Ok, some of you have complained about it being too slow, so,

The noble Order of the Knights of Jubal traces its origins back to the Year Two Thousand A.D., when a group of distinguished persons of good and true character, founded the order to promote chivalry and honour. The order takes its name from our leader, Alexander Jubal McRae, who on two (so far) occasions has been seriously injured, in one case fatally, defending an innocent woman from attackers.

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Postby Jennet on Sun Jul 29, 2001 2:30 am

I don't think it's very fair of you to tell me what I think. I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and I still believe what I said. I don't think you're respecting what I've said at all.<P>The reason I would do it isn't because of me at all. It's because I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that I could not live with myself if I chose otherwise. With your version I would only end up killing myself in remorse afterword.<P>------------------
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Postby Zolgar on Sun Jul 29, 2001 2:59 am

Jennet, the problem is you keep trying to predict the future..<P>Things change, you might think you couldn't live with yourself, but, the human mind rationalizes even the worst deeds possable.<P>You can say probly wouldn't, most likly wouldn't, almost deffinantly wouldn't, or any of those for would, but, you cannot say deffinantly, you are not there, you are not truely facing it.<P>And, if you're right and you'd kill yourself with remorse later.. Still, you may not think of that if the times comes, you may think of nothing more than saving yer own ass.<P>I am not saying what you think, I am saying you cannot say exactly what you will do in the future.. I mean, I can't even assuredly say what I'm going to do tomorrow, let alone what I would do in a situation that I have never been in and (with any luck) never will be in.<P>I am saying that when faced with the loss of their life, people do irrational things, they don't think the way they do before hand..<P>In short, unless you're freakin' perfect, you cannot be 100% sure of what you would do.. Hell, I like what Seldom said on that one: <i>"But I cannot know the answer until the moment, and I can only live in the moment. When I get to each, I will answer them for you. ::smiles:: If i come back to answer at all."</i><P>You're human, get over it.<P>------------------
To look death in the face
To end life, to take life
To damn this infernal race
Slay a man, slay his wife
Why, God, is it so simple
To destroy all we know
To make this world a temple
unto the demise we sow
And yet, it is so hard
to bring even the slightest
change to raise the standard
and, for once, give the world rest<P>(Okay, so, I'm not a good poet.)
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Postby Jennet on Sun Jul 29, 2001 9:10 am

I find you VERY rude, and I've had it up to here with you.<P>I've done my best to contribute to this board, but I've had enough, thank you very much.<P>------------------
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Postby Atlas_v1.1 on Mon Jul 30, 2001 5:42 am

Considering that this seems to be tthee discussion that caused so much furore here, I think I will add my $0.05. If this damns me, so be it.<P>The above discussion seems to be a clear-cut case of two people speaking to each other and not understanding a word either says. Zolgar was stressing that as a human it is impossible to say anything with certainty. Jennet kept claiming she could and did, or so it at least seemed. The problem arose because Jennet saw it as insulting that Zolgar would not accept her arguments. However, as Zolgar said, no such arguments were posted - all we got was 'because'. In his final post, just above this one, Zolgar became exasperated, and it showed.<P>In this matter, definitive answers DO NOT exist. Nobody can say, yes, always, I would always step in. Always is a mighty big word. Neither can anyone say they would never step in. That is the problem of being kept to your word. You might not be able to live up to an 'always' or a 'never'.<P>That considered, I don't think there is any reason to become angry on either side.
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Postby Jennet on Mon Jul 30, 2001 6:37 am

I think it's very rude to ask a question with two apparently possible answers, and then tell everyone that no matter which of those two answers they pick, they are wrong.<P>I also think it's incredibly presumptuous to tell me what I will do in any given situation, whether it's what sort of hair gel I will put on tomorrow morning or what I will do in any other type of situation. He has absolutely NO knowledge of me and no basis for making a decision. I know myself better than he knows me and have a lot more evidence for my decision. I think that's clear enough.<P>I may not know everything about myself, but I know that like Milton's Satan, I have a "fix'd mind." I don't let things go. Ever. Whether that's impossibly draconian, hopelessly Medieval, or just plain silly doesn't really make much difference. I remember every time I've ever done something dishonorable and I can almost not bear thinking of them. And those were relatively small things, like <i>inadvertently</i> cheating on a test--writing down an answer that someone was stupid enough to say out loud. Things like that are engraved on my conscience. Letting someone die for any reason whatsoever would be unbearable. As far as I'm concerned there would be no decision to make.<P>My "argument" is my greater knowledge of my own character, that you do not and cannot ever have.<P>Now, stop telling me what I can and cannot know about myself. Stop telling me what I can and cannot do. Stop telling me what I can and cannot think, because I do not appreciate it. <P>I am offended by your choosing to bait this board. I am offended by your telling me who and what I am, when you have never met me and likely never will. I am offended by your barely-disguised trolling.<P>Good day.
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Postby Zolgar on Mon Jul 30, 2001 10:07 am

Jennet! PAY ATTENTION TO THIS WORDS I'M ABOUT TO TYPE!<P>
I am NOT saying what you will or will not do! I am NOT sayign I know you better! I am saying that you just don't know something untill it comes to pass.. Even something as simple as what type of gel you'll put in your hair in the morning.. Maybe you can, right now, say without a doubt it will be (insert whatever brand you always use here) and, 90% of the time, hell, even 99.9% of the time, you're right.. But, what if that one vanishes, and you can only find (insert some other brand)? <P>Sometimes the future plays tricks on us, sometimes our mind plays tricks on us. We just don't know for a 100% posative fact what will will do, I can't even be positive I'll finish typing this post (granted, if you're reading it, I did), I may keel over and die midword.<P>There is only one sure thing about the future: It will happen. It may be not happen for everyone, it may not happen for anyone, but, there will still be another second, another minute, anotherhour..... Atleast untill God finally has mercy on this planet and destroys it.<P>Your "argument based on better knowledge of you" is lacking any fact, anything that gives logic or reason. That's all I ask for, is 'how can you say you are 100% positive of what you will do?' Don't tell me that you couldn't live with yourself afterwards, people have often done what they, or others, thought they couldn't (If you'd like, I'll give you examples.), don't give me that you know yourself better than I do. I don't deny that, I deny that you can know exactly how you will think in a situationlike that, proove to me you can, and I'll believe you.. But, I need proof first.<P>If you will provide this proof, contact me one of three ways: Email (cat_man007@yahoo.com), ICQ {23503280), or AIM (Yverthel<P>---------<<<<< change of subject bar<P>As for your comment of "<I>but I know that like Milton's Satan, I have a "fix'd mind." I don't let things go. Ever.</I>": If this is the case, ths s going to take a while..<P>I'm too much like that myself.......<P>(P.S. I'm not trolling, trolling is down right trashing someones beliefes, saying certain things in innapropriate manners to get people mad at you to start a major argument. I did not intend this to piss people off, or to anger them. I intended it to see how they thought, and so far, you are the only one who has proved adamant on these things.)
------------------
To look death in the face
To end life, to take life
To damn this infernal race
Slay a man, slay his wife
Why, God, is it so simple
To destroy all we know
To make this world a temple
unto the demise we sow
And yet, it is so hard
to bring even the slightest
change to raise the standard
and, for once, give the world rest<P>(Okay, so, I'm not a good poet.)<p>[This message has been edited by Zolgar (edited 07-30-2001).]
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Postby Seldom on Mon Jul 30, 2001 10:31 am

::exits stage left, avoiding the daggers and envenomed words being hurled.::
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Postby Jamie on Mon Jul 30, 2001 10:50 am

This will be the final post of this thread. As moderator I am closing the tpic. There is no pojnt in arguing over a thread no one really cares about and I am afriad it will just go on. Sorry about this.<P>Take care,<P>Jamie <P><P>------------------
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Postby Zolgar on Mon Jul 30, 2001 11:14 am

Rude? for what? Stating a simple fact that so far everyone has agreed with me on?<P>How many times do I have to explain that I'm not saying you WOULDN'T do it, I am just saying that you cannot say for a fact what you would do?<P>And, I might not seem so rude if you actually brought up anything against the fact, other than just the dislike for my way of thinking.<P>Have you even considered what I said? Or, are you ust hellbent that I'm wrong, because you know everything there is to know about yourself, and you'll never surprise yourself? if that's how you think, again, you're wrong, we, as humans, never really stop changing, and we never know our trueself, we can think we have ourself totally figgure out, and then find out wrong.<P>Sheesh, why do I even bother trying to explain reason?!<P>------------------
To look death in the face
To end life, to take life
To damn this infernal race
Slay a man, slay his wife
Why, God, is it so simple
To destroy all we know
To make this world a temple
unto the demise we sow
And yet, it is so hard
to bring even the slightest
change to raise the standard
and, for once, give the world rest<P>(Okay, so, I'm not a good poet.)
Zolgar
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Posts: 113
Joined: Mon May 28, 2001 11:00 pm
Location: city: Denile. State: Confusion. Country: Music

 
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