[boggles again]

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Postby Chaos on Wed Sep 26, 2001 12:03 am

Uh? Since when are Val and Don telepathic?
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Postby WolfFur on Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:24 am

Here's MY boggle... how could someone as sweet and good as Bones be related to this scum?
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Postby TCampbell on Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:30 am

I really hate explaining stuff... makes me feel as though I haven't done my job... but if it allows one more person to enjoy the comic a little...<P>Val and Don simply know each other pretty well. Well enough so that Don knows what Val means by "Backooback," and well enough so that Val knows why Don hesitates.<P>They ARE detectives. They're trained to observe...
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Postby The voice in your head on Fri Sep 28, 2001 12:49 am

The most evil people always seem to me the nicest.
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Postby Steve-o on Tue Oct 02, 2001 10:22 am

Here's my boggle: <P>when exactly, between the time she was fiddling with the ropes and the time they got the ropes untied, did Val pass out? Or fall asleep? Or take nitrous? Or swoon?<P>In one comic, she's wide awake, in the next she's out cold.
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Postby TCampbell on Wed Oct 03, 2001 1:37 am

[boggles at his own apparent incompetence at explaining things]<P>Okay. Let's try this one more time.<P>Here's the sequence of events:<P>1. David gets Don and Val to sit in chairs.<P>2. David ties Don, wrapping and knotting ropes around various body parts, including Don's neck.<P>3. David ties Val the same way.<P>4. David politely informs Don and Val that a struggle will pull the ropes around their necks tighter. This would strangle them before they could free themselves.<P>5. David leaves. He does not care whether the detectives will be trapped or dead when he returns.<P>6. Val and Don can't free themselves, that's true. But they can free EACH OTHER, and begin to do so.<P>7. Val manages to untie Don's wrists before the pressure on her neck overcomes her and she passes out.<P>8. Don's other ropes are now loose enough.<P>9. Don frees himself.<P>10. Don frees Val.<P>And we're good!<P>You got that, right? Tell me I was clear that time. Steve-o? Chaos?<P>Somebody?<P>Anybody?<p>[This message has been edited by T Campbell (edited 10-03-2001).]
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Postby TCampbell on Wed Oct 03, 2001 2:14 am

(Note to self: make sure the concluding scenes of "OUT" over in <A HREF="http://faans.com" TARGET=_blank>FANS</A> cause as few boggles as possible...)<P>The ropes around Don and Val were tied to strangle them if they struggled too much. The lack of oxygen was too much for Val, and she passed out.<P>Even Bones might not have been able to escape that kind of trap on her own. So how could Don and Val?<P>Because the two of them were capable of acting as one... each untying the other, despite the risk to themselves. Someone as selfish as David will never understand that.
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Postby Steve-o on Wed Oct 03, 2001 2:20 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T Campbell:
<B>You got that, right? Tell me I was clear that time. Steve-o? Chaos?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, I understood you the first time, T. My point was, I can't read what you <I>intended</I> in the comic, only what is actually put on the page. You shouldn't have to explain events in the forums, they should be self-evident in the comic. <P>The perfect example is the ropes.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>4. David politely informs Don and Val that a struggle will pull the ropes around their necks tighter. This would strangle them before they could free themselves.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No. No, he doesn't. David says, "These ropes won't necessarily <I>strangle</I> you... as long as you don't do anything foolish... like, I don't know, <I>breathing</I> hard."<P>That's it. Nothing about their air slowly being cut off, nothing about a lack of oxygen, nothing about him being a master of shibari and the ropes getting tighter. In fact, there's nothing about their mannerisms that suggest discomfort at all. They look at him defiantly, they scoot their chairs together, they untie the ropes, then she's suddenly unconscious.<P>Sure, now that you explain in the forums what happened, it kinda makes sense. But the way it was actually laid out, the way the comics actually read, it didn't. There was too much missing. <P>You may think that it was "implied" clearly enough, but it wasn't. <P>I can't read your mind. Only what you put on the page. <P>
<p>[This message has been edited by Steve-o (edited 10-03-2001).]
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Postby Gisele Lagace on Wed Oct 03, 2001 3:13 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve-o:
<B>But the way it was actually laid out, the way the comics actually read, it didn't. There was too much missing. <P>You may think that it was "implied" clearly enough, but it wasn't. <P>I can't read your mind. Only what you put on the page.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I guess I should be taking part of the blame here. It is my duty to make sure the art conveys what the script imposes.<P>I'll do my best for things to be clear in the future <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif">
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Postby J. KilLah on Wed Oct 03, 2001 6:03 am

hm... but how can David tie Don to the chair while holding the gunn? Unless he made Val do it.
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Postby MisterP on Wed Oct 03, 2001 9:22 am

How about:<P>Why were they naked?<P>------------------
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Postby Steve-o on Wed Oct 03, 2001 9:46 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T Campbell:
<B>The ropes around Don and Val were tied to strangle them if they struggled too much. The lack of oxygen was too much for Val, and she passed out.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No offense, T, but do you have your mind in text-only? Apparently I'm having trouble reading it. <P>
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Postby Lendorien on Wed Oct 03, 2001 10:02 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve-o:
[B] No. No, he doesn't. David says, "These ropes won't necessarily <I>strangle</I> you... as long as you don't do anything foolish... like, I don't know, <I>breathing</I> hard."<P>That's it. Nothing about their air slowly being cut off, nothing about a lack of oxygen, nothing about him being a master of shibari and the ropes getting tighter. In fact, there's nothing about their mannerisms that suggest discomfort at all. They look at him defiantly, they scoot their chairs together, they untie the ropes, then she's suddenly unconscious.
B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>*Delurks*<P>I don't know, It don't think it was that vague. I figured it out. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/smile.gif">
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Postby Czhorat on Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:58 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MisterP:
<B>How about:<P>Why were they naked?
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gee.. you spend 1 lousy week without reading the forum and everybody forgets how to read. <P>
OK, that might be a bit harsh, but *I* got it just fine. They weren't naked - that was Val's dream (or oxygen-deprivation induced hallucination. Same difference). I haven't checked around here lately because it's been too quiet (and I've not slept much in the past 3 weeks). <P>
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Postby Asha on Thu Oct 04, 2001 6:41 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Czhorat:
<B> Gee.. you spend 1 lousy week without reading the forum and everybody forgets how to read. <P>
OK, that might be a bit harsh, but *I* got it just fine. They weren't naked - that was Val's dream (or oxygen-deprivation induced hallucination. Same difference). I haven't checked around here lately because it's been too quiet (and I've not slept much in the past 3 weeks). <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, same here. I understood it completely.<P>
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Postby AntiEntropy on Sat Oct 06, 2001 1:09 am

Me three.
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Postby AntiEntropy on Sun Oct 07, 2001 6:22 am

Note to Steve-o: just because you don't undertstand something doesn't means it's the author's fault.
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Postby bunnyThor on Sun Oct 07, 2001 10:45 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T Campbell:
<B>
1. David gets Don and Val to sit in chairs.<P>2. David ties Don, wrapping and knotting ropes around various body parts, including Don's neck.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is the part I really have a hard time believing. One guy with a gun, one moderately trussed-up hostage, and two trained detectives. The one guy with a gun somehow manages to tie up both trained detectives in an elaborate display of ropesmanship, presumably with one hand. Why only one hand? Because the other would be holding the gun on the detectives keeping them from trying anything funny. And it's probably the non-dominant hand too that he's using to create this extravagent macrame project. Have you ever tried to tie up an unwilling detective, left-handed, while also keeping track of him, and his partner, *and* your hostage, to make sure they don't try anything funny? Oy.
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Postby Maritza Campos on Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:25 am

Quite easily, actually. You make Val tie Don down, at least his hands. Then you make Val face the wall and say if she makes any movement you'll kill Don. Then you proceed to do all the strangling maneuver thing, which is not really that complicated...<P>But it's just a lot easier with chloroform. Chloroform is your little friend.<P>Maritza
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Postby AntiEntropy on Mon Oct 08, 2001 8:31 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maritza Campos:
<B>Quite easily, actually. You make Val tie Don down, at least his hands. Then you make Val face the wall and say if she makes any movement you'll kill Don. Then you proceed to do all the strangling maneuver thing, which is not really that complicated...<P>But it's just a lot easier with chloroform. Chloroform is your little friend.<P>Maritza
CRFH.net</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm scared now... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspot.com/KeenBoard/frown.gif"><P>
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Postby bunnyThor on Mon Oct 08, 2001 8:49 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maritza Campos:
<B>Quite easily, actually. You make Val tie Don down, at least his hands. Then you make Val face the wall and say if she makes any movement you'll kill Don. Then you proceed to do all the strangling maneuver thing, which is not really that complicated...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Possible, but touchy at best. You would of course have to inspect the ropes closely to make sure that Val didn't tie a nifty little slipknot in there. And what's he going to do if she did? Shoot her? He's already told them he doesn't want to make a big racket, so anything that they can do to delay gives them more time to find a way to get past him and his gun. So he's got to inspect the knots carefully and still keep his eye on Val at the same time. Oh, it's not *impossible*, but it does strain credulity just a touch.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
But it's just a lot easier with chloroform. Chloroform is your little friend.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If he had the chloroform, then he could just suffocate them to death. Come to think of it, he could have killed them both--silently--after they were tied up with the knife. Considering he works at a butcher shop he's probably a little less squeamish than your normal murderous kidnapper about that sort of thing.<P>Instead the evil villain constructed an over-elaborate, slow-motion deathtrap, and then left before the heroes died. That sounds familiar for some reason...
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