Coats of Arms of the Knights

The noble Order of the Knights of Jubal traces its origins back to the Year Two Thousand A.D., when a group of distinguished persons of good and true character, founded the order to promote chivalry and honour. The order takes its name from our leader, Alexander Jubal McRae, who on two (so far) occasions has been seriously injured, in one case fatally, defending an innocent woman from attackers.

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Postby Josh the Aspie on Sat Jun 02, 2001 7:34 am

Is the bestowing of the right to bear a coat of arms a legal bestowing of right? That is to say, are we part of the "Internet" nation and legaly bestowing upon the knights the right to bear arms, which would be hereditary? *researching heraldry and geneology currently*<P>------------------
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Postby TimberBram on Sat Jun 02, 2001 8:02 am

My research in this area leads me to say two things:<P>1) It depends where you live. If the country you live in does not have a College of Heralds (or equivalent), you can get away with quite a lot. Any coat of arms you design is protected by the copyright on artwork and nothing prevents a person from handing it to descendents.<P>2) The whole Eqvites Ivbalis Knighthood and arms are entirely "honourary"; it has no legal existence. As Sir Gregory mentioned elsewhere, since EI exists only on the Internet which has no head of state to complain, we exist in a grey area.<P>Did that help any?<P>Peace,
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Postby Rei on Sat Jun 02, 2001 10:28 am

hi josh<P>care to share those links? I'm also starting to get really involved in those subjects<P>Rei, who discovered that Australia does have a College of Heralds...now, just to find where they are lurking so I can bombard them with questions! *eg*
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Postby Josh the Aspie on Sat Jun 02, 2001 11:33 am

HHmmm, I suppose it does help. Thank you very much.
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Postby Greg on Sun Jun 03, 2001 7:24 am

Hi there!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rei:
<B>Rei, who discovered that Australia does have a College of Heralds...now, just to find where they are lurking so I can bombard them with questions! *eg*</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>We do?!?<P>How did you find that little gem out? I've been looking for one for months!<P>We were bound by the English College up until 1986, but I wasn't aware that an Australian one also existed. If you ever find the details, I'd love to talk to them too.<P>Regards,
Sir Greg<P><P>------------------
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Postby Rei on Sun Jun 03, 2001 9:47 am

well, so far I've only found tantalizing references, such as "countries such as New Zealand, England, Canada, Australia and others who have a College..." {{paraphrased, but you get the idea}}<P>but i'm starting to think they may not have a homepage...<P>*little lightbulb goes off and she smacks her own forehead* DOH! Yellow Pages!<P>*rushes off to check the phone directory*<P>BINGO! Hmm, it must be one of these:<P>Armorial and Heraldry of Australasia
14 Linda Crt
Werribee VIC 3030
Ph: (03) 9741 8738 <P>Heraldic Office Of Australia
PO Box 1098
South Melbourne, VIC, 3205
Australia Ph: (03) 9645 9930<P>Heraldic Office of Australia
P.O. Box 444
Woollahra, NSW, 2025
Australia
or
38 Oxford St
Woollahra, NSW, 2025
Australia
Ph: (02) 9328 1601

anyone near any of these??<P>Rei<P> <P> <P>
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Postby TheVagabond on Sun Jun 03, 2001 10:06 am

My father has his family's Coat of Arms on his wall at home. My only question on this subject would be: do I have the right to bear those arms while he lives? Am I entitled to craft my own Coat of Arms? I know the U.S. has no College of Heralds, but my dad's side of the family is only two generations ago from Portugal, so I'm curious what the "official" etiquette is.<P>------------------
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Postby TheSarahLady on Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:57 am

I was thinking about this quite a bit, not just in this context but as in my life, I am a registered member of the Nothern American chapter of Clan Douglas and thus I have our family coat of arms, but I think if I were to have a seal made of some kind for my personal use it would contain parts of the family seal but be varied slightly, much as in the same manner as each ruler of the clan would adjust the coat of arms slightly to make it his own, if that makes sense at all. <P>I offer this as a suggestion to anyone working on such a coat of arms/crest, or as in the case of Clan Douglas we have a symbol as well as (and different from) our coat of arms (I dunno about others) and something of that sort could be incorporated as well I would think. <P>I hope that might be of some help <P><P>------------------
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Postby Atlas_v1.1 on Mon Jun 04, 2001 7:05 am

Vagabond:
I'd suggest you research the Portuguese way of handling things. The right to bear arms is hereditary by some very distinct rules if my memory serves me right. You may be entitled to a coat, distinguished from that of your father. It depends on how things are done in Portugal - because in the US, there are no real rules. (Heh. Newcomers and iconoclasts the lot of 'em. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif">) Good luck hunting.
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Postby Rei on Mon Jun 04, 2001 10:18 am

thanks for the link, Josh<P>anyone else?<P>as for creating/inheriting...I've seen so many different heralds associated with my family name that I think no-one would mind dreadfully if i added one more *snerk*<P>but i wonder how many heralds came across with people to the various 'colonies' like USA and Australia?<P>Rei, pondering
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Postby Josh the Aspie on Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:43 am

<A HREF="http://digiserve.com/heraldry/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://digiserve.com/heraldry/index.htm</A> <P>I also have the "Family tree maker" v. 5.0 for the geneology and such.<P>-Joshua Tausz<P>------------------
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Tiss a poore minde indeede that kin only finde one way to spelle a worde.<p>[This message has been edited by Josh the Aspie (edited 06-05-2001).]
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Postby BandMan2K on Tue Jun 05, 2001 12:35 am

I've been trying to find my family's coat of arms for 3 years, and i think i found them, at least from what i believe is from Britian since SEELYE is very British.<P>No one else in my family has ever tried to find the family coat of arms. The way I see it, my Family coat of arms will become my Coat of Arms but i'll try to create one for myself that will have some basis on the original.<P>...now if only i could get the information and the art i need...
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Postby Greg on Tue Jun 05, 2001 3:03 am

Hi there!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rei:
<B>
Armorial and Heraldry of Australasia
14 Linda Crt
Werribee VIC 3030
Ph: (03) 9741 8738
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Werribee isn't far from me, but this one sounds more like a design company than a statutory body.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
Heraldic Office Of Australia
PO Box 1098
South Melbourne, VIC, 3205
Australia Ph: (03) 9645 9930<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This one sounds promising, and it's reasonably close to me. I'll give them a call in the next day or two.<P>Many thanks for your research, Rei. And don't feel too badly... No one else though of looking them up in the phone book either! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>Regards,
Sir Greg<P>------------------
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Postby Jim Brockman on Tue Jun 05, 2001 5:02 am

Well, despite the fact that many of us can date our ancestry back to a country and time when caots of arms were awarded does not mean we have the right to those arms. Generally the right was passed to the eldest male. The younger ones would get an edited version.
Also, not every one from those countries and times have or had a coat of arms.
Take me for example, One of my ancestors (the one we take our name from) Worked for Richard the Lion Hearted. This has been carefully traced. However , my research has not uncovered a coat of arms for that gentleman, nor for any of the rest.<P>Fortunately, I live in America, were we don't pay much attention to these things. I can and shall create an authentic appearing Coat of Arms. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/biggrin.gif"><P>One infact that can get approved by the SCA's Colledge of Heralds. (They will be my proof)<P>------------------
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Postby TheVagabond on Tue Jun 05, 2001 10:31 am

I *am* the eldest of my father's children. I just couldn't remember if I had to wait for him to die before I was allowed to claim right to those Arms, or if I am entitled to them while he lives as the Heir Apparent. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif"><P>------------------
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Postby Atlas_v1.1 on Wed Jun 06, 2001 12:38 am

Vagabond: According to typical heraldic rules, you are entitled to the arms, but adding a distinctor. What this distinctor would be in your case depeends on the blazon.<P>As for myself, I am in no way or kind entitled to bear arms. My ancestry is peasants, and the only vague attempt at nobility in the line (some degenerate polish family) hasn't left a male line until this day - my middle name, Kruchov, which comes from them, was bought back some time early last century. So basically, if I want the right to a coat of arms, I either need to be given the Knight's Cross, or get Eqvites Ivbalis approved by H. M. Queen Margrethe as an Order of Chivalry... Neither is very likely. (Though royal sanction for our order would be cool...)
Luckily, coats of arms is not something taken very heavily here. As long as I don't brandish it about to wildly, nobody will mind my having a coat of arms. And in fact, my blazon is: Argent, charged wolf rampant proper - I only use this for medieval reenactment stuff, though. Yet. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif">
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Postby TheVagabond on Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atlas_v1.1:
<B>According to typical heraldic rules, you are entitled to the arms, but adding a distinctor. What this distinctor would be in your case depeends on the blazon.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, I should see if I can get a picture of the original arms so I can run it past our heraldic experts here and elsewhere online.<P>It would be nice to have something of my own added to the family crest.<P>------------------
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