AisA wrote:Conspiracy theorists. Scientologists. Humvee drivers. Paris Hilton fans. Britney Spears fans. Goths. Goreans. Amy Winehouse. Crack dealers. Crack smokers. That guy at the McDonald's drive thru window with the Insane Clown Posse tattoos who can never get the order right, speaks in monosyllables and drools when attempting make change for a twenty.
And here's the thing: every one of them has the right to vote. And they all think they're qualified to decide what's best for the country you live in.
That's democracy for you.
Counterclockwise wrote:AisA has basically named a group of people he doesn't think should vote, (because he looks down upon them as inferior?). I think that those people probably would think the same of AisA, or if not, it is at least possible that they may do so. I may not trust democracy a great deal, but I want dictatorship or monarchy even less, and thus to protect my vote, I will protect the vote of every person. Furthermore, I do not have the same prejudices as AisA. And what prejudices I do have, I try to recognize and repress.
mouse wrote:the u.s. in the last 8 years is actually the best argument _against_ your "my vote doesn't matter" argument. gore lost florida by fewer than 1000 votes, and with it, the country. (and if you seriously think a gore presidency would have been no different from a bush presidency, you aren't aware enough of the world outside to be trusted out the front door.) in any event - votes matter.
and the problem with your "do you want a kick in the groin or a poke in the eye" argument is that there is, rationally, no 'neither' option. there will be a government. someone will run it. if everyone who is unhappy because the option they want is not available refuses to vote, what happens is that the people who are actively in favor of demonstrably worse options will chose the government. and it will be awful.
maybe voting won't stop you from getting an awful government, but not voting pretty much guarantees something obnoxious.
Counterclockwise wrote:so, now, what ARE your core interests and beliefs?
Counterclockwise wrote:okay, I'll take that as sarcasm.
What I meant was, you say that one of your core values is truth.
Define truth unambiguously.
Another two are accountability and integrity.
Define them unambiguously.
You don't seem to have a well-defined political outlook from the basis, (beliefs and values), so I venture that you haven't properly defined basic values that you hold as true.
Counterclockwise wrote:I was hoping to change your overall political activism, voting being a secondary matter.
To achieve this, I was planning explore the issue of truth to arrive at several concepts.
The shorter way of arguing to you: Self-appointed politicians have more power over the people. By this, I mean the leaders of activist movements, social groups, business groups, religious groups, etc.
For example, animal activist groups, the pope/christian church, the tobacco lobbyists, etc. are all purely political figures, and they have a lot of power over the people AND over the government.
Therefore, if you want to actively change the laws or customs of your country, become an activist, or a lobbyist, or etc. Find people of the interests as you and lead them to your desired effect.
Voting can be seen as merely a way of supporting the lobbies you believe in.
AisA wrote:But I think we've probably hijacked this thread long enough with our political screeds.
So....who's read any good books lately?
Ian McDonald wrote:As for what I'm reading these days, best you not ask, for it would surely start an even bigger rantfest on my board. Hint: it's about religion!!!
Arantor wrote:I actually like Colfer myself, however the man has not got the right mindset for HHGG.
Ian McDonald wrote:I certainly don't believe Gore or Kerry would have been as bad, though I can't prove it.
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