Easy Way to Help Out Anywhere

The noble Order of the Knights of Jubal traces its origins back to the Year Two Thousand A.D., when a group of distinguished persons of good and true character, founded the order to promote chivalry and honour. The order takes its name from our leader, Alexander Jubal McRae, who on two (so far) occasions has been seriously injured, in one case fatally, defending an innocent woman from attackers.

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Postby Treespeaker on Sun Jun 10, 2001 7:13 am

Guys, I know this is going to sound like a sales pitch, but it's not. I don't want you to buy anything at all. All I want to say is that if you go to "thehungersite.com" (that is the exact URL, I double-checked for typos, so just copy and paste), you will be given the oppurtity to click on a button and automatically donat a cup or so of free food to starving countries. It takes maybe two minutes, and you can click once a day. I've been doing it for a year, and I've never once got any spam that could possibly have come as a result of it, so you aren't making any commitments at all at all if you click here. If you have the time or inclinatio, I encourage you to go to the other five links avalibl at the top of their page; the procedure for donations of various services to various causes is identical. Total, it takes maybe five minutes (depending on your connection speed, although there's nothing too graphics-intensive...even my 56kps dial-up can handle it in that time), and you can help out a lot without any effort at all.
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Postby Atlas_v1.1 on Mon Jun 11, 2001 5:57 am

Sites like that just have me wondering a few things:
1) How do they get the money to send all this food to hungering people? Banner ads?
2) What organization put it up there? And can we trust that they live up to their claims, or are they just hoaxers and moneymakers like so many others?
3) Does sending food to hungering people make good help? After all, you might want to try and prevent them from suffering famine in the first place.
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Postby Zen Of Jazz on Mon Jun 18, 2001 7:24 am

I can not speak to their honesty, or their method of operation, but I can tell you that I've seen this website in operation for something like 2-3 years now... If it wasn't legit, it'd get closed down.
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Postby Treespeaker on Thu Jun 21, 2001 7:06 am

To Atlas:
On your 1), yes, in a word. Banner ads and the merchandise they sell in their little online store. They always post a little "please help our sponsors out" click-through thingie when you donate. I never do, but apparently enough people do to make it worth while. I think Jazz already answered your 2) well enough--they've been arond long enough to spawn similar organizations without getting shut down, so I'd say it's a safe bet they're legit.
Your 3) arguement/question distresses me, I must confess. This is very much the "I can't do everything so why do anything?" attitude we, or at least I, try to prevent. Yes, it is wonderful to make it so that nobody needs to be hungry. It will also tke a very long time. Why let them starve in the meantime, when you can help out by taking two minutes out of your oh-so-valuble day to click on an ad? It's not like we can't pursue two goals--ending hunger and helping the hungry already existing--at the same time. So yes, I would say it "makes good help."
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Postby Atlas_v1.1 on Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:45 am

Build a man a fire and he's warm for the night. Teach him how to build a fire, and he'll be warm whenever he needs to be.<P>While sending food is all good and well, and does help, (and don't think I don't encourage it!), doing only that doesn't help. It's treating a symptom, not a syndrome. Hunger in Africa (and other places, too) mostly comes from a number of causes, all of which are attributable to human failure (civil/tribal war, deforestation, any number of reasons). No innocents should suffer for this, but much aid sent to these countries doesn't reach said innocents who need it worst. It ends up with rebels, militias, governments, whatever. I do not want to sponsor <I>them</I>. After all, who wants to help the culprits? (And here I'm talking totally apolitically; what people rebel against, and whether the government is just or not does not interest me in this case.)
So, then. Can we A) guarantee that a significant portion of the help actually reaches the needy, B) guarantee that it's not the only treatment of the problem? You don't treat appendicitis with painkillers...
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Postby Treespeaker on Fri Jun 22, 2001 5:59 am

Who's we, friend? No, I can't guarentee you that we, as in you and I, are doing anything to help these people. Myself, I'll be headed over to Africa for missionary work the first summer of my majority (only adults are allowed to go in person, unfortunatly), and until then I'll be helping with the fundraisers that get people over there, but I can't speak for you. So let me ask you: What are you, rather than "we," doing to (and I quote) "guarantee that a significant portion of the help actually reaches the needy"? If even the chance that clicking on a button once a day might not help, even though it says it will, is enough to make you say "forget it, it's not a sure thing so why do it," then I have to wonder whether perhaps you are letting your cynicism blind your compassion. Yes, sending food only helps one small part of the problem. Yes, not even all of the food might make it there. So we shouldn't help at all? After all, I'd sure want the painkillers until they got the appendix out of me. Wouldn't you? <P>Baisically, it comes down to the question of whether or not you're willing to beleive that there might actualy be an Internet group out there who does what they say they will with no strings attached. If you can't take an unhedged bet; if you can't rely on someone else's promise to do good, then by all means propose a solution that doesn't rely on anyone ekse's help. Until then, I'm going to keep clicking, and I hope that other people will as well. After all--is an honest charity really that inconcievable?
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Postby atlas_tiger on Fri Jun 22, 2001 9:27 am

OK i know that i am new to this...but to let yall know that people r being helped. i can not help in the way on going over there....but here in my own back yard there r poeple in need.,,,, For one thing my dad ...has some problems that he has....he has been going to a place called the club house...it is a place for people to go and work out there problems....he has been going for years.....and they have helped him and lots of otheres.....i dont have a computer or lots of money ...so i go there and help....i know there is not much i can do but helping otheres even if it is just saying hello and giveing a smile ...well i think that everone can do that.....<P>------------------
Tiger Atlas (Tony) CI
Life is a dream and it has to end some time so why not live it to the fullest<P>
ooo and atlas_1.0..... i think that you r right on what you said...about teaching otheres how to do for there self is better then doing it for them .......<p>[This message has been edited by atlas_tiger (edited 06-22-2001).]
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Postby Atlas_v1.1 on Mon Jun 25, 2001 4:45 am

While it is true that symptom treatment is important until the syndrome is treated, what I was saying is, that treatment of the symptoms alone won't help one bit. And if treating the symptom actually strengthens the syndrome, well, maybe it's time to come off those painkillers?<P>To explain further what I said, I am not being cynical. I am looking at the situation as it looks in Africa, in the places where hunger is happening. And I'm seeing humans cause problems for other humans. As long as these are in power, what we do to help the innocent and needy is more likely to help those who cause the problem. And as said, I don't want to help them.<P>And past that... So many people look at Africa's civil-war plagued countries and see them needing help. But maybe, like in Yugoslavia, there is only two alternatives, leaving all else as insignificant: Either stomp down and utterly crush all armed resistance (leaving them as little more than colony states...), or let them fight to the bitter end. Both alternatives are draconian, yes. But some times, 'helping' will just delay the problem.
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Postby Treespeaker on Wed Jun 27, 2001 12:49 am

Say Atlas..you would't happen to be a Republican,would you? It's just that whole "they keep screwing up, so let's spank them and then take over" attitude in the last paragraph that's got me wondering...and on the subject, how does "Either stomp down and utterly crush all armed resistance (leaving them as little more than colony states...), or let them fight to the bitter end." fit in with the idea of teaching men how to build fires? Unless that metaphor was meant literally, of course. Because it seem to me that stepping in and beating the crap out of any government that we don't like would hardly encouage them to adapt and reform; rather, it would cause resentment and hotilty (re: the Middle East). That's of course in addition to saying "well, you don't know how to manage your people, so we'll just take them away now." Not really the sort of image we as a nation want to put forward, is it? Although I will admit that "Empire of the Greater USA" has a nice ring to it. So if you realy are convinced that it is impossible to help people who suffer without helping people who cause suffering a well, short of wiping out the sufferers and the oppressors simultaneously--then don't click already. I don't really care, I'm not profiting from your clicking (At all! No fraud,no conpiracy, no nothing! Can you beleive it??) But I think it's awful paranoid of you not to.
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Postby Manhattan on Wed Jun 27, 2001 1:55 am

some thoughts on doing good and giving... bear with me <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>the problem i have with click-on sites is that it promotes a distance from the problem and lets people get away with less than they could do. it's easy to click through, and i do, but i hate to think that for some people, that's it for them for the day. <P>the distance issue is a big one for me. our society likes our poor and hungry far away from us so it's nice to click to help people starving in Africa. on the other hand, i haven't found a click-to-donate that helps out the kids panhandling at the bus station. Africa's a great cause because it's so easy to sit back from far away and help all these poor cute kids who don't inconvenience us at all. it's harder to get people to help out the toothless 300lb mentally disabled man downtown who drools on your sweater on the bus and shouts at lamp posts. no one even wants to look at him. i'm not saying that we shouldn't be helping everywhere we can, but we should be careful not to let society put the "tidy-solution" blinders on us. <b>it's a good idea to question these things even as we do them, and i mean to question, not criticize or devalue.</b><P>is there a "right" way to help out? i don't think so. to each their own. how do i help out? i don't do a lot of the usual stuff, though our family does "donate at the office" from my partner's paycheck. i clean my friends' houses when they're having a hard time for one reason or another, i give free daycare on a temporary basis to anyone i know who needs it so no one has to turn down a job or miss school because they don't have a safe place to send their kids, also... i make sure that no one gets away with not writing poetry because they're not "good enough", i help out at an amateur art board to make sure that kids have a place to come and grow and feel good about expressing themselves, and other such "online" volunteer work. <P>it's so important to remember that the people who are visibly poor or hungry aren't the only ones who need our help. we're surrounded by people who are starving in mind and soul. whether it's a smile, holding the door, sharing your art, encouraging someone else, or any number of other gracious acts we can do during the day, we can help create a world in which people are good to each other and no one has to feel adrift or lonely. <P>and finally... make sure you've hugged your friends and family, petted your dog/cat/ferret, and told everyone around you that you love and appreciate them before you click the button. it's a good habit to get into. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> and it makes the world a better place.<P>~mattie, off on a ramble as usual...
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Postby Zolgar on Thu Jun 28, 2001 1:02 am

One little note, I know of this place (Diablo2 guild I was in had a link ot them), I (used to atleast) get spam from them all the time..
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Postby Manhattan on Thu Jun 28, 2001 1:32 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Josh the Aspie:
<B> For your info, not all 300 pound mentaly disabled disabled males are homeless. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>actually, the guy i am referring to isn't homeless. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"> he was just more of an example of the fact that it's easier for the average yuppie to give money to little African children than to a big noisy guy like him. he's irritating and in your face and it's harder for people to feel compassion for him, they just want him to go away. i admit it, i feel it too, especially when i'm intimidated. we have a LOT of "odd" people in town because we are home to one of the finest mental hospital/rehab programs in North America and the outpatients and day-passers love to hang in the down town area or ride the busses.<P>~mattie
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Postby Atlas_v1.1 on Thu Jun 28, 2001 3:39 am

Treespeaker, don't assume that someone is republican (or even American, Goddess protect me) simply because they question something. Any intelligent human being can and should question everything and anything. Unquestioning attitudes are the root of practically all problems we have. The word 'unthinking' says it all.<P>I am not saying that there is a conspiracy, although there might be - you never know. I'm not saying it's a fraud - although it might be, you never know. I AM saying that I don't want to help the people who CAUSE the problems in the first place. If that stance is impossible to understand, I don't want to be understood.<P>And as for my remark on 'stomping down', well, you're the American. You said I meant (which I don't) beat up everyone who you don't like and take over their shows (which sounds like the US foreign policy, anyway). What I in fact meant was that in some cases, you have to act decisively and dish out damage, or step back entirely. In Yugoslavia, indecisive action created the worst humanitarian catastrophe Europe has seen since WWII. If noone had acted, the war had been over in a few years. Yes, innocents would have been killed, but in wars, they always do. If everyone had acted in concert, and actually gone through with putting down that war, the death toll and destruction had ben minimal. Instead, we had a civil war raging in Europe for almost 10 years. I',m still not sure it's over.<P>Don't make assumptions without basis. To me, being assumed an American Republican is almost as bad an insult as calling me a Nazi. (No, I don't like Republicans. Sue me.)
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Postby Josh the Aspie on Thu Jun 28, 2001 9:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Manhattan:
<B>some thoughts on doing good and giving... bear with me <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>it's harder to get people to help out the toothless 300lb mentally disabled man downtown who drools on your sweater on the bus and shouts at lamp posts.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>For your info, not all 300 pound mentaly disabled disabled males are homeless. Example: My good late friend Jay was one of them. It's a little known fact, due to lack of advertising, but many cities have a program called Bethpage, where mentaly disabled adults go to live, when their family's cant take care of them any more. Alot of these people have realy forceful personalities, and it's often a kick to be around them. So if you have one in your city, and you can... help out!
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Postby Treespeaker on Mon Jul 02, 2001 1:04 am

Well, everyone's made pretty valid points, so I guess it just comes down to click if you want, don't click if you don't want. I've realized (to my admitted pleasure) that this is a post full of devils's advocates...but good-hearted ones at least. I do agree that click-throughs are bad in that they encourage people to just click through and nothing else, but I guess I'm of the opinion that the sort of person who clicks through and says "enough" is the sort of person who wouldn't do anything if we didn't make it easy on him, so it's good to get him doing that much, and it gives us one more thing we can do in addition to our other efforts.
I also agree that too much concern about everyone else's problems and not enough about our own country's is a definate problem that many charities do unintentionaly worsen. There isn't much we can do to change the focus of click-through sites, but we can do a lot to help out ourselves--note that the July topic for EI is Help the Homeless, rather than Feed Africa. So, thanks for all the feedback, and I hope all of you are willing to go click-through even if it doesn't realy do all that much in the grand scheme of things. And I really shouldn't, but I feel compelled to point out to you, Atlas, that if you're from the other side of the puddle, odds are the American foriegn policy you seem to think so little of has bailed your country's little butt out of not one, but two, count 'em, two world wars. So even though I'm not really in favor of it, let's not mock America's militaristic side, hm? See you all later!<p>[This message has been edited by Treespeaker (edited 07-02-2001).]
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Postby Atlas_v1.1 on Mon Jul 23, 2001 8:43 am

Treespeaker, I'm not going to take your words ill here. I really do not want to. But I am averse to saying that the US has bailed Denmark out of anything at all. A small bonus, a shortening of a war, yes. But what the US has done in the past is no excuse for what it does today. I have my opinion. I feel I have a good reason for it. I'm not going to discuss it here, as this is not the forum for it.<P>Suffice to say, that I judge by what a person -does- rather than -has done-. This goes for countries as well. And if a country does wrong in my eyes, I view that country accordingly. Is this wrong of me? I find it goes very well with the principles of Justice and Mercy.<P>Remember the past, but act on the present.<P>------------------
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Postby Gustav Snarp on Thu Aug 09, 2001 7:36 am

It's interesting that you bring up US foreign policy here. Let me start off by saying that the US definitely bailed out Europe's collective butt twice. Anything can happen in war, and trying to second guess the outcome if one factor were removed is a bit silly, but the odds are that Germany would have won either of those wars if the US had not intervened. But it goes deeper than that. US foreign policy did not create the mess in Yugoslavia, that mess has existed for far longer than ten years. Perhaps it is easily forgotten that World War I was started with the assasination of Archduke Ferdinand by a Serbian nationalist? Right, the same kind of Serbian nationalist that has been accused of warcrimes in the former Yugoslavia. The same civil war started World War I, I hardly think that US foreign policy can be blamed, although post WWII treaties dividing up Europe certainly didn't help. then there is the fact that US foreign policy is no different than the foreign policy of so many European nations that spawned the US. The only reason that they aren't still asserting that policy is that, to be blunt, the US kicked some serious butt and altered Europe's ability to exercise it's influence. That doesn't mean I approve of US forein policy, I don't, but I think it is a bit arrogant to blame the US so readily as if European nations should not share the blame. Look at the starvation in Africa that began this post. If Europeans had never colonized Africa and forced our ways upon the native inhabitants, they wouldn't be starving now. What we have done is prevent them from being able to continue the subsistence hunting and gathering that were their way, so now we have to send them humanitarian aid to keep them fed. And of course, much of the violence in the world is based on European foreign policy as well. England divided up the middle east into nations, when originally it was mostly populated by nomadic tribes for whom those borders were meaningless. Then to make matters worse we all got together and decided to create a Jewish homeland and kick out the Arabs living there. And of course, we all helped to divide up Europe after World War II, creating borders that have led to continued unrest in Western Europe. England also helped to create the artificial border between Pakistan and India that is now being fought over. And I won't even get into Northern Ireland. Much of the violence in Africa as well as in South America is fueled by the activities of US AND British corporations, particularly oil companies. No, the US is far from blamesless, but after all, we only learned from our European ancestors. <P>OK, sorry if that sounded harsh or insulting, if you're American or European you shouldn't take it as an insult to you, but as a wake up call to look at how our leaders are really shaping the world. Oh, and just to be equal opportunity, Australia's treatment of Aboriginals has been abominable. Hows that for alliteration?<P>------------------
What you do may seem terribly unimportant, but it is terribly important that you do it anyway. - Mahatma Gandhi<p>[This message has been edited by Gustav Snarp (edited 08-09-2001).]
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