeat rivals and better one's own standing in the world, then knowlegde is a key element in its structure. But knowledge is meaningless if unused or uncontemplated. Knowing something is not the same as understanding it, or being able to apply it. All of these are equally important, and often overlooked.<P>So, no, Knowledge is not power. Not on its own. Power is only part knowledge; it is made also by widom, action, and, in my mind, virtue. But virtue is an entirely different discussion.<P>-Seldom
Knight of the Three Orders.<P>"Knowledge is Power."
-traditional<P>"Power is the end goal of all activities, for without power a man is without the ability to maintain himself."
-Anon, Epics, I am Machiavelli's Prince.<P>"What is the use of knowing, if you do not use your knowledge? What is the use in teaching if my students never seek to understand? What is the use of information at all if no one cares to know it?"
-Veritas, Lord of Merciful Truth.<P>

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2001 9:06 am
by Silver Adept
Well, you mentioned it, and so I'll fire. <P>How do the Three Orders define virtue? And is it truly it's own reward?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2001 11:15 am
by Kanaeda Kuonji
Yes, and how do you hold those who willingly withhold knowledge? Do they do the right thing in their actions, or do they ultimately cause sorrow?<P>------------------
Rodney Dean, CI of the Order of the Knights of Jubal.<P>"The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death." --Oscar Wilde<P>"Ardente veritate/Urite mala mundi. (Burn with truth/Scorch the world of evil.)"- Translated from "Liberi Fatali" theme of Final Fantasy 8<P>TCM Code: D++K++++Denise+++L+++ Bf--M----C++T++B+ Nem a--US

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2001 6:41 am
by zodo
Referring back to the post Seldom made on the 9th of November, I think he points out what I think is one of the biggest problems in American Society today: the unwillingness to take responsibility.<P>It's one of my pet peeves, and one I am all to willing to rant about at length. I will, however, try to keep this brief. <P>It sickens me every time I hear about someone blaming something outside themselves for their own actions. Whenever something bad happens to a person, they start looking around immediately for someone to sue. This has led to the overabundance of frivolous law suits in this country. <P>In addition, it also sickens me to see parents demanding that more and more laws be passed to protect their kids, while they leave the kids to be babysat and raised by the television/VCR or by video games. What's more, there is so much crying and wringing of hands whenever some kid does something anti-social in a very public manner, that nobody looks at the base of the problem: Nobody hase ever told the kid what is right and what is wrong. The shades of grey that are encouraged by modern society, as well as its overpermissiveness have led to a generation of kids who do not know basic things like respect for other people's property, as well as respect for other people themselves.<P>Now, it's one thing to rant about a subject, and another entirely to do something about it. Of course, I intend to teach my own kids right and wrong, and not be overly permissive, if I ever have kids. But in the mean time, what I do is try to encourage my friends who do have children, as well as my family, that teaching kids right and wrong is not a bad thing. Thankfully, these people listen to me.<P>I just sometimes wish I had a way of getting the message through to more people.<P>-Zodo, CI

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2001 8:26 am
by Seldom
Virtue is as undefinable as Honor, and our literture and training suggests that virtue is much less mutable than Honor, but no more easily taught or named. If a person desires to be virtuous, they will act as they feel they must. If a person cares nothing for virtue, they will have none of it. As for your second query...<P>"Let the virtuous seek not reward, not wealth or reputation in the name of their intent. The virtuous will know their reward when they sleep soundly at night, content with their actions. The virtuous will know their reward when they are treated with kindness by those who have seen their virtue. There is no reward for virtue, there is only the quest that virtue is... "
-Testament<P>
You ask complicated question, Kanaeda. <P>Knowledge is difficult to suppress. Humanity is, by and large, an immensely resourceful and adaptable thing, and they will reason out, reverse-engineer, and puzzle over anything you give them until they understand it, or at least until they lose interest. This tendency makes it difficult to hide what you know from others.<P>To willingly withhold information is a complex thing. There are times when it is a greivous mistake, such as when sharing that information can prevent or lessen suffering or improve life. Other times, however, knowledge is dangerous, and must be guarded. Not all people use their knowledge responsibly, and not all people use their knowledge at all.<P>As I am part of an Organisation that is, by and large, a covert one, I am a constant perpetrator of secrecy. Withholding knowledge of our presence from most allows us to operate free from useless scrutiny and unnecessary regulation.<P>Secrets are an integral part of human psychology. The key is judging the need for knowledge against the danger of what you know. If trust wins, share, if danger does, build trust until it wins.<P>
I apologize for my brevity, but I am ill, and busy. Keep the questions coming, it keeps me thinking.<P>-Seldom
Knight of the Three Orders.<P>"No matter what I tell you, remember that everything I wrote was true when I wrote it. I make no garuntees for the moment after."
-Darius, Reflections<P>"Your thought for the day is that a dog will always see a grey sky..."
-Darius, Conversations.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2001 8:30 am
by Seldom
Virtue is as undefinable as Honor, and our literture and training suggests that virtue is much less mutable than Honor, but no more easily taught or named. If a person desires to be virtuous, they will act as they feel they must. If a person cares nothing for virtue, they will have none of it. As for your second query...<P>"Let the virtuous seek not reward, not wealth or reputation in the name of their intent. The virtuous will know their reward when they sleep soundly at night, content with their actions. The virtuous will know their reward when they are treated with kindness by those who have seen their virtue. There is no reward for virtue, there is only the quest that virtue is... "
-Testament<P>
You ask complicated question, Kanaeda. <P>Knowledge is difficult to suppress. Humanity is, by and large, an immensely resourceful and adaptable thing, and they will reason out, reverse-engineer, and puzzle over anything you give them until they understand it, or at least until they lose interest. This tendency makes it difficult to hide what you know from others.<P>To willingly withhold information is a complex thing. There are times when it is a greivous mistake, such as when sharing that information can prevent or lessen suffering or improve life. Other times, however, knowledge is dangerous, and must be guarded. Not all people use their knowledge responsibly, and not all people use their knowledge at all.<P>As I am part of an Organisation that is, by and large, a covert one, I am a constant perpetrator of secrecy. Withholding knowledge of our presence from most allows us to operate free from useless scrutiny and unnecessary regulation.<P>Secrets are an integral part of human psychology. The key is judging the need for knowledge against the danger of what you know. If trust wins, share, if danger does, build trust until it wins.<P>
I apologize for my brevity, but I am ill, and busy. Keep the questions coming, it keeps me thinking.<P>-Seldom
Knight of the Three Orders.<P>"No matter what I tell you, remember that everything I wrote was true when I wrote it. I make no garuntees for the moment after."
-Darius, Reflections<P>"Your thought for the day is that a dog will always see a grey sky..."
-Darius, Conversations.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2001 8:35 am
by Seldom
Virtue is as undefinable as Honor, and our literture and training suggests that virtue is much less mutable than Honor, but no more easily taught or named. If a person desires to be virtuous, they will act as they feel they must. If a person cares nothing for virtue, they will have none of it. As for your second query...<P>"Let the virtuous seek not reward, not wealth or reputation in the name of their intent. The virtuous will know their reward when they sleep soundly at night, content with their actions. The virtuous will know their reward when they are treated with kindness by those who have seen their virtue. There is no reward for virtue, there is only the quest that virtue is... "
-Testament<P>
You ask complicated question, Kanaeda. <P>Knowledge is difficult to suppress. Humanity is, by and large, an immensely resourceful and adaptable thing, and they will reason out, reverse-engineer, and puzzle over anything you give them until they understand it, or at least until they lose interest. This tendency makes it difficult to hide what you know from others.<P>To willingly withhold information is a complex thing. There are times when it is a greivous mistake, such as when sharing that information can prevent or lessen suffering or improve life. Other times, however, knowledge is dangerous, and must be guarded. Not all people use their knowledge responsibly, and not all people use their knowledge at all.<P>As I am part of an Organisation that is, by and large, a covert one, I am a constant perpetrator of secrecy. Withholding knowledge of our presence from most allows us to operate free from useless scrutiny and unnecessary regulation.<P>Secrets are an integral part of human psychology. The key is judging the need for knowledge against the danger of what you know. If trust wins, share, if danger does, build trust until it wins.<P>
I apologize for my brevity, but I am ill, and busy. Keep the questions coming, it keeps me thinking.<P>-Seldom
Knight of the Three Orders.<P>"No matter what I tell you, remember that everything I wrote was true when I wrote it. I make no garuntees for the moment after."
-Darius, Reflections<P>"Your thought for the day is that a dog will always see a grey sky..."
-Darius, Conversations.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2001 8:38 am
by Seldom
Virtue is as undefinable as Honor, and our literture and training suggests that virtue is much less mutable than Honor, but no more easily taught or named. If a person desires to be virtuous, they will act as they feel they must. If a person cares nothing for virtue, they will have none of it. As for your second query...<P>"Let the virtuous seek not reward, not wealth or reputation in the name of their intent. The virtuous will know their reward when they sleep soundly at night, content with their actions. The virtuous will know their reward when they are treated with kindness by those who have seen their virtue. There is no reward for virtue, there is only the quest that virtue is... "
-Testament<P>
You ask complicated question, Kanaeda. <P>Knowledge is difficult to suppress. Humanity is, by and large, an immensely resourceful and adaptable thing, and they will reason out, reverse-engineer, and puzzle over anything you give them until they understand it, or at least until they lose interest. This tendency makes it difficult to hide what you know from others.<P>To willingly withhold information is a complex thing. There are times when it is a greivous mistake, such as when sharing that information can prevent or lessen suffering or improve life. Other times, however, knowledge is dangerous, and must be guarded. Not all people use their knowledge responsibly, and not all people use their knowledge at all.<P>As I am part of an Organisation that is, by and large, a covert one, I am a constant perpetrator of secrecy. Withholding knowledge of our presence from most allows us to operate free from useless scrutiny and unnecessary regulation.<P>Secrets are an integral part of human psychology. The key is judging the need for knowledge against the danger of what you know. If trust wins, share, if danger does, build trust until it wins.<P>
I apologize for my brevity, but I am ill, and busy. Keep the questions coming, it keeps me thinking.<P>-Seldom
Knight of the Three Orders.<P>"No matter what I tell you, remember that everything I wrote was true when I wrote it. I make no garuntees for the moment after."
-Darius, Reflections<P>"Your thought for the day is that a dog will always see a grey sky..."
-Darius, Conversations.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2001 7:09 am
by Seldom
Virtue is as undefinable as Honor, and our literture and training suggests that virtue is much less mutable than Honor, but no more easily taught or named. If a person desires to be virtuous, they will act as they feel they must. If a person cares nothing for virtue, they will have none of it. As for your second query...<P>"Let the virtuous seek not reward, not wealth or reputation in the name of their intent. The virtuous will know their reward when they sleep soundly at night, content with their actions. The virtuous will know their reward when they are treated with kindness by those who have seen their virtue. There is no reward for virtue, there is only the quest that virtue is... "
-Testament<P>
You ask complicated question, Kanaeda. <P>Knowledge is difficult to suppress. Humanity is, by and large, an immensely resourceful and adaptable thing, and they will reason out, reverse-engineer, and puzzle over anything you give them until they understand it, or at least until they lose interest. This tendency makes it difficult to hide what you know from others.<P>To willingly withhold information is a complex thing. There are times when it is a greivous mistake, such as when sharing that information can prevent or lessen suffering or improve life. Other times, however, knowledge is dangerous, and must be guarded. Not all people use their knowledge responsibly, and not all people use their knowledge at all.<P>As I am part of an Organisation that is, by and large, a covert one, I am a constant perpetrator of secrecy. Withholding knowledge of our presence from most allows us to operate free from useless scrutiny and unnecessary regulation.<P>Secrets are an integral part of human psychology. The key is judging the need for knowledge against the danger of what you know. If trust wins, share, if danger does, build trust until it wins.<P>
I apologize for my brevity, but I am ill, and busy. Keep the questions coming, it keeps me thinking.<P>I apologize for my delay in posting but I have had technical difficulties.<P>-Seldom
Knight of the Three Orders.<P>"No matter what I tell you, remember that everything I wrote was true when I wrote it. I make no garuntees for the moment after."
-Darius, Reflections<P>"Your thought for the day is that a dog will always see a grey sky..."
-Darius, Conversations.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2001 7:06 am
by Silver Adept
Sometimes the answer is as cryptic as the question. Means that the question and the answer are both right on target. <P>Let's see... I'm out of archetypal questions, so it's time to return to a different arena. <P>How do you feel, Seldom? (Taking into account recent events from the last time I asked...)

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2001 8:00 am
by Kanaeda Kuonji
I guess I have yet another question:<P>What of those who wish to live in the past rather than the present. Recent events have seen this happen, sadly with tragic results. How should one handle those who refuse to change?<P>"Change is everywhere. We grow, we age, and we die. Without change, there is stagnation, and with stagnation, decay."<P>--Me (I'm still working on that book, no worries!).<P>------------------
Rodney Dean, CI of the Order of the Knights of Jubal.<P>"The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death." --Oscar Wilde<P>"Ardente veritate/Urite mala mundi. (Burn with truth/Scorch the world of evil.)"- Translated from "Liberi Fatali" theme of Final Fantasy 8<P>TCM Code: D++K++++Denise+++L+++ Bf--M----C++T++B+ Nem a--US

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2001 8:08 am
by Kanaeda Kuonji
I guess I have yet another question:<P>What of those who wish to live in the past rather than the present. Recent events have seen this happen, sadly with tragic results. How should one handle those who refuse to change?<P>"Change is everywhere. We grow, we age, and we die. Without change, there is stagnation, and with stagnation, decay."<P>--Me (I'm still working on that book, no worries!).<P>------------------
Rodney Dean, CI of the Order of the Knights of Jubal.<P>"The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death." --Oscar Wilde<P>"Ardente veritate/Urite mala mundi. (Burn with truth/Scorch the world of evil.)"- Translated from "Liberi Fatali" theme of Final Fantasy 8<P>TCM Code: D++K++++Denise+++L+++ Bf--M----C++T++B+ Nem a--US

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2001 8:12 am
by Kanaeda Kuonji
I guess I have yet another question:<P>What of those who wish to live in the past rather than the present. Recent events have seen this happen, sadly with tragic results. How should one handle those who refuse to change?<P>"Change is everywhere. We grow, we age, and we die. Without change, there is stagnation, and with stagnation, decay."<P>--Me (I'm still working on that book, no worries!).<P>------------------
Rodney Dean, CI of the Order of the Knights of Jubal.<P>"The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death." --Oscar Wilde<P>"Ardente veritate/Urite mala mundi. (Burn with truth/Scorch the world of evil.)"- Translated from "Liberi Fatali" theme of Final Fantasy 8<P>TCM Code: D++K++++Denise+++L+++ Bf--M----C++T++B+ Nem a--US

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2001 11:43 am
by Seldom
I am well, all-considered. I have been coordinating a massive shift of resources and personnel in my Order to new functions and, in some cases, completely new regions of influence for certain people. It has been quite challenging. I am, as always, tired, and still occaisionally frustrated my inability to function in some respects. But Life proceeds, and therefore, so do I.<P>Thank you for asking.<P>-Seldom
Knight of the Three Orders.<P>"Define Truth."<P>-Darius, Reflections.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2001 5:22 am
by Silver Adept
That's good to hear, actually. It means that you're returning to as close to normality as you can. <P>Abrupt jump-shift in questioning, but this one really is something that I've been thinking about. <P>Have you ever considered teaching as a profession? You seem to do a pretty good job of it. <P>"Define Truth."
-Darius, Reflections.<P>"Show me the Lie." -S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2001 7:10 am
by Silver Adept
Amen, brother. College is giving me some problems because I wasn't taught the methods of absorbing lots of information in a little amount of time. Natural intelligence can only cope for so much. And I find out that I wasn't taught some of the really important stuff to know when you get into college. <P>*sigh* The mandatory education in the United States, even in my podunk-suburbanite WASP area was insufficient for what I ahve now. I can only hope that I can adjust. <P>So, as one question leads to another... what should be done to imporve the quality of the educational system?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2001 7:43 am
by Kanaeda Kuonji
I am with Silver Adept on this one, but I have another question as well.<P>People place emphasis on knowledge, but as a rule tend to avoid explaining the value of wisdom in its use. Is there a way to assist in this?<P>------------------
Rodney Dean, CI of the Order of the Knights of Jubal.<P>"The mystery of love is greater than the mystery of death." --Oscar Wilde<P>"Ardente veritate/Urite mala mundi. (Burn with truth/Scorch the world of evil.)"- Translated from "Liberi Fatali" theme of Final Fantasy 8<P>TCM Code: D++K++++Denise+++L+++ Bf--M----C++T++B+ Nem a--US

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2001 11:58 am
by Seldom
Thus far the only real answer I have ever found to either of your questions is to have a good teacher. The people who taught me the important things in life taught me about wisdom and understanding, focus and will, truth and perception. They taught me the things I needed to teach myself. Sadly, such teaching requires individual attention, and parents can no longer raise their children to provide them with such attention, they are too busy working to support themselves. It is a strange dichotomy; the quality of life improves while the quality of people declines. Adveristy builds strong character, I have always been told. With the immensity of the population and the complete lack of existing worthwhile structure, improving the system would require tearing it down first. It will be a long time before we see anything that drastic applied to the most important future resource in the United States.<P>-Seldom
Knight of the Three Orders.<P>"What have you learned today, class? you?"<P>"That you have nothing more to teach me."<P>"What?"<P>"I have learned that there is nothing left for you to teach me."<P>"How dare you!"<P>-Conversation leading to Veritas' expulsion from Colorado publin schools. Veritas is now in possession of three Philosophae Doctorates; in Philosophy, Anthropology, and Sociology. He sent copies of them back to his former principal. He received no reply.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2001 12:16 pm
by Seldom
Kaneada:<P>Refusal to live in sync with life, and to instead exist in a form of semi-fantasy is a common coping mechanism. While it is sometimes effective, more often it is a crippling form of self-imposed ignorance. I cannot overcome my confusion and grief if I refuse to admit its existence. Unfortunately, such cases must be handled carefully, as attempting to bring such issues to light can often drive them further below the surface. Awareness of the person in question and their mode of thought is crucial. Bringing someone out of themselves using their own mode of thought is the best method I have found, but it must be handled carefully, as missteps are worse than not trying at all.<P>
Silver:<P>Yes, and if there were a system in the United States by which a person could receive a useful and enlightening education in an open and supportive enivronment with an adaptable curriculum and a realistic goal, I would be glad to be a part of it. However, the standards for education in this country have veered so far away from the useful and practical and into the tedious and absurd that I refuse to even approach it. What teaching I do I do personally, to very few students, where I can provide them with an honest form of feedback and attention. The human mind deserves no less, and classroom learning is death to the creative mind.<P>-Seldom
Knight of the Three Orders.<P>
"I am a pathological liar."
-common example of a paradox-form contradiction.<P>"I can speak naught but truth, but in saying so I speak nothing but lies."
-Darius, Reflections, first entry.<P>"In wisdom you will find immortality, and in eternity you will find the contentment that is mortality. Enlightenment lies between, where the soul is at peace, and the mind may quest forever."
-Darius, Reflections, final entry.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2001 7:33 am
by Silver Adept
True. I guess I should be glad that I had a parent who stayed home to raise my siblings and myself. Perhaps I learned quite a bit more than one who did not have a parent to instruct them. I see that more people are relying on the educational institution to make our children fit for the world around them, but they don't want the institutions to teach all the important things that the children truly do need to know. <P>The quality of life improves, the quality of people declines. It should be a contradiction, but this one is working fine. <P>Is there a way that we can stop the "inevitable" decline of society that everyone is griping about?